In message <488ab7f5$1 at (no spam) darkstar>, Eugene Miya <eugene at (no spam) cse.ucsc.edu> writes
In article <6Fj7WCCfrGiIFwMj at (no spam) auchnarrow.demon.co.uk>,
Chris Townsend <Chris at (no spam) DELETE.auchnarrow.demon.co.uk> wrote:

It's sauna night Chris. I'm only going to respond until co-ed hours
start.

Have a good time :-)

Ski jumps ......

Going from bouncing over bumps of a few feet to looking down an
Olympic
ski jump is a big difference
Somewhat difference skills but can be combined.

Landing is the key.

The key is that it's not a flat landing.

It would be very different if it was. Much easier to land on a slope.

It fakea a lot of air and if you blow it, you are less likely to get
killed.

Eddie the Eagle showed you can be incompetent and survive.


I will look for the one in Oslo in Oct. Fram first, then Kontiki,
Amundsen's NW passage boats, friends want me to see the
sculpture garden
(Viggland's)
Fram is great. I was surprised at the size.
I think the new Fram is 12,000 tons.
True ice breakers are something to behold. We have 1 not far from
here
in the reserve fleet just passing its time (the Glacier).

The new Fram isn't an ice breaker.

Neither was the original. It was designed to survive being frozen into
the ice.


The opening up of the Arctic as the ice retreats may increase the market
for a while.

It's Ice Station Zebra all over again.
Billions at stake. The NW Passage will become a tourist destination as
well as lots of commerce.

It'll certainly be interesting watching it all. Furthest north I've been
is 78 degrees on Spitsbergen, which back in the 90s was desperate for
tourism.

Channel Tunnel

And it's great too. I've taken the train through quite a few times.
It only takes a common enemy.

There was an argument against the Tunnel on the basis that France was
the enemy.

I heard that.
I also know that globalization is having a big impact on shipping.
So the train is merely another ship.

The train created mass tourism in Britain. It opened up mountaineering
in the Scottish Highlands too.

Well G. notes that the English are somewhat rigid and stuck up,
and have
uninteresting food, and other stereotypes. Yet she has an English
boy
friend whom she finds none of those and intersting.
The stereotypes were probably truer in the past I suspect ...... stiff
upper lip and all that. The food is interesting now because it's
international - I rarely go into a restaurant serving British food. I
prefer Italian, Chinese, Mexican, Indian, Moroccan ....
India was English. Chinese, a part, was English. The rest were under
The Pope.

Indian food had the biggest early influence. Now English curry dishes go
back to India.

Chicken vindaloo?

Chicken Tikka Masala, most popular dish in British restaurants.

Smoke me a kipper.

Memories of childhood breakfasts. Kippers were a treat.


I can think of some English church tunes, I have no idea their titles.
But you guys tend to stand up at attention. And those aren't God Save
the Queen.

Plenty of hymns, mostly Victorian. I had to sing them at school
(Christian Assembly every day) and can still remember some - Onward
Christian Soldiers being a rather militant one.


It's the Franco-German alliance that drives the European Union.
Yeah, don't say that in Spain. The Spanish are particularly proud of
being among the earliest EU members.
The original six.

Spain weren't actually in the original six. These were France, Italy,
West Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg. The UK joined in
1973, Spain some ten years later. There was no chance of Spain joining
until it became a democracy after Franco.

You guys are only partial members. Like the Swiss.

No, we're full members. The Swiss aren't members at all.

I think the Spanish and Portuguese have a good hand and bringing
the
....
They are clearly having a harder time with Africans.
The main concern these days seems to be with Muslims, some of
whom are
African of course.
It's people's identity. We have not yet reached the point where when
asked where home is, we respond: Earth.
Here we have not yet reached the point where people respond Europe.
Years down the road.

If ever. The current mood in Britain is anti Europe.

Do you mean anti-Continent?

No, anti-European Union. It's the institution people don't like.

I suspect you have varying degrees in education in the UK
(possibly more
public than private in the UK sense). The time kids are in
elementary
The Scottish education system is pretty good I think. More language
work
here than in England afaik. & more outdoors education as well.
Is it?

I reckon so.

Well, I know your parents worry.

Don't all parents worry?

I reckon my stepdaughters had a good education at the local school here.
Anecdotal evidence of course.


I'm more toward Hannibal's elephants.
A fascinating story. How to invade Italy from Africa.
Over the pass.
Eventually! After traversing Spain.

Over or around the Pyranees.

The Pyrenees are lower at each end, more so in the west, but there's no
way round them except by boat.

Mind you, I'm in the Grand Canyon not the Alps at
present, reading Harvey Butchart's biography.
A great opener of the Grand Canyon though. The first hiking guide book
writer.
He was a little of a disappointment to Fletcher. He had to finish
before Colin did his walk.

He actually finished after Fletcher's walk began but before Fletcher
reached the section he still hadn't done.

Harvey was no dummy. I knew what Colin was up to.

Fletcher told him before his walk started. He had to in order to get the
info he needed.

The two big differences between them are that Butchart never wanted to
do trips of more than 2-3 days - he said he couldn't imagine not being
bored and lonely on a longer trip - and that Fletcher could write and
Butchart couldn't.

Also more water carrying or caching.

I don't think that bothered Butchart. He travelled pretty light anyway.

Chris Townsend wrote:
In message <488ab7f5$1 at (no spam) darkstar>, Eugene Miya <eugene at (no spam) cse.ucsc.edu> writes
In article <6Fj7WCCfrGiIFwMj at (no spam) auchnarrow.demon.co.uk>,
Chris Townsend <Chris at (no spam) DELETE.auchnarrow.demon.co.uk> wrote:

Mind you, I'm in the Grand Canyon not the Alps at
present, reading Harvey Butchart's biography.
A great opener of the Grand Canyon though. The first hiking guide book
writer.
He was a little of a disappointment to Fletcher. He had to finish
before Colin did his walk.

He actually finished after Fletcher's walk began but before Fletcher
reached the section he still hadn't done.

Harvey was no dummy. I knew what Colin was up to.
Fletcher told him before his walk started. He had to in order to get
the info he needed.

The two big differences between them are that Butchart never wanted to
do trips of more than 2-3 days - he said he couldn't imagine not being
bored and lonely on a longer trip - and that Fletcher could write and
Butchart couldn't.

Also more water carrying or caching.
I don't think that bothered Butchart. He travelled pretty light
anyway.

Butchart's book (which I used to own) mentions Donald Davis, a caver
who was one of Butchart's canyoneering partners. Donald taught Butchart
to Jumar IIRC. A passage in the book mentions some insane climbing and
canyoneering that they did.

Donald is infamous among cavers for his hard charging exploration in
difficult caves like Lechuguilla in NM, eccentric cave rations (nothing
but tuna) and general oddness. Donald's in his 70s now, and was still
caving as recently as 6 years ago (which was the last time I went to an
NSS convention).

In article <ju1N8PEARcjIFwlv at (no spam) auchnarrow.demon.co.uk>,
Chris Townsend <Chris at (no spam) DELETE.auchnarrow.demon.co.uk> wrote:
It's sauna night Chris. I'm only going to respond until dinner starts.
Ski jumps ......
Eddie the Eagle showed you can be incompetent and survive.
Hey so too the Jamacian bob sled team.

That's ambition.

It was Huntsford's Birthday Boys (was it?). Scott and his buddies
taking pride in discovering things from first principles all the time
(was that "natural learning?"). Go with no training or ideas (fair
means?).

Which of course Wilson attempted his and others best ideas
(looking at their/his cookers). Brits and some Americans take pride in
anti-intellectualism. Gentlemen all. Frozen meat.

I also know that globalization is having a big impact on shipping.
So the train is merely another ship.
The train created mass tourism in Britain. It opened up mountaineering
in the Scottish Highlands too.
Zero Gully.
On the Ben.

Much later. Late 1950s. Tower Ridge was the big early climb. The first
recorded ascent of Ben Nevis was in 1771 by a botanist making a survey.
The first tourist ascent was reckoned to be in 1787. By the 1810s
tourist ascents were common and guides were available in Fort William.
Mountaineering - technical climbs on the cliffs - began in the 1880s.

Early simple peak bagger history.
I am surrounded by botanists.

Instead think Robin Smith, The Bat and the Wicked.
Joe Brown. The BAD boys. Getting drunk, fist fights for the fun of it.
Another use of jam crack tools. Maybe Mods and Rockers.

Well G. notes that the English are somewhat rigid and stuck up,
uninteresting food, and other stereotypes.
Indian food had the biggest early influence. Now English curry dishes go
back to India.
Chicken vindaloo?
Chicken Tikka Masala, most popular dish in British restaurants.
Tasty.

Every town has a curry house.

And a chip house.

Smoke me a kipper.
Memories of childhood breakfasts. Kippers were a treat.
Delicious.

And bony ;-)

It's cold out here, there's no kind of atmosphere.
I'm all alone, more or less.
Gold fish are nipping at my toes...

I can think of some English church tunes, I have no idea their titles.
But you guys tend to stand up at attention. And those aren't God Save
the Queen.
Plenty of hymns, mostly Victorian. I had to sing them at school
(Christian Assembly every day) and can still remember some - Onward
Christian Soldiers being a rather militant one.
Verily.

"Marching as to war"

Go collect countries!
Build the Empire back up!

Put the colored man in his place!

It's the Franco-German alliance that drives the European Union.
You guys are only partial members. Like the Swiss.
No, we're full members. The Swiss aren't members at all.
They are 1/2 members.

No, they voted against EU members. They're not any sort of member.

They will take anyone's money.
Well maybe not Al Qaeda's.

You guys also don't carry the Euro.

No but we're still members. The Euro isn't an essential requirement.
Denmark and Sweden also don't use the Euro.

When does the UK have its turn in Brussels?

If ever. The current mood in Britain is anti Europe.
Do you mean anti-Continent?
No, anti-European Union. It's the institution people don't like.
Nationalism is common in a number of countries.

Not necessarily nationalism. Nationalism is strong in Scotland - the
Scottish National Party is in power here - but many people want to stay
in the EU but as Scotland not the UK.

Like Gibraltar? With your own license plates?

I suspect you have varying degrees in education in the UK
Don't all parents worry?
Only as a generalization. If it were truly universal, I doubt we would
have ghetto problems.

The perception of problems vary. Parents in some cultures can worry
about their children getting ideas "above their station".

I'll say that: I doubt motherhood is innate in humans.
I think that this problem is such that it's likely to get worse in the
future. Dinner time.

I agree

In article <BjcVvxDmMwjIFwAC at (no spam) auchnarrow.demon.co.uk>,
Chris Townsend <Chris at (no spam) DELETE.auchnarrow.demon.co.uk> wrote:
It's not sauna night Chris.
Ski jumps ......
Eddie the Eagle showed you can be incompetent and survive.
Hey so too the Jamacian bob sled team.
That's ambition.
It was Huntsford's Birthday Boys (was it?). Scott and his buddies
taking pride in discovering things from first principles all the time
(was that "natural learning?"). Go with no training or ideas (fair
means?).

They did do some training. But their mindset was too rigid to really
take on new ideas. Francis Spufford's book I May Be Some Time is an
excellent account of the cultural history and baggage that led up to
Scott's expedition.

Sounds good.
Should I panel 28 it?

Which of course Wilson attempted his and others best ideas
(looking at their/his cookers). Brits and some Americans take pride in
anti-intellectualism. Gentlemen all. Frozen meat.

Oddly this seemed to apply to polar expeditions but not Himalayan ones.
Mallory was certainly an intellectual and learning and experimenting was
regarded as vital for the Himalayas .

I think Scott was a little bit more nationalistic. Scott had Wilson.
Mallory was a lower guy on the Bruce hierarchy. The navy had better
grounding in their science needs than the Army.

globalization shipping.
train
mass tourism in Britain. It opened up mountaineering
the Scottish Highlands too.
On the Ben.
Much later. Late 1950s. Tower Ridge was the big early climb. The first
recorded ascent of Ben Nevis was in 1771 by a botanist making a survey.
The first tourist ascent was reckoned to be in 1787. By the 1810s
tourist ascents were common and guides were available in Fort William.
Mountaineering - technical climbs on the cliffs - began in the 1880s.
Early simple peak bagger history.

Botanists made many of the first recorded ascents in the Highlands
(locals had almost certainly already climbed many of them but left no
records).

Not the early locals?
We generally give some credit to the local natives getting to the tops
of peaks.

Instead think Robin Smith, The Bat and the Wicked.
Joe Brown. The BAD boys. Getting drunk, fist fights for the fun of it.
Another use of jam crack tools. Maybe Mods and Rockers.

Don Whillans and Dougal Haston are the key figures here. Real bad boys.

Street fightin' men. Plumber's wrench, heavy for bashin' skulls.
Dougal talkin' philosophy of all.

Well G. notes that the English are somewhat rigid and stuck up,
uninteresting food, and other stereotypes.
Indian food had the biggest early influence. Now English curry dishes
back to India.
Chicken vindaloo?
Chicken Tikka Masala, most popular dish in British restaurants.
Tasty.
Every town has a curry house.
And a chip house.

Sometimes combined Curry and chips.

Delicious.
Pass the malt vinegar?

Gordon Ramsey.

Smoke me a kipper.
Memories of childhood breakfasts. Kippers were a treat.
Delicious.
And bony
It's cold out here, there's no kind of atmosphere.
I'm all alone, more or less.
Gold fish are nipping at my toes...

?

Red Dwarf theme song. That's where
Chicken vindaloo. Smoke me a kipper.
are lines.

I can think of some English church tunes, I have no idea their titles.
But you guys tend to stand up at attention. And those aren't God Save
the Queen.
Plenty of hymns, mostly Victorian. I had to sing them at school
(Christian Assembly every day) and can still remember some - Onward
Christian Soldiers being a rather militant one.
Verily.
"Marching as to war"

Go collect countries!
Build the Empire back up!

I think I'll pass on that one :-)

Visit Sunny Basra!

See the nice Afghan mountains.

See Kashmir, Pakistan, and India.

Put the colored man in his place!

And everyone who isn't British, or maybe English - the national anthem
used to contain a verse with the line "rebellious Scots to crush".

You under their thumb?!

It's the Franco-German alliance that drives the European Union.
You guys are only partial members. Like the Swiss.
No, we're full members. The Swiss aren't members at all.
They are 1/2 members.
No, they voted against EU members. They're not any sort of member.
They will take anyone's money.
Well maybe not Al Qaeda's.

Though I suspect they probably have some of it through various channels.

Hey they protect the Pope, too.
I suspect that they are careful on which denom their money gets loaned.

Nationalism is common in a number of countries.
Not necessarily nationalism. Nationalism is strong in Scotland - the
Scottish National Party is in power here - but many people want to stay
in the EU but as Scotland not the UK.
Like Gibraltar? With your own license plates?

License plates certainly. But most importantly direct Scottish
representation.

Tartan kilts on the license plates?

Adopt the Euro separately.

I suspect you have varying degrees in education in the UK
Don't all parents worry?
Only as a generalization. If it were truly universal, I doubt we would
have ghetto problems.
The perception of problems vary. Parents in some cultures can worry
about their children getting ideas "above their station".
That's keeping kids in their place.

I'll say that: I doubt motherhood is innate in humans.
I think that this problem is such that it's likely to get worse in the
future.
I agree :-(

Where the fun in that?!

I know. Boring

It's not sauna night Chris.
Ski jumps ......
Eddie the Eagle showed you can be incompetent and survive.
Hey so too the Jamacian bob sled team.
That's ambition.
It was Huntsford's Birthday Boys (was it?). Scott and his buddies
taking pride in discovering things from first principles all the time
(was that "natural learning?"). Go with no training or ideas (fair
means?).

They did do some training. But their mindset was too rigid to really
take on new ideas. Francis Spufford's book I May Be Some Time is an
excellent account of the cultural history and baggage that led up to
Scott's expedition.

Which of course Wilson attempted his and others best ideas
(looking at their/his cookers). Brits and some Americans take pride in
anti-intellectualism. Gentlemen all. Frozen meat.

Oddly this seemed to apply to polar expeditions but not Himalayan ones.
Mallory was certainly an intellectual and learning and experimenting was
regarded as vital for the Himalayas .

globalization shipping.
train
mass tourism in Britain. It opened up mountaineering
the Scottish Highlands too.
On the Ben.
Much later. Late 1950s. Tower Ridge was the big early climb. The first
recorded ascent of Ben Nevis was in 1771 by a botanist making a survey.
The first tourist ascent was reckoned to be in 1787. By the 1810s
tourist ascents were common and guides were available in Fort William.
Mountaineering - technical climbs on the cliffs - began in the 1880s.
Early simple peak bagger history.

Botanists made many of the first recorded ascents in the Highlands
(locals had almost certainly already climbed many of them but left no
records).

Instead think Robin Smith, The Bat and the Wicked.
Joe Brown. The BAD boys. Getting drunk, fist fights for the fun of it.
Another use of jam crack tools. Maybe Mods and Rockers.

Don Whillans and Dougal Haston are the key figures here. Real bad boys.

Well G. notes that the English are somewhat rigid and stuck up,
uninteresting food, and other stereotypes.
Indian food had the biggest early influence. Now English curry dishes
back to India.
Chicken vindaloo?
Chicken Tikka Masala, most popular dish in British restaurants.
Tasty.
Every town has a curry house.
And a chip house.

Sometimes combined Curry and chips.

Smoke me a kipper.
Memories of childhood breakfasts. Kippers were a treat.
Delicious.
And bony
It's cold out here, there's no kind of atmosphere.
I'm all alone, more or less.
Gold fish are nipping at my toes...

?

I can think of some English church tunes, I have no idea their titles.
But you guys tend to stand up at attention. And those aren't God Save
the Queen.
Plenty of hymns, mostly Victorian. I had to sing them at school
(Christian Assembly every day) and can still remember some - Onward
Christian Soldiers being a rather militant one.
Verily.
"Marching as to war"

Go collect countries!
Build the Empire back up!

I think I'll pass on that one

Put the colored man in his place!

And everyone who isn't British, or maybe English - the national anthem
used to contain a verse with the line "rebellious Scots to crush".

It's the Franco-German alliance that drives the European Union.
You guys are only partial members. Like the Swiss.
No, we're full members. The Swiss aren't members at all.
They are 1/2 members.
No, they voted against EU members. They're not any sort of member.
They will take anyone's money.
Well maybe not Al Qaeda's.

Though I suspect they probably have some of it through various channels.

the Euro.
No but we're still members. The Euro isn't an essential requirement.
Denmark and Sweden also don't use the Euro.

When does the UK have its turn in Brussels?

We had one recently. I don't know when the next one is.

The current mood in Britain is anti Europe.
Do you mean anti-Continent?
No, anti-European Union. It's the institution people don't like.
Nationalism is common in a number of countries.
Not necessarily nationalism. Nationalism is strong in Scotland - the
Scottish National Party is in power here - but many people want to stay
in the EU but as Scotland not the UK.
Like Gibraltar? With your own license plates?

License plates certainly. But most importantly direct Scottish
representation.

I suspect you have varying degrees in education in the UK
Don't all parents worry?
Only as a generalization. If it were truly universal, I doubt we would
have ghetto problems.
The perception of problems vary. Parents in some cultures can worry
about their children getting ideas "above their station".
That's keeping kids in their place.
I'll say that: I doubt motherhood is innate in humans.
I think that this problem is such that it's likely to get worse in the
future.
I agree

It's sauna night Chris. Dinner in a couple of hours.
Ski jumps ......
Eddie the Eagle showed you can be incompetent and survive.
Hey so too the Jamacian bob sled team.
That's ambition.
It was Huntsford's Birthday Boys (was it?). Scott and his buddies
....
They did do some training. But their mindset was too rigid to really
take on new ideas. Francis Spufford's book I May Be Some Time is an
excellent account of the cultural history and baggage that led up to
Scott's expedition.
Should I panel 28 it?

Definitely. The subtitle is "Ice and the English Imagination".

Which of course Wilson attempted his and others best ideas
(looking at their/his cookers). Brits and some Americans take pride in
anti-intellectualism. Gentlemen all. Frozen meat.
Oddly this seemed to apply to polar expeditions but not Himalayan ones.
Mallory was certainly an intellectual and learning and experimenting was
regarded as vital for the Himalayas .
I think Scott was a little bit more nationalistic. Scott had Wilson.
Mallory was a lower guy on the Bruce hierarchy. The navy had better
grounding in their science needs than the Army.

The Navy was the leading organisation in exploration too. The Army had
little to do with that.

Mallory was a schoolteacher. Scott was a career naval man.

globalization shipping.
train
mass tourism in Britain. It opened up mountaineering
the Scottish Highlands too.
On the Ben.
Much later. Late 1950s. Tower Ridge was the big early climb. The first
recorded ascent of Ben Nevis was in 1771 by a botanist making a survey.
The first tourist ascent was reckoned to be in 1787. By the 1810s
tourist ascents were common and guides were available in Fort William.
Mountaineering - technical climbs on the cliffs - began in the 1880s.
Botanists made many of the first recorded ascents in the Highlands
(locals had almost certainly already climbed many of them but left no
records).
Not the early locals?
We generally give some credit to the local natives getting to the tops
of peaks.

That's why people talk of first recorded ascents. There are no earlier
records. And nothing on summits to show people had been there. But they
undoubtedly had, at least on most of them.

Instead think Robin Smith, The Bat and the Wicked.
Joe Brown. The BAD boys. Getting drunk, fist fights for the fun of it.
Another use of jam crack tools. Maybe Mods and Rockers.
Don Whillans and Dougal Haston are the key figures here. Real bad boys.
Street fightin' men. Plumber's wrench, heavy for bashin' skulls.
Dougal talkin' philosophy of all.

Certainly different in background. Whillans an inner city working class
lad, Haston a university intellectual. The South Face of Annapurna was
their big combined triumph. Jim Perrin's biography of Whillans, The
Villain, is excellent.

Well G. notes that the English are somewhat rigid and stuck up,
uninteresting food, and other stereotypes.
Indian food had the biggest early influence. Now English curry dishes
back to India.
Chicken vindaloo?
Chicken Tikka Masala, most popular dish in British restaurants.
Tasty.
Every town has a curry house.
And a chip house.
Sometimes combined Curry and chips.
Delicious.
Pass the malt vinegar?
Not on curry!

Gordon Ramsey.

Celebrity chefs. There's lots of them. They don't all swear like Ramsey.

Smoke me a kipper.
It's cold out here, there's no kind of atmosphere.
?
Red Dwarf theme song. That's where
Chicken vindaloo. Smoke me a kipper.
are lines.

I've seen a few episodes but not enough to remember theme songs or catch
phrases.

I can think of some English church tunes, I have no idea their titles.
But you guys tend to stand up at attention. And those aren't God Save
the Queen.
Plenty of hymns, mostly Victorian. I had to sing them at school
(Christian Assembly every day) and can still remember some - Onward
Christian Soldiers being a rather militant one.
Verily.
"Marching as to war"

Go collect countries!
Build the Empire back up!
I think I'll pass on that one
Visit Sunny Basra!
See the nice Afghan mountains.

Britain's history with Afghanistan goes back a long way of course.

See Kashmir, Pakistan, and India.

Dividing up countries was never a British strongpoint.

Put the colored man in his place!
And everyone who isn't British, or maybe English - the national anthem
used to contain a verse with the line "rebellious Scots to crush".
You under their thumb?!

That was written at the time of the 1745 Jacobite rebellion, the last
attempt to overthrow the UK government. And the rebellious Scots were
crushed. Mostly by non-rebellious Scots. History never seems to be as
simple as many people would like.

It's the Franco-German alliance that drives the European Union.
You guys are only partial members. Like the Swiss.
No, we're full members. The Swiss aren't members at all.
They are 1/2 members.
No, they voted against EU members. They're not any sort of member.
They will take anyone's money.
Well maybe not Al Qaeda's.
Though I suspect they probably have some of it through various channels.
Hey they protect the Pope, too.
I suspect that they are careful on which denom their money gets loaned.

I think they are careful with everything to do with money.

Nationalism is common in a number of countries.
Not necessarily nationalism. Nationalism is strong in Scotland - the
Scottish National Party is in power here - but many people want to stay
in the EU but as Scotland not the UK.
Like Gibraltar? With your own license plates?
License plates certainly. But most importantly direct Scottish
representation.
Tartan kilts on the license plates?

Please no!

Adopt the Euro separately.

If Scotland was independent that would be a possibility.

I suspect you have varying degrees in education in the UK
Don't all parents worry?
Only as a generalization. If it were truly universal, I doubt we would
have ghetto problems.
The perception of problems vary. Parents in some cultures can worry
about their children getting ideas "above their station".
That's keeping kids in their place.

And suppressing ambition, intellect, drive.....

I'll say that: I doubt motherhood is innate in humans.
I think that this problem is such that it's likely to get worse in the
future.
I agree
Where the fun in that?!

I know. Boring

In article <fdzyQqSZE6jIFwhd at (no spam) auchnarrow.demon.co.uk>,
Chris Townsend <Chris at (no spam) DELETE.auchnarrow.demon.co.uk> wrote:
It's sauna night Chris. Dinner in a couple of hours.
Ski jumps ......
Eddie the Eagle showed you can be incompetent and survive.
Hey so too the Jamacian bob sled team.
That's ambition.
It was Huntsford's Birthday Boys (was it?). Scott and his buddies
...
They did do some training. But their mindset was too rigid to really
take on new ideas. Francis Spufford's book I May Be Some Time is an
excellent account of the cultural history and baggage that led up to
Scott's expedition.
Should I panel 28 it?

Definitely. The subtitle is "Ice and the English Imagination".

Whom and where do I piut down for publisher and publication date?

Which of course Wilson attempted his and others best ideas
(looking at their/his cookers). Brits and some Americans take pride in
anti-intellectualism. Gentlemen all. Frozen meat.
Oddly this seemed to apply to polar expeditions but not Himalayan ones.
Mallory was certainly an intellectual and learning and experimenting was
regarded as vital for the Himalayas .
I think Scott was a little bit more nationalistic. Scott had Wilson.
Mallory was a lower guy on the Bruce hierarchy. The navy had better
grounding in their science needs than the Army.

The Navy was the leading organisation in exploration too. The Army had
little to do with that.

Mallory was a schoolteacher. Scott was a career naval man.

Mallory was just getting his start teaching.
Scott's baggage included his beautiful upper class wife.

The Navy media was Harrison and his recent clock book, but also the
lineage of big guns, fast boats, and cutting down forests to name a few.

The Army would have its transition problems. The Prince still making
news flying about?

globalization shipping.
train
mass tourism in Britain. It opened up mountaineering
the Scottish Highlands too.
On the Ben.
Much later. Late 1950s. Tower Ridge was the big early climb. The first
recorded ascent of Ben Nevis was in 1771 by a botanist making a survey.
The first tourist ascent was reckoned to be in 1787. By the 1810s
tourist ascents were common and guides were available in Fort William.
Mountaineering - technical climbs on the cliffs - began in the 1880s.
Botanists made many of the first recorded ascents in the Highlands
(locals had almost certainly already climbed many of them but left no
records).
Not the early locals?
We generally give some credit to the local natives getting to the tops
of peaks.

That's why people talk of first recorded ascents. There are no earlier
records. And nothing on summits to show people had been there. But they
undoubtedly had, at least on most of them.

Well many of the locals didn't care. The Swiss didn't care about the
Matterhorn until Whymper. But him and Hadlow were gentlemen unlike the
guys listed below.

Instead think Robin Smith, The Bat and the Wicked.
Joe Brown. The BAD boys. Getting drunk, fist fights for the fun of it.
Another use of jam crack tools. Maybe Mods and Rockers.
Don Whillans and Dougal Haston are the key figures here. Real bad boys.
Street fightin' men. Plumber's wrench, heavy for bashin' skulls.
Dougal talkin' philosophy of all.

Certainly different in background. Whillans an inner city working class
lad, Haston a university intellectual. The South Face of Annapurna was
their big combined triumph. Jim Perrin's biography of Whillans, The
Villain, is excellent.

Well part of the problem is that the gentlemen in things like the
Explorers' Club, the AC, and other groups were upper class and the
founders started getting old, the new members weren't as talented, but
stuck to their lists, and easy accomplishments.

Well G. notes that the English are somewhat rigid and stuck up,
uninteresting food, and other stereotypes.
Indian food had the biggest early influence. Now English
curry dishes
back to India.
Chicken vindaloo?
Chicken Tikka Masala, most popular dish in British restaurants.
Tasty.
Every town has a curry house.
And a chip house.
Sometimes combined Curry and chips.
Delicious.
Pass the malt vinegar?
Not on curry!

Some times yes?

Gordon Ramsey.

Celebrity chefs. There's lots of them. They don't all swear like Ramsey.

Not on some TV.

Smoke me a kipper.
It's cold out here, there's no kind of atmosphere.
?
Red Dwarf theme song. That's where
Chicken vindaloo. Smoke me a kipper.
are lines.

I've seen a few episodes but not enough to remember theme songs or catch
phrases.

Small mini-marathons. VCR programming.

Britain's history with Afghanistan goes back a long way of course.

Osama, don't surf. Nor ski.

See Kashmir, Pakistan, and India.

Dividing up countries was never a British strongpoint.

Hey Winston was your guy. Some people here suggested 3 distinct Iraqs.

Put the colored man in his place!
And everyone who isn't British, or maybe English - the national anthem
used to contain a verse with the line "rebellious Scots to crush".
You under their thumb?!

That was written at the time of the 1745 Jacobite rebellion, the last
attempt to overthrow the UK government. And the rebellious Scots were
crushed. Mostly by non-rebellious Scots. History never seems to be as
simple as many people would like.

I wonder where Ed is? He like to being up William Wallace and
Braveheart. Still have not seen it. I got the net.pb a PB shirt.

Are you saying that your ancestors were repressed, too?

Nationalism is common in a number of countries.
Not necessarily nationalism. Nationalism is strong in Scotland - the
Scottish National Party is in power here - but many people want to stay
in the EU but as Scotland not the UK.
Like Gibraltar? With your own license plates?
License plates certainly. But most importantly direct Scottish
representation.
Tartan kilts on the license plates?

Please no!

Aye, sounds like we drilled a nerve on that one.

What then?

Adopt the Euro separately.

If Scotland was independent that would be a possibility.

"Freedom!"

I suspect you have varying degrees in education in the UK
Don't all parents worry?
Only as a generalization. If it were truly universal, I doubt we would
have ghetto problems.
The perception of problems vary. Parents in some cultures can worry
about their children getting ideas "above their station".
That's keeping kids in their place.

And suppressing ambition, intellect, drive.....

Parents under threat? Or like Huxley: It's Good to be a Beta. Betas
are above Gammas. Betas don't have to work as hard as Alphas....

It's sauna night Chris.
Ski jumps ......
Eddie the Eagle showed you can be incompetent and survive.
Hey so too the Jamacian bob sled team.
That's ambition.
It was Huntsford's Birthday Boys (was it?). Scott and his buddies
...
They did do some training. But their mindset was too rigid to really
take on new ideas. Francis Spufford's book I May Be Some Time is an
The subtitle is "Ice and the English Imagination".
Whom and where do I put down for publisher and publication date?

Faber & Faber. 1996.

Wilson
(looking at their/his cookers). Brits and some Americans take pride in
anti-intellectualism. Gentlemen all. Frozen meat.
Oddly this seemed to apply to polar expeditions but not Himalayan ones.
Mallory was certainly an intellectual and learning and experimenting was
regarded as vital for the Himalayas .
I think Scott was a little bit more nationalistic. Scott had Wilson.
Mallory was a lower guy on the Bruce hierarchy. The navy had better
grounding in their science needs than the Army.
The Navy was the leading organisation in exploration too. The Army had
little to do with that.
Mallory was a schoolteacher. Scott was a career naval man.
Mallory was just getting his start teaching.
Scott's baggage included his beautiful upper class wife.

Scott was definitely interested in social climbing. He saw polar
exploration as furthering his career. Mallory didn't think like that. I
think he enjoyed climbing mountains much more than Scott enjoyed polar
travel.

The Navy media was Harrison and his recent clock book, but also the
lineage of big guns, fast boats, and cutting down forests to name a few.

The senior service, as it likes to be known.

The Army would have its transition problems. The Prince still making
news flying about?

So I believe.

globalization shipping.
train
mass tourism in Britain. It opened up mountaineering
the Scottish Highlands too.
On the Ben.
Much later. Late 1950s. Tower Ridge was the big early climb. The first
recorded ascent of Ben Nevis was in 1771 by a botanist making a survey.
The first tourist ascent was reckoned to be in 1787. By the 1810s
tourist ascents were common and guides were available in Fort William.
Mountaineering - technical climbs on the cliffs - began in the 1880s.
Botanists made many of the first recorded ascents in the Highlands
Not the early locals?
That's why people talk of first recorded ascents. There are no earlier
records. And nothing on summits to show people had been there.

Well many of the locals didn't care. The Swiss didn't care about the
Matterhorn until Whymper. But him and Hadlow were gentlemen unlike the
guys listed below.

The difference is that there would have been no reason to climb the
Matterhorn and it wouldn't have been easy to do so. Most Scottish
mountains can be walked up. Locals would probably have crossed summits
on hunting trips or while tending sheep or cattle (or rustling them, or
hiding from excise men - many illegal whisky stills were hidden in the
hills).

Instead think Robin Smith, The Bat and the Wicked.
Joe Brown. The BAD boys. Getting drunk, fist fights for the fun of it.
Another use of jam crack tools. Maybe Mods and Rockers.
Don Whillans and Dougal Haston are the key figures here. Real bad boys.
Street fightin' men. Plumber's wrench, heavy for bashin' skulls.
Dougal talkin' philosophy of all.
Certainly different in background. Whillans an inner city working class
lad, Haston a university intellectual. The South Face of Annapurna was
their big combined triumph. Jim Perrin's biography of Whillans, The
Villain, is excellent.
Well part of the problem is that the gentlemen in things like the
Explorers' Club, the AC, and other groups were upper class and the
founders started getting old, the new members weren't as talented, but
stuck to their lists, and easy accomplishments.

The working class only started getting involved in the 1930s and then
became the leaders to a great extent in the 1950s with Whillans and
Brown.

Well G. notes that the English are somewhat rigid and stuck up,
uninteresting food, and other stereotypes.
Indian food had the biggest early influence. Now English
curry dishes
back to India.
Chicken vindaloo?
Chicken Tikka Masala, most popular dish in British restaurants.
Tasty.
Every town has a curry house.
And a chip house.
Sometimes combined Curry and chips.
Delicious.
Pass the malt vinegar?
Not on curry!
Some times yes?

I can't imagine it.

Gordon Ramsey.
Celebrity chefs. There's lots of them. They don't all swear like Ramsey.
Not on some TV.

It's publicity for Ramsey. I've no idea what he cooks but I know he
swears a lot. That's what he's most famous for.

Smoke me a kipper.
It's cold out here, there's no kind of atmosphere.
?
Red Dwarf theme song. That's where
Chicken vindaloo. Smoke me a kipper.
are lines.
I've seen a few episodes but not enough to remember theme songs or catch
phrases.
Small mini-marathons. VCR programming.

I think I'll stick to Dr Who

Britain's history with Afghanistan goes back a long way of course.
Osama, don't surf. Nor ski.

Are you certain of that?

See Kashmir, Pakistan, and India.
Dividing up countries was never a British strongpoint.
Hey Winston was your guy. Some people here suggested 3 distinct Iraqs.

That might have been the best idea originally.

Put the colored man in his place!
And everyone who isn't British, or maybe English - the national anthem
used to contain a verse with the line "rebellious Scots to crush".
You under their thumb?!
That was written at the time of the 1745 Jacobite rebellion, the last
attempt to overthrow the UK government. And the rebellious Scots were
crushed. Mostly by non-rebellious Scots. History never seems to be as
simple as many people would like.

I wonder where Ed is? He like to being up William Wallace and
Braveheart. Still have not seen it. I got the net.pb a PB shirt.

I haven't seen it either. Or heard from Ed in a while.

Are you saying that your ancestors were repressed, too?

They might have been. Some went from Scotland to Ireland and then to
London where they became policeman. I don't know why they left Scotland.
The other half were all Northern English farm and factory workers.

Nationalism is common in a number of countries.
Not necessarily nationalism. Nationalism is strong in Scotland - the
Scottish National Party is in power here - but many people want to stay
in the EU but as Scotland not the UK.
Like Gibraltar? With your own license plates?
License plates certainly. But most importantly direct Scottish
representation.
Tartan kilts on the license plates?
Please no!
Aye, sounds like we drilled a nerve on that one.

Tartan is everywhere in Scotland. Tartan tat some people call it. And of
course most Scots were not Highlanders and never wore tartan anyway.

What then?

A saltire would do.

Adopt the Euro separately.
If Scotland was independent that would be a possibility.
"Freedom!"

Of a sort

I suspect you have varying degrees in education in the UK
Don't all parents worry?
Only as a generalization. If it were truly universal, I doubt we would
have ghetto problems.
The perception of problems vary. Parents in some cultures can worry
about their children getting ideas "above their station".
That's keeping kids in their place.
And suppressing ambition, intellect, drive.....
Parents under threat? Or like Huxley: It's Good to be a Beta. Betas
are above Gammas. Betas don't have to work as hard as Alphas....

Safest in the middle Less pressure, lower expectations.

In article <sDCeHKECfRkIFwP1 at (no spam) auchnarrow.demon.co.uk>,
Chris Townsend <Chris at (no spam) DELETE.auchnarrow.demon.co.uk> wrote:
It's sauna night Chris.
Ski jumps ......
Eddie the Eagle showed you can be incompetent and survive.
Hey so too the Jamacian bob sled team.
That's ambition.
It was Huntsford's Birthday Boys (was it?). Scott and his buddies
...
They did do some training. But their mindset was too rigid to really
take on new ideas. Francis Spufford's book I May Be Some Time is an
The subtitle is "Ice and the English Imagination".
Whom and where do I put down for publisher and publication date?

Faber & Faber. 1996.

London?



Wilson
(looking at their/his cookers). Brits and some Americans take pride in
anti-intellectualism. Gentlemen all. Frozen meat.
Oddly this seemed to apply to polar expeditions but not Himalayan ones.
Mallory was certainly an intellectual and learning and experimenting was
regarded as vital for the Himalayas .
I think Scott was a little bit more nationalistic. Scott had Wilson.
Mallory was a lower guy on the Bruce hierarchy. The navy had better
grounding in their science needs than the Army.
The Navy was the leading organisation in exploration too. The Army had
little to do with that.
Mallory was a schoolteacher. Scott was a career naval man.
Mallory was just getting his start teaching.
Scott's baggage included his beautiful upper class wife.

Scott was definitely interested in social climbing. He saw polar
exploration as furthering his career. Mallory didn't think like that. I
think he enjoyed climbing mountains much more than Scott enjoyed polar
travel.

Well he had also sparked his own competition in Shackleton and Amendson.

The Navy media was Harrison and his recent clock book, but also the
lineage of big guns, fast boats, and cutting down forests to name a few.

The senior service, as it likes to be known.

Armies do not easily take to floating.

The Army would have its transition problems. The Prince still making
news flying about?

So I believe.

Other controversial landing sites?

globalization shipping.
train
mass tourism in Britain. It opened up mountaineering
the Scottish Highlands too.
On the Ben.
Much later. Late 1950s. Tower Ridge was the big early climb. The first
recorded ascent of Ben Nevis was in 1771 by a botanist making a survey.
The first tourist ascent was reckoned to be in 1787. By the 1810s
tourist ascents were common and guides were available in Fort William.
Mountaineering - technical climbs on the cliffs - began in the 1880s.
Botanists made many of the first recorded ascents in the Highlands
Not the early locals?
That's why people talk of first recorded ascents. There are no earlier
records. And nothing on summits to show people had been there.

Well many of the locals didn't care. The Swiss didn't care about the
Matterhorn until Whymper. But him and Hadlow were gentlemen unlike the
guys listed below.

The difference is that there would have been no reason to climb the
Matterhorn and it wouldn't have been easy to do so. Most Scottish
mountains can be walked up. Locals would probably have crossed summits
on hunting trips or while tending sheep or cattle (or rustling them, or
hiding from excise men - many illegal whisky stills were hidden in the
hills).

There was crydtsal collecting.

Instead think Robin Smith, The Bat and the Wicked.
Joe Brown. The BAD boys. Getting drunk, fist fights for the fun of it.
Another use of jam crack tools. Maybe Mods and Rockers.
Don Whillans and Dougal Haston are the key figures here. Real bad boys.
Street fightin' men. Plumber's wrench, heavy for bashin' skulls.
Dougal talkin' philosophy of all.
Certainly different in background. Whillans an inner city working class
lad, Haston a university intellectual. The South Face of Annapurna was
their big combined triumph. Jim Perrin's biography of Whillans, The
Villain, is excellent.
Well part of the problem is that the gentlemen in things like the
Explorers' Club, the AC, and other groups were upper class and the
founders started getting old, the new members weren't as talented, but
stuck to their lists, and easy accomplishments.

The working class only started getting involved in the 1930s and then
became the leaders to a great extent in the 1950s with Whillans and
Brown.

One certainly needed leisure time to go climbing.

On either side of the social spectrum, there lies a leisure class,

Well G. notes that the English are somewhat rigid and stuck up,
uninteresting food, and other stereotypes.
Indian food had the biggest early influence. Now English
curry dishes
back to India.
Chicken vindaloo?
Chicken Tikka Masala, most popular dish in British restaurants.
Tasty.
Every town has a curry house.
And a chip house.
Sometimes combined Curry and chips.
Delicious.
Pass the malt vinegar?
Not on curry!
Some times yes?

I can't imagine it.

A little sour and spicy.

Gordon Ramsey.
Celebrity chefs. There's lots of them. They don't all swear like Ramsey.
Not on some TV.

It's publicity for Ramsey. I've no idea what he cooks but I know he
swears a lot. That's what he's most famous for.

I think he likes to concentrate on things like pork.

Smoke me a kipper.
It's cold out here, there's no kind of atmosphere.
?
Red Dwarf theme song. That's where
Chicken vindaloo. Smoke me a kipper.
are lines.
I've seen a few episodes but not enough to remember theme songs or catch
phrases.
Small mini-marathons. VCR programming.

I think I'll stick to Dr Who :-)

I think I have seen a few of the new Dr.

Nationalism is common in a number of countries.
Not necessarily nationalism. Nationalism is strong in Scotland - the
Scottish National Party is in power here - but many people want to stay
in the EU but as Scotland not the UK.
Like Gibraltar? With your own license plates?
License plates certainly. But most importantly direct Scottish
representation.
Tartan kilts on the license plates?
Please no!
Aye, sounds like we drilled a nerve on that one.

Tartan is everywhere in Scotland. Tartan tat some people call it. And of
course most Scots were not Highlanders and never wore tartan anyway.

A bag of pipes then?

What then?

A saltire would do.

?

Adopt the Euro separately.
If Scotland was independent that would be a possibility.
"Freedom!"

Of a sort :-)

Ah!

In message <48914448$1 at (no spam) darkstar>, Eugene Miya <eugene at (no spam) cse.ucsc.edu
writes
In article <sDCeHKECfRkIFwP1 at (no spam) auchnarrow.demon.co.uk>,
Chris Townsend <Chris at (no spam) DELETE.auchnarrow.demon.co.uk> wrote:
It's sauna night Chris.
Ski jumps ......
Eddie the Eagle showed you can be incompetent and survive.
Hey so too the Jamacian bob sled team.
That's ambition.
It was Huntsford's Birthday Boys (was it?). Scott and his buddies
...
They did do some training. But their mindset was too rigid to really
take on new ideas. Francis Spufford's book I May Be Some Time is an
The subtitle is "Ice and the English Imagination".
Whom and where do I put down for publisher and publication date?

Faber & Faber. 1996.

London?

Your editing is improving.

Scott

Well he had also sparked his own competition in Shackleton and Amendson.

He sparked Shackleton after their expedition together. I think Peary and
Cook sparked Amundsen - he'd have gone to the North Pole if he hadn't
believed they had already reached it.

Well, I think Scott had high hopes for Ernest, then he got ill and
underperformed which only motivated him on his own following trip.

The Navy media was Harrison and his recent clock book, but also the
lineage of big guns, fast boats, and cutting down forests to name a few.
The senior service, as it likes to be known.
Armies do not easily take to floating.

The Spanish found that out :-)

True.
They needed the Dutch.

The Army would have its transition problems. The Prince still making
news flying about?
So I believe.

Other controversial landing sites?

Not since the party, as far as I know. I don't follow royal stories so
only pick them up when they appear in the main news.

They cover only selective Royal news here.
Fortunately, a few Colonists still doth complaint.

It's snowing Chris.
Ski jumps ......
Eddie the Eagle showed you can be incompetent and survive.
Hey so too the Jamacian bob sled team.
That's ambition.
It was Huntsford's Birthday Boys (was it?). Scott and his buddies
They did do some training. But their mindset was too rigid to really
take on new ideas. Francis Spufford's book I May Be Some Time is an
The subtitle is "Ice and the English Imagination".
Whom and where do I put down for publisher and publication date?
Faber & Faber. 1996.
London?

Wilson
(looking at their/his cookers). Brits and some Americans take pride in
anti-intellectualism. Gentlemen all. Frozen meat.
Oddly this seemed to apply to polar expeditions but not Himalayan ones.
Mallory was certainly an intellectual and learning and experimenting was
regarded as vital for the Himalayas .
I think Scott was a little bit more nationalistic. Scott had Wilson.
Mallory was a lower guy on the Bruce hierarchy. The navy had better
grounding in their science needs than the Army.
The Navy was the leading organisation in exploration too. The Army had
little to do with that.
Mallory was a schoolteacher. Scott was a career naval man.
Mallory was just getting his start teaching.
Scott's baggage included his beautiful upper class wife.
Scott was definitely interested in social climbing. He saw polar
exploration as furthering his career. Mallory didn't think like that. I
think he enjoyed climbing mountains much more than Scott enjoyed polar
travel.
Well he had also sparked his own competition in Shackleton and Amendson.

He sparked Shackleton after their expedition together. I think Peary and
Cook sparked Amundsen - he'd have gone to the North Pole if he hadn't
believed they had already reached it.

The Navy media was Harrison and his recent clock book, but also the
lineage of big guns, fast boats, and cutting down forests to name a few.
The senior service, as it likes to be known.
Armies do not easily take to floating.

The Spanish found that out

The Army would have its transition problems. The Prince still making
news flying about?
So I believe.

Other controversial landing sites?

Not since the party, as far as I know. I don't follow royal stories so
only pick them up when they appear in the main news.

globalization shipping.
train
mass tourism in Britain. It opened up mountaineering
the Scottish Highlands too.
On the Ben.
recorded ascent of Ben Nevis was in 1771 by a botanist making a survey.
Botanists made many of the first recorded ascents in the Highlands
Not the early locals?
That's why people talk of first recorded ascents. There are no earlier
records. And nothing on summits to show people had been there.
Well many of the locals didn't care. The Swiss didn't care about the
Matterhorn until Whymper. But him and Hadlow were gentlemen unlike the
guys listed below.
The difference is that there would have been no reason to climb the
Matterhorn and it wouldn't have been easy to do so. Most Scottish
mountains can be walked up. Locals would probably have crossed summits
on hunting trips or while tending sheep or cattle (or rustling them, or
hiding from excise men - many illegal whisky stills were hidden in the
hills).
There was crystal collecting.

In the Alps and the Highlands. People collected crystals called
Cairngorms in the Cairngorms.

Instead think Robin Smith, The Bat and the Wicked.
Joe Brown. The BAD boys. Getting drunk, fist fights for the fun of it.
Another use of jam crack tools. Maybe Mods and Rockers.
Don Whillans and Dougal Haston are the key figures here. Real bad boys.
Street fightin' men. Plumber's wrench, heavy for bashin' skulls.
Dougal talkin' philosophy of all.
Certainly different in background. Whillans an inner city working class
lad, Haston a university intellectual. The South Face of Annapurna was
their big combined triumph. Jim Perrin's biography of Whillans, The
Villain, is excellent.
Well part of the problem is that the gentlemen in things like the
Explorers' Club, the AC, and other groups were upper class and the
founders started getting old, the new members weren't as talented, but
stuck to their lists, and easy accomplishments.

The working class only started getting involved in the 1930s and then
became the leaders to a great extent in the 1950s with Whillans and
Brown.

One certainly needed leisure time to go climbing.

Not necessarily much leisure time. In the 1930s climbers working six
days a week would bicycle out to the crags of the Pennines for a days
climbing. In Scotland they would catch the bus or hitch-hike from the
shipyards of Glasgow to the Arrochar Alps above Loch Lomond.

On either side of the social spectrum, there lies a leisure class,

Indeed. Many climbers were unemployed in the 1930s and so had lots of
time. Some ended up working in the hills, becoming guides or
instructors.

Well G. notes that the English are somewhat rigid and stuck up,
uninteresting food, and other stereotypes.
Indian food had the biggest early influence. Now English
curry dishes
back to India.
Chicken vindaloo?
Chicken Tikka Masala, most popular dish in British restaurants.
Tasty.
Every town has a curry house.
And a chip house.
Sometimes combined Curry and chips.
Delicious.
Pass the malt vinegar?
Not on curry!
Some times yes?

I can't imagine it.

A little sour and spicy.

Vinegar and curry just doesn't sound appealing. I haven't tried it
though.

Gordon Ramsey.
Celebrity chefs. There's lots of them. They don't all swear like Ramsey.
Not on some TV.

It's publicity for Ramsey. I've no idea what he cooks but I know he
swears a lot. That's what he's most famous for.

I think he likes to concentrate on things like pork.

Maybe. I think he mostly concentrates on fame and celebrity.

Smoke me a kipper.
It's cold out here, there's no kind of atmosphere.
?
Red Dwarf theme song. That's where
Chicken vindaloo. Smoke me a kipper.
are lines.
I've seen a few episodes but not enough to remember theme songs or catch
phrases.
Small mini-marathons. VCR programming.

I think I'll stick to Dr Who :-)

I think I have seen a few of the new Dr.

It's pretty good.

Nationalism is common in a number of countries.
Not necessarily nationalism. Nationalism is strong in Scotland - the
Scottish National Party is in power here - but many people want to stay
in the EU but as Scotland not the UK.
Like Gibraltar? With your own license plates?
License plates certainly. But most importantly direct Scottish
representation.
Tartan kilts on the license plates?
Please no!
Aye, sounds like we drilled a nerve on that one.

Tartan is everywhere in Scotland. Tartan tat some people call it. And of
course most Scots were not Highlanders and never wore tartan anyway.

A bag of pipes then?

Another Highland export. You can hear solo pipers on streets in
Edinburgh and in car parks in Glen Coe, sometimes several at once. I
prefer massed pipe bands to solo pipers. The sound is overwhelming.

What then?

A saltire would do.

?

Scotland's national flag - an X-shaped white cross on a blue background.

Adopt the Euro separately.
If Scotland was independent that would be a possibility.
"Freedom!"

Of a sort :-)

Ah!

Well, can any nation be totally independent?

Your editing is improving.
Depends on how much I'm concentrating :-)

Scott

Well he had also sparked his own competition in Shackleton and Amendson.
He sparked Shackleton after their expedition together. I think Peary and
Cook sparked Amundsen - he'd have gone to the North Pole if he hadn't
believed they had already reached it.
Well, I think Scott had high hopes for Ernest, then he got ill and
underperformed which only motivated him on his own following trip.

I don't get the impression that Scott was very good at understanding or
managing people.

The Navy media was Harrison and his recent clock book, but also the
lineage of big guns, fast boats, and cutting down forests to name a few.
The senior service, as it likes to be known.
Armies do not easily take to floating.
The Spanish found that out
True. >>They needed the Dutch.

But never managed to meet up with them. Blown off course some of them
even ended up in the Highlands. There's a Spaniard's Peak in Kintail.

The Army would have its transition problems.
The Prince still making news flying about?
So I believe.
Other controversial landing sites?
Not since the party, as far as I know. I don't follow royal stories so
only pick them up when they appear in the main news.
They cover only selective Royal news here.
Fortunately, a few Colonists still doth complaint.

Some media cover anything Royal here - fact or, if there isn't any,
fiction. Royals sell - the ultimate celebrities.

It's nearly midnight-sunny Chris.
train
mass tourism in Britain. It opened up mountaineering
the Scottish Highlands too.
On the Ben.
recorded ascent of Ben Nevis was in 1771 by a botanist making a survey.
Botanists made many of the first recorded ascents in the Highlands
Not the early locals?
That's why people talk of first recorded ascents. There are no earlier
records. And nothing on summits to show people had been there.
Well many of the locals didn't care. The Swiss didn't care about the
Matterhorn until Whymper. But him and Hadlow were gentlemen unlike the
guys listed below.
The difference is that there would have been no reason to climb the
Matterhorn and it wouldn't have been easy to do so. Most Scottish
mountains can be walked up. Locals would probably have crossed summits
on hunting trips or while tending sheep or cattle (or rustling them, or
hiding from excise men - many illegal whisky stills were hidden in the
hills).
There was crystal collecting.

In the Alps and the Highlands. People collected crystals called
Cairngorms in the Cairngorms.

Stopped here:
Got a plane to catch.

Instead think Robin Smith, The Bat and the Wicked.
Joe Brown. The BAD boys. Getting drunk, fist fights for the fun of it.
Another use of jam crack tools. Maybe Mods and Rockers.
Don Whillans and Dougal Haston are the key figures here. Real bad boys.
Street fightin' men. Plumber's wrench, heavy for bashin' skulls.
Dougal talkin' philosophy of all.
Certainly different in background. Whillans an inner city working class
lad, Haston a university intellectual. The South Face of Annapurna was
their big combined triumph. Jim Perrin's biography of Whillans, The
Villain, is excellent.
Well part of the problem is that the gentlemen in things like the
Explorers' Club, the AC, and other groups were upper class and the
founders started getting old, the new members weren't as talented, but
stuck to their lists, and easy accomplishments.
The working class only started getting involved in the 1930s and then
became the leaders to a great extent in the 1950s with Whillans and
Brown.
One certainly needed leisure time to go climbing.

Not necessarily much leisure time. In the 1930s climbers working six
days a week would bicycle out to the crags of the Pennines for a days
climbing. In Scotland they would catch the bus or hitch-hike from the
shipyards of Glasgow to the Arrochar Alps above Loch Lomond.

On either side of the social spectrum, there lies a leisure class,

Indeed. Many climbers were unemployed in the 1930s and so had lots of
time. Some ended up working in the hills, becoming guides or
instructors.

G. notes that the English are somewhat rigid and stuck up,
uninteresting food, and other stereotypes.
Indian food had the biggest early influence. Now English
curry dishes
back to India.
Chicken vindaloo?
Chicken Tikka Masala, most popular dish in British restaurants.
Tasty.
Every town has a curry house.
And a chip house.
Sometimes combined Curry and chips.
Delicious.
Pass the malt vinegar?
Not on curry!
Some times yes?
I can't imagine it.
A little sour and spicy.

Vinegar and curry just doesn't sound appealing. I haven't tried it
though.

Gordon Ramsey.
Celebrity chefs. There's lots of them. They don't all swear like Ramsey.
Not on some TV.
It's publicity for Ramsey. I've no idea what he cooks but I know he
swears a lot. That's what he's most famous for.
I think he likes to concentrate on things like pork.

Maybe. I think he mostly concentrates on fame and celebrity.

Smoke me a kipper.
Red Dwarf theme song.
I think I'll stick to Dr Who
I think I have seen a few of the new Dr.

It's pretty good.

Nationalism is common in a number of countries.
Not necessarily nationalism. Nationalism is strong in Scotland - the
Scottish National Party is in power - but many people want to stay
in the EU but as Scotland not the UK.
Like Gibraltar? With your own license plates?
License plates certainly. But most importantly direct Scottish
representation.
Tartan kilts on the license plates? >>>>>>Please no!

A bag of pipes then?

Another Highland export. You can hear solo pipers on streets in
Edinburgh and in car parks in Glen Coe, sometimes several at once. I
prefer massed pipe bands to solo pipers. The sound is overwhelming.

What then?
A saltire would do.
Scotland's national flag - an X-shaped white cross on a blue background.

Adopt the Euro separately.
If Scotland was independent that would be a possibility.
"Freedom!"
Of a sort
Ah!

Well, can any nation be totally independent?

Eugene Miya wrote:
I wonder where Ed is?

It's been a busy summer in the hills. Going up Longs tomorrow via
route I haven't done before. 2:00am start, so taking it easy today.

Interestingly, coming in and reading by thread now and enjoying your
guy's thread.

He like to being up William Wallace and
Braveheart. Still have not seen it.

For some reason Anthony Quinn comes to mind, Barrabus and Savage
Innocence. "He had a soft head".

I got the net.pb a PB shirt.
Oh?

Are you saying that your ancestors were repressed, too?

Ain't we all, eh?