On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 13:17:08 GMT, ppnerkDELETETHIS@yahoo.com (Phred) wrote:
In article <btnr77$ouu$1@kermit.esat.net>, "pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote:
..
Diet related disorders Deaths per year (US)
-------------------------------------------------
heart disease 709,894
stroke 166,028
diabetes 68,662
hypertension 17,964
Nephritis 37,672
Chronic Liver Disease/Cirrhosis 26,219
many cancers (colon, prostate, mouth,
throat, esophagus, lung, stomach) 551,833 (- largely diet related)

(data from http://www.cspinet.org/nutritionpolicy/nutrition_policy.html )

Hang on! That ASH mob claims most of these problems are due to
smoking. Do we count them all twice?

Well, if we add the figures there are 1,500,000 deaths there Surely we
could have Meat Eating Kills Hundreds of Thousands, while still
leaving Most of Them to be Killed by Smoking. Who is the ASH mob?

Diet related disorders Deaths per year (US)
-------------------------------------------------
heart disease 709,894
stroke 166,028
diabetes 68,662
hypertension 17,964
Nephritis 37,672
Chronic Liver Disease/Cirrhosis 26,219
many cancers (colon, prostate, mouth,
throat, esophagus, lung, stomach) 551,833 (- largely diet related)
...
Cigarette Smoking-Related Mortality Total
------------------------------------------------------

Cardiovascular Diseases 179,820
Respiratory Diseases 84,475
All Causes 418,690

http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/research_data/health_consequences/mortali.htm

Diet related disorders Deaths per year (US)
-------------------------------------------------
heart disease 709,894
stroke 166,028
diabetes 68,662
hypertension 17,964
Nephritis 37,672
Chronic Liver Disease/Cirrhosis 26,219
many cancers (colon, prostate, mouth,
throat, esophagus, lung, stomach) 551,833 (- largely diet
related)
..
Cigarette Smoking-Related Mortality Total
------------------------------------------------------
Cancers 151,322
Cardiovascular Diseases 179,820
Respiratory Diseases 84,475
All Causes 418,690


http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/research_data/health_consequences/mortali.htm

"pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
news:btqa1m$it7$1@kermit.esat.net...
Diet related disorders Deaths per year (US)
-------------------------------------------------
heart disease 709,894
stroke 166,028
diabetes 68,662
hypertension 17,964
Nephritis 37,672
Chronic Liver Disease/Cirrhosis 26,219
many cancers (colon, prostate, mouth,
throat, esophagus, lung, stomach) 551,833 (- largely diet
related)
..
Cigarette Smoking-Related Mortality Total
------------------------------------------------------
Cancers 151,322
Cardiovascular Diseases 179,820
Respiratory Diseases 84,475
All Causes 418,690


http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/research_data/health_consequences/mortali.htm


At what age do these deaths occur? To be honest I really don't care what
I die of once I get past 105.

What do vegetarians generally die of? Since they must surely die eventually
even if they do average rather more than others.What is it 40 years more
than others, or 50, or what? Surely it makes no sense to never eat meat if
it extends lifespan by only a matter of months?

Does 30 minutes or so of 'pleasure' a day eating fatty-foods compensate
for feeling miserable, possibly in pain, for most of the time?

"Michael Saunby" <msaunby@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:btr99n$och$1$830fa79d@news.demon.co.uk...

"pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
news:btqa1m$it7$1@kermit.esat.net...
Diet related disorders Deaths per year (US)
-------------------------------------------------
heart disease 709,894
stroke 166,028
diabetes 68,662
hypertension 17,964
Nephritis 37,672
Chronic Liver Disease/Cirrhosis 26,219
many cancers (colon, prostate, mouth,
throat, esophagus, lung, stomach) 551,833 (- largely diet
related)
..
Cigarette Smoking-Related Mortality Total
------------------------------------------------------
Cancers 151,322
Cardiovascular Diseases 179,820
Respiratory Diseases 84,475
All Causes 418,690



http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/research_data/health_consequences/mortali.htm


At what age do these deaths occur? To be honest I really don't care
what
I die of once I get past 105.

What do vegetarians generally die of? Since they must surely die
eventually
even if they do average rather more than others.What is it 40 years
more
than others, or 50, or what? Surely it makes no sense to never eat
meat if
it extends lifespan by only a matter of months?

What you seem to be failing to take into consideration is QUALITY of life
in the years preceding death, whether it's sooner or later.

Your health affects your well-being, in _every_ sense.

Does 30 minutes or so of 'pleasure' a day eating fatty-foods compensate
for feeling miserable, possibly in pain, for most of the time?

"pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
Does 30 minutes or so of 'pleasure' a day eating fatty-foods compensate
for feeling miserable, possibly in pain, for most of the time?

the really fatous bit about that comment is that it is made to an audience
of meat eaters who look at each other wondering what is all this feeling
miserable and pain she is on about.

I can assure you that I eat meat at least twice a day and feel absolutely no
misery or pain,

Jim Webster

"Jim Webster" <Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:btreai$nrf$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...


I can assure you that I eat meat at least twice a day and feel
absolutely no
misery or pain,

Based on your rep', I can assure you that I don't believe a word you say.

"pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
..
What you seem to be failing to take into consideration is QUALITY of life
in the years preceding death, whether it's sooner or later.

Vegetarians do not seem to have a significantly better quality of life,

particularly not the preaching kind

who seem to suffer great distress as a result of other folks diets.

Your health affects your well-being, in _every_ sense.

Does 30 minutes or so of 'pleasure' a day eating fatty-foods compensate
for feeling miserable, possibly in pain, for most of the time?

Of course if it makes you feel unwell then it makes perfect sense for you
not to eat meat, or at least consider also taking anti-depressants too.

Most people don't descend into self hatred after eating meat so it's not a
valid health concern.

What do vegetarians die of? I suspect that they actually die of exactly
the same causes as everyone else - or suicide.

"Jim Webster" <Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:btreai$nrf$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...

"pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
Does 30 minutes or so of 'pleasure' a day eating fatty-foods
compensate
for feeling miserable, possibly in pain, for most of the time?

the really fatous bit about that comment is that it is made to an
audience
of meat eaters who look at each other wondering what is all this
feeling
miserable and pain she is on about.

One in five will disagree with you, for a start.
'Most adults in England are overweight, and one in five - around 8
million
in total - is obese, says a government report. If the current trend
continues,
by 2005 a quarter of women and a fifth of men could be obese.'
http://www.disabilityuk.com/health/obesity/health3.htm

Weight Gain Reduces Quality of Life
Gaining up to 20 pounds over four years can significantly decrease
quality
of life, according to a study in the Dec. 8 issue of the Journal of the
American
Medical Association.

The study asked over 40,000 women to rate their ability to perform simple
tasks, their experience with bodily pain, and their overall vitality
during the
study period to determine how weight gain or loss affects quality of
life.
The study, which tracked the women over 4 years, found that a weight gain
of 5-20 pounds resulted in decreased physical functioning and lower
overall
feelings of vitality. Weight gain also increased feelings of bodily pain.
http://www.annecollins.com/diet_news/obesity-quality-life.htm

Almost one in three is |suffering| from chronic disease;

'Almost a million people are waiting for elective surgery, of whom 70%
will be seen within three months. Compare this with the 17.5 million
people who are suffering from chronic diseases which, although
debilitating and often incurable, can with good management allow the
sufferers to live active lives. The diseases include diabetes (1.5
million),
asthma (3.4 million), arthritis (8.5 million) and, largest of all, mental
ill
health. Not all of these patients are elderly; some 13 million of them
are aged 65 and under, including 1.5 million children.
http://society.guardian.co.uk/nhsplan/comment/0,8005,1103645,00.html

Sounds just hunky dory, *not*.

BTW
'.. the main causes of premature mortality are coronary heart disease
and cancer. Between them they account for 35% of premature life years
lost. The two chronic diseases are strongly related to lifestyle factors:
smoking, poor diet, physical inactivity and excess alcohol. '
http://society.guardian.co.uk/nhsplan/comment/0,8005,1103645,00.html

I can assure you that I eat meat at least twice a day and feel
absolutely no
misery or pain,

Based on your rep', I can assure you that I don't believe a word you say.

"Michael Saunby" <msaunby@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:btrjgt$m70$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...

What do vegetarians die of? I suspect that they actually die of
exactly
the same causes as everyone else - or suicide.

Old age for the most part, I imagine.

"pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
news:btrl6k$5i2$1@kermit.esat.net...
"Jim Webster" <Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:btreai$nrf$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...

I can assure you that I eat meat at least twice a day and feel absolutely no
misery or pain,

Based on your rep', I can assure you that I don't believe a word you say.

hey, and all those millions and millions of meat eaters, the vast majority
of the population (95% in the UK) are all suffering heroically as they force
down that next piece of meat.

Indeed so dedicated are they to a life of misery that many vegetarians miss
it so much that they go back to eating meat.

Hell it makes you kind of proud to be a meat eater

"Jim Webster" <Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:btrmob$14a$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...

"pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
news:btrl6k$5i2$1@kermit.esat.net...
"Jim Webster" <Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:btreai$nrf$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...

I can assure you that I eat meat at least twice a day and feel
absolutely no
misery or pain,

Based on your rep', I can assure you that I don't believe a word you
say.

hey, and all those millions and millions of meat eaters, the vast
majority
of the population (95% in the UK) are all suffering heroically as they
force
down that next piece of meat.

About 29% of those millions and millions is suffering heroically, jim.

Indeed so dedicated are they to a life of misery that many vegetarians
miss
it so much that they go back to eating meat.

I've spoken with past vegetarians who'd returned to eating meat,
albeit in moderate amounts. The reason often seems to involve a
meat-eating partner and familly. They don't seem too happy
about it though, and often say they'd like to be vegetarian again.

Hell it makes you kind of proud to be a meat eater

What does?

"pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
news:btrl6k$5i2$1@kermit.esat.net...
"Jim Webster" <Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:btreai$nrf$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...

"pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
Does 30 minutes or so of 'pleasure' a day eating fatty-foods compensate
for feeling miserable, possibly in pain, for most of the time?

the really fatous bit about that comment is that it is made to an audience
of meat eaters who look at each other wondering what is all this feeling
miserable and pain she is on about.

One in five will disagree with you, for a start.
'Most adults in England are overweight, and one in five - around 8 million
in total - is obese, says a government report. If the current trend continues,
by 2005 a quarter of women and a fifth of men could be obese.'
http://www.disabilityuk.com/health/obesity/health3.htm

But the other 80% are not vegetarians, they're also eating meat, it's just
that they're doing it intelligently.

Weight Gain Reduces Quality of Life
Gaining up to 20 pounds over four years can significantly decrease quality
of life, according to a study in the Dec. 8 issue of the Journal of the American
Medical Association.

So? I expect some vegetarians can't eat all they'd like to either and must
make some effort to control their weight. So called ethical vegetarian
have no automatic advantage here.

The study asked over 40,000 women to rate their ability to perform simple
tasks, their experience with bodily pain, and their overall vitality during the
study period to determine how weight gain or loss affects quality of life.
The study, which tracked the women over 4 years, found that a weight gain
of 5-20 pounds resulted in decreased physical functioning and lower overall
feelings of vitality. Weight gain also increased feelings of bodily pain.
http://www.annecollins.com/diet_news/obesity-quality-life.htm

Almost one in three is |suffering| from chronic disease;

'Almost a million people are waiting for elective surgery, of whom 70%
will be seen within three months. Compare this with the 17.5 million
people who are suffering from chronic diseases which, although
debilitating and often incurable, can with good management allow the
sufferers to live active lives. The diseases include diabetes (1.5 million),
asthma (3.4 million), arthritis (8.5 million) and, largest of all, mental ill
health. Not all of these patients are elderly; some 13 million of them
are aged 65 and under, including 1.5 million children.
http://society.guardian.co.uk/nhsplan/comment/0,8005,1103645,00.html

Sounds just hunky dory, *not*.

BTW
'.. the main causes of premature mortality are coronary heart disease
and cancer. Between them they account for 35% of premature life years
lost. The two chronic diseases are strongly related to lifestyle factors:
smoking, poor diet, physical inactivity and excess alcohol. '
http://society.guardian.co.uk/nhsplan/comment/0,8005,1103645,00.html

What do vegetarians die of and how much better is their quality of life
beyond 70 than for normal folk?

It's all very well claiming that eating meat kills people,

but you've yet to provide any evidence that vegetarians
don't die,

or that they die at a significantly greater age, or that they
are more intelligent, or more virile, or better looking, or wealthier, or
even healthier than other folks.

The only thing evident so far is that
they have a poorer standard of mental health.

"pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
news:btro43$6hb$1@kermit.esat.net...
"Jim Webster" <Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:btrmob$14a$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...

"pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote in message
news:btrl6k$5i2$1@kermit.esat.net...
"Jim Webster" <Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:btreai$nrf$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...

I can assure you that I eat meat at least twice a day and feel absolutely no
misery or pain,

Based on your rep', I can assure you that I don't believe a word you say.

hey, and all those millions and millions of meat eaters, the vast majority
of the population (95% in the UK) are all suffering heroically as they force
down that next piece of meat.

About 29% of those millions and millions is suffering heroically, jim.

actually as people get more prosperous they eat more meat, the Chinese, lord
love them, are importing more soya than ever they grow just to feed their
own pigs, poultry and fish.

Indeed so dedicated are they to a life of misery that many vegetarians miss
it so much that they go back to eating meat.

I've spoken with past vegetarians who'd returned to eating meat,
albeit in moderate amounts. The reason often seems to involve a
meat-eating partner and familly. They don't seem too happy
about it though, and often say they'd like to be vegetarian again.

awww poor dears, willing to endure that terrible pain, forced to consume
meat at vast personal misery, just because their cruel partner insisted.

Such dedication to holding the relationship together, such self sacrifice,
wait while I dab away a tear

Hell it makes you kind of proud to be a meat eater

What does?

such heroic self sacrifice, such willingness to face unendurable pain and
misery

Jim Webster