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Science Forum Index » Astronomy Forum » The quintessential death of the universe
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Message |
| Regan S. |
 Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 9:35 pm |
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Guest
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Has anyone else heard of or seen in various educational science programs
the "thick clouds that surround our universe?" I briefly caught a glimpse
of a program on the science channel that claims that the universe is
entirely surrounded by a mysterious substance that looks similar to a
cloud, and surrounding it are deformed stars and other objects. To put it
another way: imagine that the entire universe is in a bubble and at the
very center of the universe is earth. Based on this information, it seems
the further out you extend, the more dying and deformed stars there are.
So if the universe is expanding, then we are all on a perpetual ride to
doom. What do you guys think of this? Have any of you heard of this or do
you think it's hogwash?
-Regan. |
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| Bill Sheppard |
| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 9:35 pm |
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'Regan' wrote,
Quote: ..imagine that the entire universe is in a
bubble and at the very center of the
universe is earth.....What do you guys
think of this? Have any of you heard of
this or do you think it's hogwash?
Sounds like a modern iteration of geocentrism. Try a web search under
'Horizon problem'. It'll give some insights on how our 'bubble of
visibility' has decoupled from the Big Bang and from myriad other
'bubbles of visibility'.
In the interim since the BB, the finite speed of light is
what imposes the horizon and puts 'us' at the center of 'our' bubble.
oc |
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| C.Swartz |
| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 10:20 pm |
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Regan S. (Masa2@aol.com) wrote...
Quote: Has anyone else heard of or seen in various educational science programs
the "thick clouds that surround our universe?" I briefly caught a glimpse
of a program on the science channel that claims that the universe is
entirely surrounded by a mysterious substance that looks similar to a
cloud, and surrounding it are deformed stars and other objects. To put it
another way: imagine that the entire universe is in a bubble and at the
very center of the universe is earth. Based on this information, it seems
the further out you extend, the more dying and deformed stars there are.
So if the universe is expanding, then we are all on a perpetual ride to
doom. What do you guys think of this? Have any of you heard of this or do
you think it's hogwash?
-Regan.
The "stuff" of the universe is always recycling itself. New stars are
always being born. It's not like all the stars will eventually die and
that's the end.
Curious though. Which science channel was this?
-Chris |
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| Ralph Hertle |
| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:16 am |
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Regan: Re: The quintessential death of the universe [ vs. existence
is existing ]
That is total religious mysticism. It is a mystic con-man's lie.
If you believe that you should get an appointment with your local
psychotherapist, and get some help. Seriously, for that is totally
irrational.
Note the heavy and oppressive literary tone of that snip. Note also that
there is no evidence to support anything of the sort.
The universe is a continuing plurality of existents that each have
unique properties, potentials of change, and relationships with other
existents. The stuff of the universe continues to function or exist
according to those properties.
The edge of the universe is a creationist or religious creationist view
that is rationalized by the (at the time) quite reasonable hypothesis of
the Hubble expansion theory that is based on the spectral display
evidence of the Apparent Red Shift of the light patterns of specific
elements.
The Apparent Red Shift is true and quite verifiable. The claimed
expansion of the universe based on that isn't true, however, because the
energy level, and frequency, of light photons is diminished as the
photons travel through space. That is the cause of the "Red Shift" of
spectral light displays. The specific means by which the photon
simultaneously looses both energy, and frequency, without losing
velocity is unknown, however, we can presume that there are physical
existents in space that collide with photons. Lord Rayleigh's inelastic
photon-hydrogen collisions resulted in lowered energy levels of photons,
and that may be the means. An alternate, but similar theory, is that
gravitons that collide with photons, and that may be the cause of the
Apparent Red Shift of spectral element displays.
If that is found and proved to be true, the BB theory will have to
disappear into history as a "well done, and not quite sufficient"
theory. There would also be no dimensional or temporal boundaries the
the universe that can be supported by evidence: no edge, beginning or
end to the universe. The existence and continuity of existence theory,
previously known in its context as the "Steady State Theory" will have
been resupported. The highly red shifted light that we receive in a
telescope, or spectral apparatus, will merely indicate the limits that
we have of seeing older and older photons from increasingly distant
objects. The age of the universe cannot be determined from red shift
measurements - only the relative ages of the photons. One could, based
on the velocity of light, or C that we now have, estimate the distances
to the emitting physical elements.
Check out Lord Rayleigh's inelastic photon-hydrogen collision theory and
his demonstration of the lowered energy levels of photons in the laboratory.
The frequency and energy levels of photons are both properties of
photons in the context of a constant velocity of light.
His work may be being disappeared, and I can no longer find a report of
this experiment of his on the internet. If anyone can research that we
would all benefit. I don't have access to the appropriate library, that
is probably in Great Britain, and if I did I would copy that or the
series of experiments. That experiment has been grossly overlooked by
modern creationist physicists.
When and if the graviton is discovered to be a form of photon, and
photons may be found to collide with photons causing reductions of
photon energy levels, the BB - temporal boundary theory will have been
found to be a tired old religious con.
There are no dimensional or temporal limits to the universe, and there
is no evidence to support that claim. The universe continues to exist as
it always has. All the evidence of man's sense-perception, reason, all
human actions of history, and all the evidence produced by all the valid
scientific experiments ever produced in themselves provides the evidence
for the existence and the continuation of existence in particular detail.
The primary property of the existence of existence is the continuity of
existence.
Ralph Hertle
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Regan S. wrote:
Quote: Has anyone else heard of or seen in various educational science programs
the "thick clouds that surround our universe?" I briefly caught a glimpse
of a program on the science channel that claims that the universe is
entirely surrounded by a mysterious substance that looks similar to a
cloud, and surrounding it are deformed stars and other objects. To put it
another way: imagine that the entire universe is in a bubble and at the
very center of the universe is earth. Based on this information, it seems
the further out you extend, the more dying and deformed stars there are.
So if the universe is expanding, then we are all on a perpetual ride to
doom. What do you guys think of this? Have any of you heard of this or do
you think it's hogwash?
-Regan. |
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| G=EMC^2 Glazier |
| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 7:26 am |
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Hi Regan Read how Witten added another dimension to the string theory. M
Theory. It tells about this. Quintessence is no other than a quality of
which we cannot by our reason find a cause.(Montaigne) Bert |
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| Greg Neill |
| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:10 am |
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Guest
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"Regan S." <Masa2@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9451D162E84BFMAsa11hotmailcom@63.240.76.16...
Quote: Has anyone else heard of or seen in various educational science programs
the "thick clouds that surround our universe?" I briefly caught a glimpse
of a program on the science channel that claims that the universe is
entirely surrounded by a mysterious substance that looks similar to a
cloud, and surrounding it are deformed stars and other objects. To put it
another way: imagine that the entire universe is in a bubble and at the
very center of the universe is earth. Based on this information, it seems
the further out you extend, the more dying and deformed stars there are.
So if the universe is expanding, then we are all on a perpetual ride to
doom. What do you guys think of this? Have any of you heard of this or
do
you think it's hogwash?
Sounds like hogwash, although perhaps it's just a poor interpretation
or explanation of some other phenomenon. Which science channel did
you see this on? Can you remember the program name? |
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| Regan S. |
| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 3:19 pm |
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Guest
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"Greg Neill" <gneillREM@OVE.netcom.ca> wrote in
news:z9kDb.73868$M95.1049081@wagner.videotron.net:
Quote: "Regan S." <Masa2@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9451D162E84BFMAsa11hotmailcom@63.240.76.16...
Has anyone else heard of or seen in various educational science
programs the "thick clouds that surround our universe?" I briefly
caught a glimpse of a program on the science channel that claims that
the universe is entirely surrounded by a mysterious substance that
looks similar to a cloud, and surrounding it are deformed stars and
other objects. To put it another way: imagine that the entire
universe is in a bubble and at the very center of the universe is
earth. Based on this information, it seems the further out you
extend, the more dying and deformed stars there are. So if the
universe is expanding, then we are all on a perpetual ride to doom.
What do you guys think of this? Have any of you heard of this or
do
you think it's hogwash?
Sounds like hogwash, although perhaps it's just a poor interpretation
or explanation of some other phenomenon. Which science channel did
you see this on? Can you remember the program name?
The channel I heard this on was The Science Channel, part of the
Discovery Network, and unfortunately I did not catch the name of the
program (but I'm not making it up! I swear!) I distinctly remember
seeing images of a massive, colorless "cloud" and the words "true end of
the universe" mentioned. Since I only watched the program mid-way
through, my guess is that it may have been a shady presupposition based
on miniscule information by the makers of the program. I was just
curious as to whether any of you have even heard of this before or not,
and whether it sounds ingenuous.
-Regan. |
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| Greg Neill |
| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 6:28 pm |
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Guest
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"Regan S." <Masa2@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9453919E4D1B7MAsa11hotmailcom@63.240.76.16...
Quote: The channel I heard this on was The Science Channel, part of the
Discovery Network, and unfortunately I did not catch the name of the
program (but I'm not making it up! I swear!) I distinctly remember
seeing images of a massive, colorless "cloud" and the words "true end of
the universe" mentioned. Since I only watched the program mid-way
through, my guess is that it may have been a shady presupposition based
on miniscule information by the makers of the program. I was just
curious as to whether any of you have even heard of this before or not,
and whether it sounds ingenuous.
-Regan.
Perhaps the "end" of the universe they had in mind was the
far future heat-death of same? |
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| Ralph Hertle |
| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 12:28 am |
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Guest
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Regan: Re: The quintessential death of the universe [ vs. existence
is existing ]
That is total religious mysticism. It is a mystic con-man's lie.
If you believe that you should get an appointment with your local
psychotherapist, and get some help. Seriously, for that is totally
irrational.
Note the heavy and oppressive literary tone of that snip. Note also that
there is no evidence to support anything of the sort.
The universe is a continuing plurality of existents that each have
unique properties, potentials of change, and relationships with other
existents. The stuff of the universe continues to function or exist
according to those properties.
The edge of the universe is a creationist or religious creationist view
that is rationalized by the (at the time) quite reasonable hypothesis of
the Hubble expansion theory that is based on the spectral display
evidence of the Apparent Red Shift of the light patterns of specific
elements.
The Apparent Red Shift is true and quite verifiable. The claimed
expansion of the universe based on that isn't true, however, because the
energy level, and frequency, of light photons is diminished as the
photons travel through space. That is the cause of the "Red Shift" of
spectral light displays. The specific means by which the photon
simultaneously looses both energy, and frequency, without losing
velocity is unknown, however, we can presume that there are physical
existents in space that collide with photons. Lord Rayleigh's inelastic
photon-hydrogen collisions resulted in lowered energy levels of photons,
and that may be the means. An alternate, but similar theory, is that
gravitons that collide with photons, and that may be the cause of the
Apparent Red Shift of spectral element displays.
If that is found and proved to be true, the BB theory will have to
disappear into history as a "well done, and not quite sufficient"
theory. There would also be no dimensional or temporal boundaries the
the universe that can be supported by evidence: no edge, beginning or
end to the universe. The existence and continuity of existence theory,
previously known in its context as the "Steady State Theory" will have
been resupported. The highly red shifted light that we receive in a
telescope, or spectral apparatus, will merely indicate the limits that
we have of seeing older and older photons from increasingly distant
objects. The age of the universe cannot be determined from red shift
measurements - only the relative ages of the photons. One could, based
on the velocity of light, or C that we now have, estimate the distances
to the emitting physical elements.
Check out Lord Rayleigh's inelastic photon-hydrogen collision theory and
his demonstration of the lowered energy levels of photons in the laboratory.
The frequency and energy levels of photons are both properties of
photons in the context of a constant velocity of light.
His work may be being disappeared, and I can no longer find a report of
this experiment of his on the internet. If anyone can research that we
would all benefit. I don't have access to the appropriate library, that
is probably in Great Britain, and if I did I would copy that or the
series of experiments. That experiment has been grossly overlooked by
modern creationist physicists.
When and if the graviton is discovered to be a form of photon, and
photons may be found to collide with photons causing reductions of
photon energy levels, the BB - temporal boundary theory will have been
found to be a tired old religious con.
There are no dimensional or temporal limits to the universe, and there
is no evidence to support that claim. The universe continues to exist as
it always has. All the evidence of man's sense-perception, reason, all
human actions of history, and all the evidence produced by all the valid
scientific experiments ever produced in themselves provides the evidence
for the existence and the continuation of existence in particular detail.
The primary property of the existence of existence is the continuity of
existence.
Ralph Hertle
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Regan S. wrote:
Quote: Has anyone else heard of or seen in various educational science programs
the "thick clouds that surround our universe?" I briefly caught a glimpse
of a program on the science channel that claims that the universe is
entirely surrounded by a mysterious substance that looks similar to a
cloud, and surrounding it are deformed stars and other objects. To put it
another way: imagine that the entire universe is in a bubble and at the
very center of the universe is earth. Based on this information, it seems
the further out you extend, the more dying and deformed stars there are.
So if the universe is expanding, then we are all on a perpetual ride to
doom. What do you guys think of this? Have any of you heard of this or do
you think it's hogwash?
-Regan. |
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