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| PAUL JACOBY |
 Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:32 pm |
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Guest
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I would like to get some opinions about interpreting Newton's laws of
motion.
I feel that all he meant was that if you want to move an object then you
must have a second object involved (to hit it or attract it).
Outside or external means "other than"
--
------------------- SOME THOUGHTS --------------------------
"The art of invention is to do what others think impossible"
How do you know if an invention is revolutionary?
Count the experts that say it is impossible.
THINK CAREFULLY -- IT'S DANGEROUS
EXCELLENCE IS ALWAYS HIDDEN IN THE DETAILS pj
pjacoby@charter.net
http://newlifter.tripod.com/ |
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| Franz Heymann |
| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:00 am |
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Guest
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"PAUL JACOBY" <pjacoby@charter.net> wrote in message
news:eNYLd.5556$Ge.5064@fe06.lga...
[quote:7c012e9bf3]I would like to get some opinions about interpreting Newton's laws
of
motion.
I feel that all he meant was that if you want to move an object then
you
must have a second object involved (to hit it or attract it).
Outside or external means "other than"
[/quote:7c012e9bf3]
No. That was not all he meant.
He actually had something quantitative to say.
Franz |
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| PAUL JACOBY |
| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:35 am |
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Guest
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Franz Heymann wrote:
[quote:aacb417d26]"PAUL JACOBY" <pjacoby@charter.net> wrote in message
news:eNYLd.5556$Ge.5064@fe06.lga...
I would like to get some opinions about interpreting Newton's laws
of
motion.
I feel that all he meant was that if you want to move an object then
you
must have a second object involved (to hit it or attract it).
Outside or external means "other than"
No. That was not all he meant.
He actually had something quantitative to say.
Franz
quantitative?[/quote:aacb417d26]
I see quantitative in the third law but not in the first or second.
Do see it in the first or second?
--
------------------- SOME THOUGHTS --------------------------
"The art of invention is to do what others think impossible"
How do you know if an invention is revolutionary?
Count the experts that say it is impossible.
THINK CAREFULLY -- IT'S DANGEROUS
EXCELLENCE IS ALWAYS HIDDEN IN THE DETAILS pj
pjacoby@charter.net
http://newlifter.tripod.com/ |
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| Sam Wormley |
| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:58 am |
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Guest
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PAUL JACOBY wrote:
[quote:7ac1443c68]I would like to get some opinions about interpreting Newton's laws of
motion.
I feel that all he meant was that if you want to move an object then you
must have a second object involved (to hit it or attract it).
Outside or external means "other than"
[/quote:7ac1443c68]
Implicit in the second law is a reference, and motion is always with
respect to something.
Newton's Second Law
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/NewtonsSecondLaw.html
Newton had is right, F = dp/dt is right on!
"The motion of a particle is described by Euler's statement of Newton's
second law, namely
F = ma
Here F is the applied force, m is the mass of the particle, and
a = dv/dt is the particle's acceleration, with v being the particle's
velocity. This equation, together with the principle that bodies act
symmetrically on one another--so that the force particle A feels from
particle B is equal to the force B feels from A--is the basis for
understanding particle dynamics".
"Newton's law completely describes all the phenomena of classical
mechanics...." |
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| Franz Heymann |
| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:13 am |
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"PAUL JACOBY" <pjacoby@charter.net> wrote in message
news:WC5Md.18679$%g7.13808@fe06.lga...
[quote:de831d0b61]Franz Heymann wrote:
"PAUL JACOBY" <pjacoby@charter.net> wrote in message
news:eNYLd.5556$Ge.5064@fe06.lga...
I would like to get some opinions about interpreting Newton's laws
of
motion.
I feel that all he meant was that if you want to move an object
then
you
must have a second object involved (to hit it or attract it).
Outside or external means "other than"
No. That was not all he meant.
He actually had something quantitative to say.
Franz
quantitative?
I see quantitative in the third law but not in the first or second.
Do see it in the first or second?
[/quote:de831d0b61]
He made enough quantitative statements to bring into being the whole
of Newtonian mechanics.
Franz |
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| tj Frazir |
| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:20 am |
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Re: Newton's laws
[quote:8c3e926f52]Snip wrong , atoms push them selves.
then you must have a second object i;;;[/quote:8c3e926f52]
Newton had is right, F = dp/dt is right on!
"
F is the gain in mass and up is a gain in mass SAM . M is the wieght
of the atom befor the gain in mass .
Gravity is the energy slope across the atom.
all the mass of the atom falls twards its center.
Atoms change mass at C.
So the tom has more mass falling twards its center from one side than
the other and the atom pushes its self down the energy slope .
V will be the same for evry atom as the mass gain pushes the wieght and
the gain is allways proportinal to the mass.
SAM wrote
[quote:8c3e926f52] F
= ma[/quote:8c3e926f52]
Here F is the applied force, m is the mass of the
particle, and a = dv/dt is the particle's acceleration, with v being
the particle's velocity. This equation, together with the principle
that bodies act symmetrically on one another--so that the force
particle A feels from particle B is equal to the force B feels from
A--is the basis for understanding particle dynamics".
"Newton's law completely describes all the phenomena
of classical mechanics...." |
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| tj Frazir |
| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:21 am |
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Guest
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Re: Newton's laws
[quote:a025e6d66a]Snip wrong , atoms push them selves.
then you must have a second object i;;;[/quote:a025e6d66a]
Newton had is right, F = dp/dt is right on!
"
F is the gain in mass and up is a gain in mass SAM . M is the wieght
of the atom befor the gain in mass .
Gravity is the energy slope across the atom.
all the mass of the atom falls twards its center.
Atoms change mass at C.
So the tom has more mass falling twards its center from one side than
the other and the atom pushes its self down the energy slope .
V will be the same for evry atom as the mass gain pushes the wieght and
the gain is allways proportinal to the mass.
SAM wrote
[quote:a025e6d66a] F
= ma[/quote:a025e6d66a]
Here F is the applied force, m is the mass of the
particle, and a = dv/dt is the particle's acceleration, with v being
the particle's velocity. This equation, together with the principle
that bodies act symmetrically on one another--so that the force
particle A feels from particle B is equal to the force B feels from
A--is the basis for understanding particle dynamics".
"Newton's law completely describes all the phenomena
of classical mechanics...." |
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| Uncle Al |
| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:59 am |
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PAUL JACOBY wrote:
[quote:1f6d0cc286]
I would like to get some opinions about interpreting Newton's laws of
motion.
I feel that all he meant was that if you want to move an object then you
must have a second object involved (to hit it or attract it).
Outside or external means "other than"
[/quote:1f6d0cc286]
Newton, Isaac. 1687, "Philosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica"
("Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy and his System of the
World"), trans. by A. Motte and revised by F. Cajori (University of
California Press: Berkeley, 1934)
Newton, Isaac. "The Principia: Mathematical Principles of Natural
Philosophy Trans." I. Bernard Cohen and Anne Whitman, with the
assistance of Julia Budenz (University of California Press: Berkeley,
1999)
1) You are wholly unaware of what you speak.
2) After 319 years nothing new remains to be said on the subject.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf |
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| PAUL JACOBY |
| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:03 pm |
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Guest
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Sam Wormley wrote:
[quote:65a62680e5]PAUL JACOBY wrote:
I would like to get some opinions about interpreting Newton's laws of
motion.
I feel that all he meant was that if you want to move an object then
you must have a second object involved (to hit it or attract it).
Outside or external means "other than"
[/quote:65a62680e5]
But the point I want to clarify is, Does it make any difference if the
contact point is what we call an inside surface or an outside surface?
I say no. pj
[quote:65a62680e5]Implicit in the second law is a reference, and motion is always with
respect to something.
Newton's Second Law
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/NewtonsSecondLaw.html
Newton had is right, F = dp/dt is right on!
"The motion of a particle is described by Euler's statement of Newton's
second law, namely
F = ma
Here F is the applied force, m is the mass of the particle, and
a = dv/dt is the particle's acceleration, with v being the particle's
velocity. This equation, together with the principle that bodies act
symmetrically on one another--so that the force particle A feels from
particle B is equal to the force B feels from A--is the basis for
understanding particle dynamics".
"Newton's law completely describes all the phenomena of classical
mechanics...."
[/quote:65a62680e5]
--
------------------- SOME THOUGHTS --------------------------
"The art of invention is to do what others think impossible"
How do you know if an invention is revolutionary?
Count the experts that say it is impossible.
THINK CAREFULLY -- IT'S DANGEROUS
EXCELLENCE IS ALWAYS HIDDEN IN THE DETAILS pj
pjacoby@charter.net
http://newlifter.tripod.com/ |
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| tj Frazir |
| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:46 pm |
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What would be new ,,is if you understood.
Atoms pussh them selves down energy slopes.
Re: Newton's laws
The gain in mass is F pushing te wieght of the atom.
Newton had is right, F = dp/dt is right on!
"
F is the gain in mass and up is a gain in mass SAM . M is the
wieght
of the atom befor the gain in mass .
Gravity is the energy slope across the atom. all the mass of the
atom falls twards its center. Atoms change mass at C.
So the tom has more mass falling twards its center from one side
than the other and the atom pushes its self down the energy slope .
V will be the same for evry atom as the mass gain pushes the
wieght and the gain is allways proportinal to the mass.
SAM wrote
F
= ma
Here F is the applied force, m is the mass of the
particle, and a = dv/dt is the particle's acceleration, with v being
the particle's velocity. This equation, together with the principle
that bodies act symmetrically on one another--so that the force
particle A feels from particle B is equal to the force B feels from
A--is the basis for understanding particle dynamics".
"Newton's law completely describes all the phenomena
of classical mechanics...." |
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| PAUL JACOBY |
| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:28 pm |
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Guest
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Uncle Al wrote:
[quote:e8eb7a3939]PAUL JACOBY wrote:
I would like to get some opinions about interpreting Newton's laws of
motion.
I feel that all he meant was that if you want to move an object then you
must have a second object involved (to hit it or attract it).
Outside or external means "other than"
Newton, Isaac. 1687, "Philosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica"
("Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy and his System of the
World"), trans. by A. Motte and revised by F. Cajori (University of
California Press: Berkeley, 1934)
Newton, Isaac. "The Principia: Mathematical Principles of Natural
Philosophy Trans." I. Bernard Cohen and Anne Whitman, with the
assistance of Julia Budenz (University of California Press: Berkeley,
1999)
1) You are wholly unaware of what you speak.
2) After 319 years nothing new remains to be said on the subject.
And yet engineers are telling me that my machine won't work because all[/quote:e8eb7a3939]
the force developed is inside a container. I say it doesn't matter and
it will work. I find nothing in the translation by Cohen and Whitman
limiting it to outside surface contact only for a container.
I say Newton's laws require movement if the force is applied inside or
outside.
Nothing you have said suggest otherwise.
Who is right?
--
------------------- SOME THOUGHTS --------------------------
"The art of invention is to do what others think impossible"
How do you know if an invention is revolutionary?
Count the experts that say it is impossible.
THINK CAREFULLY -- IT'S DANGEROUS
EXCELLENCE IS ALWAYS HIDDEN IN THE DETAILS pj
pjacoby@charter.net
http://newlifter.tripod.com/ |
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| PD |
| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:37 pm |
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Guest
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PAUL JACOBY wrote:
[quote:befaf77b2e]Sam Wormley wrote:
PAUL JACOBY wrote:
I would like to get some opinions about interpreting Newton's laws
of
motion.
I feel that all he meant was that if you want to move an object
then
you must have a second object involved (to hit it or attract it).
Outside or external means "other than"
But the point I want to clarify is, Does it make any difference if
the
contact point is what we call an inside surface or an outside
surface?
I say no. pj
[/quote:befaf77b2e]
What about no surface at all, as in magnetic, electrostatic, or
gravitational forces? Hold a ball 2 miles above the Earth's surface and
let go. A force acts on it. Where's the contact point 1 second after
release?
[quote:befaf77b2e]
Implicit in the second law is a reference, and motion is always
with
respect to something.
Newton's Second Law
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/NewtonsSecondLaw.html
Newton had is right, F = dp/dt is right on!
"The motion of a particle is described by Euler's statement of
Newton's
second law, namely
F = ma
Here F is the applied force, m is the mass of the particle, and
a = dv/dt is the particle's acceleration, with v being the
particle's
velocity. This equation, together with the principle that bodies
act
symmetrically on one another--so that the force particle A feels
from
particle B is equal to the force B feels from A--is the basis for
understanding particle dynamics".
"Newton's law completely describes all the phenomena of classical
mechanics...."
--
------------------- SOME THOUGHTS --------------------------
"The art of invention is to do what others think impossible"
How do you know if an invention is revolutionary?
Count the experts that say it is impossible.
THINK CAREFULLY -- IT'S DANGEROUS
EXCELLENCE IS ALWAYS HIDDEN IN THE DETAILS pj
pjacoby@charter.net
http://newlifter.tripod.com/
[/quote:befaf77b2e]
I see you have a patent. Have you demonstrated that the prototype
works? |
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| Androcles |
| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:19 pm |
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"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:420106DD.44A641FC@hate.spam.net...
[quote:6cb99a1eb3]PAUL JACOBY wrote:
I would like to get some opinions about interpreting Newton's laws of
motion.
I feel that all he meant was that if you want to move an object then
you
must have a second object involved (to hit it or attract it).
Outside or external means "other than"
Newton, Isaac. 1687, "Philosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica"
("Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy and his System of the
World"), trans. by A. Motte and revised by F. Cajori (University of
California Press: Berkeley, 1934)
Newton, Isaac. "The Principia: Mathematical Principles of Natural
Philosophy Trans." I. Bernard Cohen and Anne Whitman, with the
assistance of Julia Budenz (University of California Press: Berkeley,
1999)
1) You are wholly unaware of what you speak.
2) After 319 years nothing new remains to be said on the subject.
--
Uncle Al
[/quote:6cb99a1eb3]
Pretty much out of it yourself, imbecile Alice.
http://members.tripod.com/~gravitee/
Androcles |
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| PAUL JACOBY |
| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:57 pm |
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Guest
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PD wrote:
[quote:e90dbe1036]PAUL JACOBY wrote:
Sam Wormley wrote:
PAUL JACOBY wrote:
I would like to get some opinions about interpreting Newton's laws
of
motion.
I feel that all he meant was that if you want to move an object
then
you must have a second object involved (to hit it or attract it).
Outside or external means "other than"
But the point I want to clarify is, Does it make any difference if
the
contact point is what we call an inside surface or an outside
surface?
I say no. pj
What about no surface at all, as in magnetic, electrostatic, or
gravitational forces? Hold a ball 2 miles above the Earth's surface and
let go. A force acts on it. Where's the contact point 1 second after
release?
Implicit in the second law is a reference, and motion is always
with
respect to something.
Newton's Second Law
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/NewtonsSecondLaw.html
Newton had is right, F = dp/dt is right on!
"The motion of a particle is described by Euler's statement of
Newton's
second law, namely
F = ma
Here F is the applied force, m is the mass of the particle, and
a = dv/dt is the particle's acceleration, with v being the
particle's
velocity. This equation, together with the principle that bodies
act
symmetrically on one another--so that the force particle A feels
from
particle B is equal to the force B feels from A--is the basis for
understanding particle dynamics".
"Newton's law completely describes all the phenomena of classical
mechanics...."
--
------------------- SOME THOUGHTS --------------------------
"The art of invention is to do what others think impossible"
How do you know if an invention is revolutionary?
Count the experts that say it is impossible.
THINK CAREFULLY -- IT'S DANGEROUS
EXCELLENCE IS ALWAYS HIDDEN IN THE DETAILS pj
pjacoby@charter.net
http://newlifter.tripod.com/
I see you have a patent. Have you demonstrated that the prototype
works?
At least you went to the page to see what I am talking about.[/quote:e90dbe1036]
No I haven't built it yet but I am working on it.
In the mean time I need an engineer to calculate size of parts and such
problems. and a machinist to cut them.
Aren't we lucky that president Truman did not say that to Einstein.
--
------------------- SOME THOUGHTS --------------------------
"The art of invention is to do what others think impossible"
How do you know if an invention is revolutionary?
Count the experts that say it is impossible.
THINK CAREFULLY -- IT'S DANGEROUS
EXCELLENCE IS ALWAYS HIDDEN IN THE DETAILS pj
pjacoby@charter.net
http://newlifter.tripod.com/ |
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| Mike |
| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:26 pm |
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PAUL JACOBY wrote:
psnip]
[quote:4c9b361a67]
And yet engineers are telling me that my machine won't work because
all
the force developed is inside a container. I say it doesn't matter
and
it will work. I find nothing in the translation by Cohen and Whitman
limiting it to outside surface contact only for a container.
I say Newton's laws require movement if the force is applied inside
or
outside.
Nothing you have said suggest otherwise.
Who is right?
[/quote:4c9b361a67]
Talk is cheap and you seem to be very generous. Pendulum test:
Hung your machine from a high ceiling and turn it on. Can it stay at a
45 deg angle with the vertical for an extended time without burning
fuel or producing lft using air foils or ionization wind?
You said "Newton's third law is also part of the problem. For ever
force there is an equal and opposite force."
That's not Newtons Third law exactly. The law is: For every action
there is an equal and opposite reaction...
Newton's law applies to a much broder spectrum of actions and reactions
than those produced by forces, i.e. contact or F =dp/dt. Did you say
you got no clue? Forget it. Try the pendulum test and feel the
embarishment that comes along with the denial of the laws of nature.
Mike |
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