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Alternative Discussion: Rockola Stepper Issue For 1454Group: alt.collecting.juke-boxes
Discussion: Rockola Stepper Issue For 1454
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NJ Mike
Tue, 26 Apr 2011 15:37:29 -0700 (PDT)
I have a 1544 wallbox and a 1725-8 (maybe a 1725-8-2) stepper. I
replaced the rectifiers, caps and resistors on the stepper. I also
adjusted and cleaned all of the switches, contacts, wiper arms, and
disc rivets on the unit.

For the wallbox, I adjusted and cleaned the page selecton switches and
cleaned up the disc, rivets.

So far so go, but,

The selections on the wallbox are not corresponding to the selections
played on the jukebox. Here is what happened

Wallbox selection -------> Jukebox plays this selection

1 -----> 120
10 -----> 120
20 -----> 120
21 -----> NO SELECTION MADE ( I CAN HERE THE SWITCHES OPERATING)
31 -----> NO SELECTION MADE ( I CAN HERE THE SWITCHES OPERATING)
40 -----> NO SELECTION MADE ( I CAN HERE THE SWITCHES OPERATING)
41 -----> NO SELECTION MADE ( I CAN HERE THE SWITCHES OPERATING)
50 -----> NO SELECTION MADE ( I CAN HERE THE SWITCHES OPERATING)
60 -----> NO SELECTION MADE ( I CAN HERE THE SWITCHES OPERATING)
70 -----> 60
80 -----> 60
90 -----> 80
100 ----> 80
110 ---->100
119 ---->100
120 ---->100

In all cases, the stepper switches would activate when a button was
pressed on the wallbox.

I'm guessing the problem is in the stepper. It would help if I had
some help so I could watch how the stepper operates relative to the
timing relays and unit and group steppers.

I have the manual and schematic for the stepper, and manual for the
wallbox. I've never worked on these before so its a little daunting.

Any help to get me pointed in the right direction would be really
appreciated.

Mike in NJ










Rob In NYC
Apr 28, 2011 - 03:26:48 am EST
On Apr 26, 5:37=A0pm, NJ Mike wrote:
> I have a 1544 wallbox and a 1725-8 (maybe a 1725-8-2) stepper. =A0 I
> replaced the rectifiers, caps and resistors on the stepper. =A0I also
> adjusted and cleaned all of the switches, contacts, wiper arms, and
> disc rivets on the unit.
>
> For the wallbox, I adjusted and cleaned the page selecton switches and
> cleaned up the disc, rivets.
>
> So far so go, but,
>
> The selections on the wallbox are not corresponding to the selections
> played on the jukebox. =A0Here is what happened
>
> Wallbox selection =A0-------> Jukebox plays this selection
>
> 1 =A0 =A0-----> 120
> 10 =A0-----> 120
> 20 =A0-----> 120
> 21 =A0-----> NO SELECTION MADE =A0( I CAN HERE THE SWITCHES OPERATING)
> 31 =A0-----> NO SELECTION MADE =A0( I CAN HERE THE SWITCHES OPERATING)
> 40 =A0-----> NO SELECTION MADE =A0( I CAN HERE THE SWITCHES OPERATING)
> 41 =A0-----> NO SELECTION MADE =A0( I CAN HERE THE SWITCHES OPERATING)
> 50 =A0-----> NO SELECTION MADE =A0( I CAN HERE THE SWITCHES OPERATING)
> 60 =A0-----> NO SELECTION MADE =A0( I CAN HERE THE SWITCHES OPERATING)
> 70 =A0-----> 60
> 80 =A0-----> 60
> 90 =A0-----> 80
> 100 ----> 80
> 110 ---->100
> 119 ---->100
> 120 ---->100
>
> In all cases, the stepper switches would activate when a button was
> pressed on the wallbox.
>
> I'm guessing the problem is in the stepper. =A0It would help if I had
> some help so I could watch how the stepper operates relative to the
> timing relays and unit and group steppers.
>
> I have the manual and schematic for the stepper, and manual for the
> wallbox. =A0I've never worked on these before so its a little daunting.
>
> Any help to get me pointed in the right direction would be really
> appreciated.
>
> Mike in NJ

Mike, since all of my retro installations use wallboxes -steppers and
I have a love/hate relationship with them. I don't have any recent
experience with Rockola systems (did have steppers in a 1496 and 1465
but used Seeburg wallboxes to test them).

It helps to understand how these systems work. The wallbox produces -
two- sets of pulses with a short space between the two.

On Seeburg-Wurlitzer and IIRC Rockola, the letters are sent first. The
lowest letter A would generate two pulses. After a pause a number
would be sent, again the lowest is a 1 with one pulse.

So we select "A1" we should hear two pulses on the letter wheel -short
pause during which the -transfer relay- switches the incoming pulses
over to the number stepper wheel then one pulse followed by the write-
in function.

Some points to look for: Are the letters coming in at a clean stream?
Does the transfer relay key the next pulse train to the number
stepper?
Do the stepper contact wiper wheels STAY in position till write-in is
complete? AND do they -always- return to zero when write-in is done
and the hold coil releases them?

Check the stepper ratchets -those are the flapping plates with a sort
of toggle that advances each wheel. Are they clean and free of grease?
These have to respond within 1/25th of a second so they must be
free. BTW: Those Guardian (maker) steppers are designed for pulse
widths as short as 1/100sec so there is plenty of headroom.

You might try connecting a 28 volt bulb (Radio Shack has them: type#
1819 stock# 272-1119) at the wallbox between the 28v line and the
signal terminal. When you do this and key-in a selection you should
see the bulb blink in a series corresponding to the letter/number
selection. It's hard to follow a large letter/number selection but
lower ones are easy and this will assure that the wallbox is at least
pulsing correctly. I do this whenever I suspect a broken wire from
the box keyboard to the wiper wafer.

It would be helpful if you connect the wallbox at the back of the
machine so you can observe stepper operation.

Let me know how it goes--
Rob



NJ Mike
Apr 29, 2011 - 10:13:25 pm EST
I took a careful look at the stepper today with the connected wallbox
right next to me.

It appears the the stepper is counting the proper number of units
(selection number) and the proper group (page number).

The problem appears to be that the energized coils (labelled A in this
p***o: http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f261/mikeb58/Rockola/?action=view¤t=GroupStepperDetail.jpg)
de-energizes and allows the ratched gear to return to the home (no
selection made) position. Coil B fires correctly and ends up at the
rivetn number corresponding to the correct page on the wallbox.

What is de-energizing these "release coils"? From the manual, it
appears that the stepper unit is reseting too soon.

Any help in understanding the sequence and logic would be
appreciated.

It's frustrating.

The Stepper Manual and p******s of the stepper are here:
http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f261/mikeb58/Rockola/

Mike



John Robertson
Apr 30, 2011 - 01:44:09 am EST
NJ Mike wrote:
> I took a careful look at the stepper today with the connected wallbox
> right next to me.
>
> It appears the the stepper is counting the proper number of units
> (selection number) and the proper group (page number).
>
> The problem appears to be that the energized coils (labelled A in this
> p***o: http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f261/mikeb58/Rockola/?action=view¤t=GroupStepperDetail.jpg)
> de-energizes and allows the ratched gear to return to the home (no
> selection made) position. Coil B fires correctly and ends up at the
> rivetn number corresponding to the correct page on the wallbox.
>
> What is de-energizing these "release coils"? From the manual, it
> appears that the stepper unit is reseting too soon.
>
> Any help in understanding the sequence and logic would be
> appreciated.
>
> It's frustrating.
>
> The Stepper Manual and p******s of the stepper are here:
> http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f261/mikeb58/Rockola/
>
> Mike

If there are electrolytic capacitors in the stepper they need to be
replaced.

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"o*d pinballers never die, they just flip out."



NJ Mike
Apr 30, 2011 - 08:31:35 am EST
John, I replaced everything....caps, rectifiers, resistors.

Mike



NJ Mike
Apr 30, 2011 - 09:20:29 am EST
Just for clarification, this p***o:
http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f261/mikeb58/Rockola/?action=view&c...)
is actually called th "Timing Relay #2" in the RO manual. Its
location can be seen on page 5.

Mike



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