...
AFAIK, Mt. Whiney is not visible from the west side (Sequoia and KC), but on
a good day is visible from Death Valley from the eastern ridge, looking
west.
...

In article <77e08204-452c-4060-bf99-f7870a8a8... at (no spam) m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,



y_p_w <y_... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 7, 4:07=A0pm, eug... at (no spam) cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) wrote:
In article <3104fb45-18ec-4b83-816c-55b4dc831... at (no spam) 59g2000hsb.googlegroups.> >com>,y_p_w=A0<y_... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 7, 10:16=3DA0am, "rick++" <rick... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:
Curious, since its not near major cities or
national parks. =3DA0Maybe tours going from L.A. to Yosemite.

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Near is a relative term.
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Whitney is in Sequioa NP.

My map indicates that Whitney Portal is maybe three miles from Mount
Whitney in a straight line. =A0If I'm not mistaken, the summit is right
at the boundary of Sequoia National Park and Inyo National Forest.

I haven't been there, but I thought that you can actually see Mount
Whitney from Whitney Portal. =A0I couldn't see it from any of the roads
in Sequoia or Kings Canyon NPs.

It's been a while, but there's a couple of places near the Portal where
you can see the summit and upper part of the East Buttress.

Again - I was going by some quick and dirty research.

That's fine.

I just typed
Whitney Portal into an image search and came up with photos of Mount
Whitney.  I guess most of them were taken on the way to Whitney Portal
or where it was just in the picture.

You can't see the summit from road end for 2 different reasons: trees
and local topography.

One place you have a good chance (fading memory after coming down from
Mallory, Irvine, McAdie, and all those peaks) is on the Meysin Lake
trail on the final switchback down into the Portal.

The Whitney traffic at the Portal is kind of a pain for anyone not doing
Whitney as an objective.  There's a couple of routes on the S face of
Thor and the East face of Muir I want to do.  Not this month (Alaska),
and likely not this year.

The check is the Star Trek Generations film. =A0There's a cut which start> >s
viewing the Whitney summit (w/o ID) which pans down to a house at
Whitney Portal and then cut inside the house the soon to be dead Capt. Ki> >rk
is making an omelet when Piccard enters.

Lone Pine and Death Valley are trying to build summer and fall tourism
in serious ways beyond existing tourism with the high temps (Europeans)
and fall is when the film festival of films and commercials shot at
Movie Flat are shown. =A0Don't think LA, think LV. =A0The Inyo economy is
seriously hurting.

I thought Germans were the most gung ho Death Valley summer hikers.

It's all Europeans and even now Americans who want to challenge the heat
with their lives.  I've got an Italian post doc who likes the heat.  We
have to drive to Bad Water in a govt. van every so often and collect
samples.  If you are at Bad Water, one of the water instruments there is
ours.

When I visited during a June afternoon, I talked to one of the rangers
there about hiking in the summer, which isn't recommended for obvious
reasons.  Someone wanted to hike from Badwater to Telescope Peak, and

                        This is somewhat common.

apparently attempted it against their strong recommendations against
it.  Don't know if he became vulture food.

On this trip a couple of years ago, I arrived in Bishop without a
reservation (didn't I mention this before?) and was fortunate to fine
                                ??

one of the last rooms in town.  We probably could have made our way to
Mammoth Lakes, but that would have been pricier.  I noticed even in
                                        40 miles, too
small towns in the middle of nowhere, many of the retail businesses
are run by immigrant families from South Asia and the Middle East.
Must be a real culture shock for them.

They are very adaptable.  You mean towns like Paradise?  Pine Creek?
Laws?  They are also in the Central Valley all over the place.

KC has only one road and there's no way you can see Whitney from that
road which is in the Kern not Kings drainage (the bottom of). =A0I tend t> >o
doubt that you can see Whitney from the West from a road (it would have t> >o
be Moro Rock) because you have to look above and behind some seriously ta> >ll
ridges and peaks. =A0I'm trying to remember if you could see it from
Alta (I tend to think not). =A0You also have to distinguish it from the
West from other similar looking plateaus.

There's an interpretive sign at Moro Rock that shows all the mountains
within view.  It mentions that Whitney isn't visible because the view
is blocked.  At the Roads End permit station in KC, nothing much is
visible because there are just way too many trees.

You are also down in a deep valley.  But go up 9K ft. to Brewer or North
Guard and you can see it.

Movie Flat are shown. Don't think LA, think LV. The Inyo economy is
seriously hurting.

In article <sHOck.1127$bn3.464 at (no spam) trnddc07>,
Wayne <mygarbagecan at (no spam) verizon.net> wrote:
The attitude of Owens Valley residents is interesting. Living there is a
lifestyle choice, not always with money in mind.

Well it's one thing if you are young, white, and have some money.
It's another if you are a long time white resident, and another thing if
say you are a Paiute (one old mentor used to teach them for Kinmont).

So for example, an
enlarged airport up north at Mammoth would give all of the residents more
access to the outside world when they want it, it would bring an influx of
visitors who might impact the way of life. Development down around Big
Pine, Independence, Lone Pine and Olancha is somewhat hampered by the
large
land holdings of LA Water and Power. On the plus side, LAWP has a lot of
good paying jobs.

LAWP is true. I know a couple of them as well as, sworn to secrecy, some
of the descendents who blew up the aquaduct up some decades back.

I'm not so sure abut the airport. Every small airline (I flew once out
of Santa Monica on one which failed) has gone belly up.

Olancha hasn't changed too much except with the huge Crystal Gyser plant.

I haven't seen many changes along that part of 395 in 20 years, except
that
there are several sections of 4 lane roads. I'd like to see it stay much
as
it is, but....I don't have to make a living there.

20 years? '88.
Let's see 4 lanes added many places. Failed attempts at businesses in
Big Pine. Austin's shakes came and went in Independence. Bishop's part
of 395 has added a lot of new businesses. Erick's bakery has expanded.
Branches have failed (June Lake and Mammoth) and come and gone {to my
surprise also Calistoga and Ukiah (3)}.
Mammoth grew a lot. Luther Motors very nicely helped me out with
friends there (replaced a head gasket on my Trooper).
If you went back before '88, there was Tokiwa's (which
actually I think started near Red Rocks (before my time) which went to
Independence (the first time I ever ate with them), then two different
Bishop locations. Also do not forget the Indian casino.

Wheeler & Wilson because Wilson's, then the resoling part became The
Rubber Room. Galen (and Barbara, not that I knew him well) came and
they died taking over old of the old banks. Vern opened up a photo
gallery to compete with Galen's kids'. Long Valley has grown.

Bishop has changed a lot but its growth is constrainted by LA DWP.

Inyo County was given to me as an example of 4 CA State counties of the
range of state health by a State CIO. Inyo wasn't a problem. It's one
of the least connected counties in CA.
At the time (10 years+ ago) it was Plumas County which stumped me.
They now have a multi billion DOD contract for training counties to use
the new Global Hawk UAV, and they can't offer any geeks to work for
Northrup Grumman. Just flew over Beale AFB (this must mean that
U-2s aren't long for the world).

Wow, I had forgotten about a lot of that history! I do remember the bakery

On Jul 4, 10:29 pm, Wayne <H8Mi... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[annoying tour buses at trailhead story snipped]

Consider the pressures of an aging population with retirement income.

Chances are that such things are only going to be more common.

Such folks are also unlikely to be "indoctrinated" with the
leave-no-trace mentality. Though they may be old-time hikers
who have gotten to the point where their knees won't take
long hikes any more.  My knees do tend to make scary
creaking noises more each year.

I dread the day when enough people who can't hike want to
put in an elevator or tram or something in the Grand Canyon
that it starts to get seriously considered by various govts.
I think things like that would be a desecration. Next thing
you know there'd be hot dog carts, ice cream stands, t-shirt
stores, chain-coffee places, internet cafes, and cheap motels.
What would be the point of going at all?
Socks

The attitude of Owens Valley residents is interesting.

Wow, I had forgotten about a lot of that history! I do remember the bakery
chains opening and closing, and some restaurants coming and going.
Something stuck out this trip, as I missed the creek turnoff in Big Pine,
because I was expecting a blinking light at the intersection. It isn't
there, and the name of the street has changed.

In Lone Pine, the motel we were in was mostly german tourists, and downtown
there were two relatively expensive restaurants. But the Ranch House in
Olancha is doing fine, as is the Lone Pine quanset hut auto repair business
(probably with new management) that kindly helped me out 15 years ago late
on a Saturday night. Great folks in those small towns!

I dread the day when enough people who can't hike want to
put in an elevator or tram or something in the Grand Canyon
that it starts to get seriously considered by various govts.

On Jul 7, 5:28 pm, "Wayne" <mygarbage... at (no spam) verizon.net> wrote:

...
AFAIK, Mt. Whiney is not visible from the west side (Sequoia and KC), but
on
a good day is visible from Death Valley from the eastern ridge, looking
west.
...

On a good day Whitney is visible from the west ridge of Death Valley
(Panamint Range):
http://dbdimages.smugmug.com/gallery/1491201_giFzu#116892359_RD6jr

From the east ridge, Dante's View, there are some 14,000' peaks
visible, but not Whitney. This image is from the top of Dante's point,
the high point on the ridge climbed to the north from Dante's View:
http://dbdimages.smugmug.com/gallery/1591637_Cg8ZD#268515371_JP7Kw-L-LB
Whitney's position behind the ridge is marked.

Split Mountain which is visible has been identified by some as
Whitney, which isn't visible.

Dale B. Dalrymple
http://dbdimages.com

On Jul 9, 12:41 pm, Puppet_Sock <puppet_s... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 4, 10:29 pm, Wayne <H8Mi... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[annoying tour buses at trailhead story snipped]

Consider the pressures of an aging population with retirement income.

Chances are that such things are only going to be more common.

Such folks are also unlikely to be "indoctrinated" with the
leave-no-trace mentality. Though they may be old-time hikers
who have gotten to the point where their knees won't take
long hikes any more.  My knees do tend to make scary
creaking noises more each year.

I dread the day when enough people who can't hike want to
put in an elevator or tram or something in the Grand Canyon
that it starts to get seriously considered by various govts.
I think things like that would be a desecration. Next thing
you know there'd be hot dog carts, ice cream stands, t-shirt
stores, chain-coffee places, internet cafes, and cheap motels.
What would be the point of going at all?
Socks

Well - some parts of the world this has already happened. Go on
vacation in China some time. A place like Huangshan National Park has
cable cars for those who don't want to hike their way up to the top.

You figure that eventually there's going to be some sort of motorized
transport to the top of Half Dome?

On Jul 9, 12:41 pm, Puppet_Sock <puppet_s... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:

I dread the day when enough people who can't hike want to
put in an elevator or tram or something in the Grand Canyon
that it starts to get seriously considered by various govts.

The Hualapai are considering building a cable car down to the Colorado
River.  This would be on a portion of the Grand Canyon owned by the
tribe.  They already built the skywalk.

On Jul 9, 6:55 pm,y_p_w<y_... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:

On Jul 9, 12:41 pm, Puppet_Sock <puppet_s... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:

I dread the day when enough people who can't hike want to
put in an elevator or tram or something in the Grand Canyon
that it starts to get seriously considered by various govts.

The Hualapai are considering building a cable car down to the Colorado
River.  This would be on a portion of the Grand Canyon owned by the
tribe.  They already built the skywalk.

Sigh. Is there any nice way we can influence them away from it?
I don't know. Asking nicely? Offering to pay for hiking trips?
Offering to hire them as guides? What have we got that they
want that it would be considered polite of us to offer?
Socks

In article <VdXRQ+FgQTdIFwBt at (no spam) auchnarrow.demon.co.uk>,
Chris Townsend <Chris at (no spam) DELETE.auchnarrow.demon.co.uk> wrote:

Never mind China. Try the Alps.

Depends on the country.

The Italians, Germans, French, and Austrians (and Lichtensteiners) live
in the valleys.

The Swiss live on mountains sides. They have to.
That's all they got. Their trams, funiculars, trains, bridges, tunnels,
and ski lifts are stategic resources. That's access to air defense,
missile batteries, and artillery. Mountains there aren't wilderness;
they are the defense of the country.

They have 1 Natl. Park.

One more than Scotland until a few years ago.

On Jul 9, 6:55=A0pm, y_p_w <y_... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 9, 12:41=A0pm, Puppet_Sock <puppet_s... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:
I dread the day when enough people who can't hike want to
put in an elevator or tram or something in the Grand Canyon
that it starts to get seriously considered by various govts.

The Hualapai are considering building a cable car down to the Colorado
River. =A0This would be on a portion of the Grand Canyon owned by the
tribe. =A0They already built the skywalk.

Sigh. Is there any nice way we can influence them away from it?

I don't know. Asking nicely?

Offering to pay for hiking trips?

Offering to hire them as guides?

What have we got that they
want that it would be considered polite of us to offer?

In message
5db4b229-388c-4a46-bb46-ac1d7cf8fe36 at (no spam) j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
y_p_w <y_p_w at (no spam) hotmail.com> writes
On Jul 9, 12:41 pm, Puppet_Sock <puppet_s... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 4, 10:29 pm, Wayne <H8Mi... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[annoying tour buses at trailhead story snipped]

Consider the pressures of an aging population with retirement income.

Chances are that such things are only going to be more common.

Such folks are also unlikely to be "indoctrinated" with the
leave-no-trace mentality. Though they may be old-time hikers
true, but they have ATVs and places for them
who have gotten to the point where their knees won't take
long hikes any more. My knees do tend to make scary
creaking noises more each year.

I dread the day when enough people who can't hike want to
put in an elevator or tram or something in the Grand Canyon
that it starts to get seriously considered by various govts.
I think things like that would be a desecration. Next thing
you know there'd be hot dog carts, ice cream stands, t-shirt
stores, chain-coffee places, internet cafes, and cheap motels.
What would be the point of going at all?

Well - some parts of the world this has already happened. Go on
vacation in China some time. A place like Huangshan National Park has
cable cars for those who don't want to hike their way up to the top.

You figure that eventually there's going to be some sort of motorized
transport to the top of Half Dome?

Never mind China. Try the Alps.

In message <4876af17$1 at (no spam) darkstar>, Eugene Miya <eugene at (no spam) cse.ucsc.edu
writes
In article <VdXRQ+FgQTdIFwBt at (no spam) auchnarrow.demon.co.uk>,
Chris Townsend <Chris at (no spam) DELETE.auchnarrow.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Never mind China. Try the Alps.

Depends on the country.

Partly. The worst developments are in France.

The Italians, Germans, French, and Austrians (and Lichtensteiners) live
in the valleys.

But still build ski lifts, high level resorts etc.

The Swiss live on mountains sides. They have to.
That's all they got. Their trams, funiculars, trains, bridges, tunnels,
and ski lifts are stategic resources. That's access to air defense,
missile batteries, and artillery. Mountains there aren't wilderness;
they are the defense of the country.

& the income, in part. Tourism is big business.

They have 1 Natl. Park.

One more than Scotland until a few years ago.

I'll be looking at Switzerland next week. Across Lake Constance from
Friedrichshafen, where I'll be wandering round at the huge OutDoor show
seeing gear.