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GPS Causing Truckers to Crash Into Bridges...

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Scott in SoCal...
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:24 am
Guest
Last time on rec.autos.driving, John David Galt
<jdg at (no spam) diogenes.sacramento.ca.us> said:

Quote:
H.B. Elkins wrote:
If my GPS is telling me to take a certain route but the sign says Dead End or
Bridge Out or Do Not Enter, I think I will pay more attention to the sign than
what the voice in my GPS is telling me. Don't these guys know what No Commercial
Vehicles or Low Clearance means?

Sure. But if the first Low Clearance sign is posted on a bridge, after
you've spent the last 20 miles on a narrow road lined on both sides with
telephone poles so it's impossible to turn around, it's a bit too late
for the trucker to avoid the problem.

So how did Truckers avoid this problem before GPS?

Perhaps they tended to stick to the main roads more instead of trying
to find "shortcuts?" Perhaps if they went back to that strategy the
"GPS" problem would go away?
 
Larry Sheldon...
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:34 am
Guest
Scott in SoCal wrote:
Quote:
Last time on rec.autos.driving, John David Galt
jdg at (no spam) diogenes.sacramento.ca.us> said:

H.B. Elkins wrote:
If my GPS is telling me to take a certain route but the sign says Dead End or
Bridge Out or Do Not Enter, I think I will pay more attention to the sign than
what the voice in my GPS is telling me. Don't these guys know what No Commercial
Vehicles or Low Clearance means?
Sure. But if the first Low Clearance sign is posted on a bridge, after
you've spent the last 20 miles on a narrow road lined on both sides with
telephone poles so it's impossible to turn around, it's a bit too late
for the trucker to avoid the problem.

So how did Truckers avoid this problem before GPS?

Perhaps they tended to stick to the main roads more instead of trying
to find "shortcuts?" Perhaps if they went back to that strategy the
"GPS" problem would go away?

One of the things I do every year is buy a new MCA which has a special
marking for approved truck routes and a really neat tables in the front
that shows thing like height and other restrictions.

I use that stuff to plan my route before I ever start out.

I don't have a modern GPS--but I keep thinking it would be interesting
to know how it would route a big truck from South Boston to Big Island, VA.


--
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of System Administrators:
Ex turpi causa non oritur actio Infallibility, and the ability to
learn from their mistakes.
Eppure si rinfresca

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Jack Erbes...
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:06 pm
Guest
Larry Sheldon wrote:
<snip>
Quote:
I don't have a modern GPS--but I keep thinking it would be interesting
to know how it would route a big truck from South Boston to Big Island, VA.


If you had a laptop and were using a MapSource install on that to give
you a route, the route below is what you would get. I put a waypoint at
intersection of D St and Summer St in So. Boston, another at the
intersection of US 501 and Hwy 122 in Big Island, VA.

The settings in MapSource were for "Truck" (not further defined or
explained) other settings were as noted below. The numbered list below
was generated by MapSource, the list of maneuvers are the remarks as
listed in the route properties.

Routing preferences in MapSource:
vehicle = truck
Try to avoid = unpaved roads, U-Turns, carpool lanes, ferries, seasonal
road closures
Calculation style = Faster time (as opposed to shorter distance)
Road Selection = biased one notch towards prefer highways (away from
minor roads)

Driving speeds set to (defaults):
Interstate highways = 67
Major highways = 58
Other highways = 45
Collector roads = 35
Residential streets = 25

Route from So. Boston

1. Starting point, intersection of D St and Summer St in So. Boston, MA
2. Get on D St and drive northeast
3. Turn left towards I-90/Logan Airport/Worcester
4. Take ramp to the right towards I-90 West/Worcester
5. Keep left onto I-90 W towards Worcester/Springfield
6. Keep left onto I-90 W/Mass Pike towards Worcester/New York
7. Take exit 9 to the right onto I-84 towards US-20/Hartford/New York City
8. Keep right onto I-84 W
9. Keep left onto I-84 W
10. Take exit 55 to the left onto Ct-2 E towards Norwich
11. Take exit 5D to the right onto Ct-3 S towards Glastonbury/Wethersfield
12. Take the I-91 S ramp to the left towards New Haven
13. Keep right onto I-91 S
14. Keep left onto I-91 S
15. Keep right towards I-95 S/N.Y.City
16. Keep left onto I-95 S ramp
17. Take exit 21 to the right onto I-287 W towards White Plains/Tappan
Zee Br
18. Continue on Cross Westchester Expwy towards White Plains/Tappan Zee Br
19. Keep left onto I-287 W
20. Keep left onto I-287 W/I-87 N towards Albany/Tappan Zee Bridge
21. Continue on I-87 N towards Albany
22. Keep left onto I-287 W
23. Take exit 15 to the right onto I-287/Rt-17 S towards New Jersey
24. Keep right onto I-287 S towards Morristown
25. Take exit 21B to the right onto I-78 W towards Easton Pa
26. Continue on I-78 W towards Pennsylvania
27. Continue on I-78 W towards Harrisburg
28. Take exit 1B to the left onto I-81 S towards Harrisburg
29. Keep right onto I-81 S towards US-322 W/North Harrisburg/Carlisle
30. Keep left onto I-81 S towards Carlisle
31. Keep left onto I-81 S
32. Keep right onto I-81 S towards Roanoke
33. Keep left onto I-81 S towards I-64 W/Roanoke/Lexington
34. Keep left onto I-81 S towards Roanoke
35. Take exit 180A to the left onto US-11 S towards Natural Bridge/Glasgow
36. Keep left onto Hwy 130
37. Turn right onto US 501
38. Finish is at intersection of US 501 and Hwy 122 in Big Island, VA

Total distance is 663 miles, driving time is 10:31

See how that compares with the route you would take in a truck.

Bear in mind, it is easy to insert more waypoints in the route and then
the route will automatically be adjusted to pass through those points.
In fact, that is the way that most of us would control the routing to
get through a metropolitan area like Boston using our local knowledge of
the best way to go. MapSource is pretty much clueless about all the
real world considerations that we use. It just know where the roads
are, and knows info about the roads and the setting I chose above.

Jack
 
H.B. Elkins...
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:00 pm
Guest
On Sat, 17 Oct 2009 20:06:25 -0400, Jack Erbes wrote:
Quote:

Larry Sheldon wrote:
snip
I don't have a modern GPS--but I keep thinking it would be interesting
to know how it would route a big truck from South Boston to Big Island, VA.


If you had a laptop and were using a MapSource install on that to give
you a route, the route below is what you would get. I put a waypoint at
intersection of D St and Summer St in So. Boston, another at the
intersection of US 501 and Hwy 122 in Big Island, VA.

Perhaps he meant South Boston, Va.?


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realitytrucker...
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:35 am
Guest
On Oct 15, 10:13 pm, "Bridge Busters" <a... at (no spam) anon.info> wrote:

<snipped>

Anyone, car OR trk driver, who relies soley on a GPS for driving
directions is asking for trouble. Here's how I have managed to get by
all these years without ever getting seriously lost in a big truck.

1)I have a GPS and I KNOW it's not truck specific.

2) I have a laptop and can easily look it up on MapQuest or some
similiar program/site. Once again, not truck specific and not always
100% reliable.

3) I get directions on my companies sat system. Now, we ALL know how
reliable that is.

3) And I also have the good ol' Rand-McNally large print laminated
page Trucker's Atlas. Truck specific and usually pretty damn
reliable. Problem is, not always updated, although I do try to
replace it every 2-3 years.

But by taking ALL of these sources into consideration and
consolidating all the info and weeding out the obvious errors....I can
uusually get to and fro without any problems.
 
Larry Sheldon...
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:36 pm
Guest
John David Galt wrote:
Quote:
Scott in SoCal wrote:
So how did Truckers avoid this problem before GPS?

I assume the trucking companies and/or shippers took responsibility for
directing them to usable routes. I would like the law to assign
responsibility that way, because shippers (especially) have the ability
to know local route information that a driver from another state does
not.

I prefer having the driver be responsible.

Shippers are the least reliable about the consignee, and how do we get
to the shipper.

There are other problems--people at both tend to tell you car routes
from where they live. There are exceptions--one consignee had nobody
who could tell us how to get there at all. I still don't understand
that one.

On the other hand, I had one where the routing instructions were to a
truck-stop on the edge of town with instructions to call a number with
pencil and paper in hand. She gave detailed and very explicit
instructions over the phone. Long story short, the little Sears store
destination was a door on an alley--you had to drive away from the store
several blocks to a street where there was enough to room to turn right
and then right again into an alley (that day there was a car park in a
bad spot and it took me several trys and movings of a dumpster to make
the turn into the alley, then drive several blocks down the alley to the
store.

The best deal is where a truck company maintains a data base of
instructions by drivers and includes them in the order.

Quote:
Perhaps they tended to stick to the main roads more instead of trying
to find "shortcuts?" Perhaps if they went back to that strategy the
"GPS" problem would go away?

I've been meaning to mention that I think the smartest ones stick to
STAA routes.

Quote:
Main roads are a great solution if they lead to your pickup/drop-off
point. But the problem only arises when they don't.

I wish that were true. But there are lots of places where problems
arise--all having to do with inadequate think being applied.
--
Requiescas in pace o email Two identifying characteristics
of System Administrators:
Ex turpi causa non oritur actio Infallibility, and the ability to
learn from their mistakes.
Eppure si rinfresca

ICBM Targeting Information:
http://tinyurl.com/4sqczs
http://tinyurl.com/7tp8ml
 
John David Galt...
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:04 pm
Guest
Scott in SoCal wrote:
Quote:
So how did Truckers avoid this problem before GPS?

I assume the trucking companies and/or shippers took responsibility for
directing them to usable routes. I would like the law to assign
responsibility that way, because shippers (especially) have the ability
to know local route information that a driver from another state does
not.

Quote:
Perhaps they tended to stick to the main roads more instead of trying
to find "shortcuts?" Perhaps if they went back to that strategy the
"GPS" problem would go away?

Main roads are a great solution if they lead to your pickup/drop-off
point. But the problem only arises when they don't.
 
Scott in SoCal...
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:34 pm
Guest
Last time on rec.autos.driving, John David Galt
<jdg at (no spam) diogenes.sacramento.ca.us> said:

Quote:
Scott in SoCal wrote:
So how did Truckers avoid this problem before GPS?

I assume the trucking companies and/or shippers took responsibility for
directing them to usable routes. I would like the law to assign
responsibility that way, because shippers (especially) have the ability
to know local route information that a driver from another state does
not.

Of course, if the goods were shipped long-haul by rail and then
transferred to a local driver's truck for the "last mile" the whole
problem would just disappear.
 
PeterD...
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:12 am
Guest
On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 13:04:52 -0800, John David Galt
<jdg at (no spam) diogenes.sacramento.ca.us> wrote:

Quote:
Scott in SoCal wrote:
So how did Truckers avoid this problem before GPS?

I assume the trucking companies and/or shippers took responsibility for
directing them to usable routes.

There are no fixed responsibilities in that regard, but in the end the
driver (and only the driver) is responsible for the safe operation of
the truck.

Quote:
I would like the law to assign
responsibility that way, because shippers (especially) have the ability
to know local route information that a driver from another state does
not.

Shippers rarely know that information, but drivers do. I think you
have it backwards.

Quote:

Perhaps they tended to stick to the main roads more instead of trying
to find "shortcuts?" Perhaps if they went back to that strategy the
"GPS" problem would go away?

Main roads are a great solution if they lead to your pickup/drop-off
point. But the problem only arises when they don't.

Often times, the driver will/should call the drop-off/load location
and get instructions. That is what we have the trucks coming to us for
deliveries/pickups do. Sometimes they (the drivers) already knwo where
to go, what route to take, and that's fine. Otherwise we direct them,
or even provide a 'follow me' truck to lead them to the location.

But, again: it is the driver's responsibility (not the dispatcher, not
the GPS) to know what's up with the route.

The problem cited in the original writeup is that some parkways in NY
are posted (and are clearly marked!) NO trucks. In addition they have
truck overheight detectors (and these work, I've kicked 'em off myself
before) as well. And these roads have alternative routing around low
overpasses. There is no excuse for a driver impacting an overpass,
but more laws won't help: THERE IS ALREADY ENOUGH LAWS TO PROTECT THE
ROUTE! <g>
 
PeterD...
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:15 am
Guest
On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 18:34:55 -0700, Scott in SoCal
<scottenaztlan at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:

Quote:
Last time on rec.autos.driving, John David Galt
jdg at (no spam) diogenes.sacramento.ca.us> said:

Scott in SoCal wrote:
So how did Truckers avoid this problem before GPS?

I assume the trucking companies and/or shippers took responsibility for
directing them to usable routes. I would like the law to assign
responsibility that way, because shippers (especially) have the ability
to know local route information that a driver from another state does
not.

Of course, if the goods were shipped long-haul by rail and then
transferred to a local driver's truck for the "last mile" the whole
problem would just disappear.

The lack of rail probably won't matter one bit, will it? There is
virtually no rail transport to 95% of the US today. Only larger
industrial areas are served--the nearest rail line for freight is
about 25 miles from us, not a 'last mile' by a long shot. (The cost
of switching carriers is a major factor...)
 
Larry Sheldon...
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:55 am
Guest
auke.mapping at (no spam) gmail.com wrote:

Quote:
Garmin now has a GPS specific for truckers. This is what Garmin says
about it:

Ease your way down the highway with the nüvi 465T – our first nüvi
designed specifically for the over-the-road trucking industry.
Featuring a preloaded NTTS Breakdown Directory, specialized routing
options throughout the lower 48 states and truck friendly points of
interest, this full-featured navigator was made for life on the road.
The nüvi 465T also lets you create custom vehicle profiles tailored to
what you’re driving and what you’re hauling. It’s convenience created
with over-the-road drivers in mind.

Not sure if this will help though but at least it is something.

Sounds like it....and brings up an issue that has not been discussed
much, if at all, here.

That is the effect on routing of the load you are carrying as opposed to
its dimensions.

The rules for hazardous materials transport have a profound effect on
routings sometimes (and for the poorly informed, "Hazardous Materials"
is not a term for "glow-in-the-dark-stuff" or "go-boom-stuff"--it can
and does include components in your soda pop.


--
Requiescas in pace o email Two identifying characteristics
of System Administrators:
Ex turpi causa non oritur actio Infallibility, and the ability to
learn from their mistakes.
Eppure si rinfresca

ICBM Targeting Information:
http://tinyurl.com/4sqczs
http://tinyurl.com/7tp8ml
 
Larry Sheldon...
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:04 pm
Guest
YADATROT

http://www.creators.com/comics/speed-bump/48272.html # cartoon
 
Larry Sheldon...
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:08 pm
Guest
John David Galt wrote:

Quote:
Rail tends to serve only the major metro areas, and indeed a lot of
shipping to Chicago, LA, Atlanta, etc. does go intermodal. The
problem arises when companies that are going to regularly send/receive
big-rig sized loads build their plants in locations that are hard (or
it's not obvious how) to safely reach by truck.

They tend to build then where government intervention offers them a
variety of bribes to build there.


--
Requiescas in pace o email Two identifying characteristics
of System Administrators:
Ex turpi causa non oritur actio Infallibility, and the ability to
learn from their mistakes.
Eppure si rinfresca

ICBM Targeting Information:
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Larry Sheldon...
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:13 pm
Guest
John David Galt wrote:

Quote:
It would help if there were still direct rail tracks into most
industrial locations. Many have been torn up because rail lines are
subject to property taxes -- which doesn't make any more sense for
them than it does for roads.

Some states tax each rail car for the length of time the rail car is
inside the state's boundaries.
--
Requiescas in pace o email Two identifying characteristics
of System Administrators:
Ex turpi causa non oritur actio Infallibility, and the ability to
learn from their mistakes.
Eppure si rinfresca

ICBM Targeting Information:
http://tinyurl.com/4sqczs
http://tinyurl.com/7tp8ml
 
John David Galt...
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:55 pm
Guest
Quote:
Scott in SoCal wrote:
So how did Truckers avoid this problem before GPS?

John David Galt wrote:
I assume the trucking companies and/or shippers took responsibility for
directing them to usable routes. I would like the law to assign
responsibility that way, because shippers (especially) have the ability
to know local route information that a driver from another state does
not.

Scott in SoCal wrote:
Quote:
Of course, if the goods were shipped long-haul by rail and then
transferred to a local driver's truck for the "last mile" the whole
problem would just disappear.

Rail tends to serve only the major metro areas, and indeed a lot of
shipping to Chicago, LA, Atlanta, etc. does go intermodal. The
problem arises when companies that are going to regularly send/receive
big-rig sized loads build their plants in locations that are hard (or
it's not obvious how) to safely reach by truck.

It would help if there were still direct rail tracks into most
industrial locations. Many have been torn up because rail lines are
subject to property taxes -- which doesn't make any more sense for
them than it does for roads. (The only public service for which
roads OR railroads generate significant demand is police, and just as
freeways have dedicated highway patrols paid for out of car taxes, all
large railroads in the US have their own private, federally-chartered
police forces.)
 
 
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