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Science Forum Index » Military Forum » Perplexing Pentagon Eyewitness Testimony
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| Walter Sickert |
 Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:18 pm |
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http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/F77penta06.html
The tail is claimed to have clipped a sign. Doesn't that mean the 757
passed UNDER a sign?
How can a plane clip a jeep antenna, and pass 25-100 feet over other
cars?
------------
Unnamed Flight Attendant Saw A Tail:
AA Flight Attendant
An American Airlines flight Attendant saw the tail section when she went
to the site to support the people who were working on the clean-up of the
wreckage. If the tail section was there and hauled away soon after the
crash, then it is possible that the photos that we see commonly, of the
front of the Pentagon were taken late in the day, or the next day, after
removal of the tail section. Documents now being held by the government
as secret, need to be released, as they have been in New York. [See
statement included in Eyewitness reports.]
But no tail appears in photos taken in the first 10 minutes after the
crash.
-------------
-------------
Tamillow, Michael
This person claims "tons of debris", none of which are visible in
photographs:
"Pulling away from the Pentagon there was tons of stuff on the
ground, big pieces of metal, concrete, everything. We got up to a certain
point and there was this huge piece of something -- I mean it was big, it
looked like a piece of an engine or something -- in the road. And there
was somebody, definitely a security guard or maybe a military person,
with his car in front of it making sure no one touched it." . . .
"I looked back and I saw the fire, it was just huge and just
incredible.
"Amazing stories: The air, the island and the fortress, by Jennifer
Simmons, Counseling Today Online, 10/01
-------------
The Washington Post refers to debris that never appears in a single long
shot of the Pentagon:
Washington Post
By afternoon, the investigation was underway. At one point, a column of
50 FBI officers walked shoulder-to-shoulder across the south grounds of
the Pentagon, picking up debris and stuffing it into brown bags. The lawn
was scattered with chunks of the airplane, some up to four feet across.
"Loud Boom, Then Flames In Hallways - Pentagon Employees Flee Fire, Help
Rescue Injured Co-Workers," by Mary Beth Sheridan, Washington Post,
9/12/01
-------------
---------------
Tim Timmerman also refers to debris that is not visible in any of the
original shots of the Pentagon:
Timmerman, Tim
A pilot who saw the impact, Tim Timmerman, said it had been an American
Airways 757. "It added power on its way in," he said. "The nose hit, and
the wings came forward and it went up in a fireball."
Smoke and flames poured out of a large hole punched into the side of the
Pentagon. . . . A piece of twisted aircraft fuselage lay nearby.
"`Everyone was screaming, crying, running. It's like a war zone'," by
Julian Borger, Duncan Campbell, Charlie Porter and Stuart Millar, The
Guardian, 9/12/01
---------------
Again, tons of stuff on the ground, and a piece of engine in the road.
None of which appear in photographs.
Terronez, Tony
"Pulling away from the Pentagon there was tons of stuff on the ground,
big pieces of metal, concrete, everything. We got up to a certain point
and there was this huge piece of something -- I mean it was big, it
looked like a piece of an engine or something -- in the road. And there
was somebody, definitely a security guard or maybe a military person,
with his car in front of it making sure no one touched it."
______________
Terronez, Tony
A "huge piece of wheel on fire" inside the Pentagon? How huge were these
wheels?
The whole time I was taking pictures it was so detailed. I could this
huge piece of a wheel on fire through the black smoke, but I couldn't see
into the Pentagon itself. . . .
"Amazing stories: The air, the island and the fortress, by Jennifer
Simmons, Counseling Today Online, 10/01
--------------
Seats? A tail? None of which appear in a single photo.
Biggert, Judy
Members of Congress have been shuttled to the site to inspect the damage.
Rep. Judy Biggert (R-Ill.) made the trip on Thursday. She saw remnants of
the airplane.
"There was a seat from a plane, there was part of the tail and
then there was a part of green metal, I could not tell what it was, a
part of the outside of the plane," she said. "It smelled like it was
still burning."
"Wind carries stench of death," by Lynn Sweet, Chicago Sun-Times, 9/16/01
-----------
The plane passes 25 feet over some cars, and clips the antenna of
another?
Narayanan, Vin
"The plane exploded after it hit, the tail came off and it began burning
immediately. Within five minutes, police and emergency vehicles began
arriving," said Vin Narayanan, a reporter at USA TODAY.com, who was
driving near the Pentagon when the plane hit.
"`I fear for my daughter'," From staff and wire reports, USATODAY.com,
9/11/01
.. . . The jet roared over my head, clearing my car by about 25 feet. The
tail of the plane clipped the overhanging exit sign above me as it headed
straight at the Pentagon.
"`Tomorrow always belongs to us'," by Vin Narayanan, USATODAY.com,
9/17/01
------------
This eyewitness contradicts the other story about the engine hitting a
low concrete wall:
Sepulveda, Noel
"The right engine hit high, the left engine hit low," Sepulveda
said. "For a brief moment, you could see the body of the plane sticking
out from the side of the building. Then a ball of fire came from behind
it."
An explosion followed, sending Sepulveda flying against a light
pole.
"Pentagon hero receives Purple Heart, Airman's Medal," by Master Sgt.
Dorothy Goepel, Air Force Print News, 4/15/02
------------
The testimony at times sounds forced and scripted, referring to physical
evidence that doesn't exist. Much of the other testimony contradicts
other witnesses.
--
"You're right. I was Bo Derek that night in Palermo."
REPTILIAN WATCH WANTS TO EAT YOUR CHILDREN
http://www.bedoper.com/reptilian
And some other stuff
http://www.bedoper.com/ |
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 3:14 pm |
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On 1 Jul 2004 20:18:28 GMT, Walter Sickert <kill@killkill.org> wrote:
Quote: http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/F77penta06.html
The tail is claimed to have clipped a sign. Doesn't that mean the 757
passed UNDER a sign?
No, Jason, it doesn't.
"The tail of the plane clipped the overhanging exit sign above me as
it headed straight at the Pentagon. "
The tail of the plane, meaning the end of the aircraft.
Quote: How can a plane clip a jeep antenna, and pass 25-100 feet over other
cars?
"On either side of him, three streetlights had been sheared in half by
the airliner's wings at 12 to 15 feet above the ground. An engine had
clipped the antenna off a Jeep Grand Cherokee stalled in traffic not
far away. "
Go look at a picture of a 757-200, Jason. The engines are under the
wings...
Quote: ------------
Unnamed Flight Attendant Saw A Tail:
AA Flight Attendant
An American Airlines flight Attendant saw the tail section when she went
to the site to support the people who were working on the clean-up of the
wreckage. If the tail section was there and hauled away soon after the
crash, then it is possible that the photos that we see commonly, of the
front of the Pentagon were taken late in the day, or the next day, after
removal of the tail section. Documents now being held by the government
as secret, need to be released, as they have been in New York. [See
statement included in Eyewitness reports.]
But no tail appears in photos taken in the first 10 minutes after the
crash.
Hey, Jason, maybe you should actually go read what she really said:
"She recognized part of a tail section bearing the A/A logo."
Part of a tail section, not "the" tail section.
Quote: -------------
Tamillow, Michael
This person claims "tons of debris", none of which are visible in
photographs:
"Pulling away from the Pentagon there was tons of stuff on the
ground, big pieces of metal, concrete, everything. We got up to a certain
point and there was this huge piece of something -- I mean it was big, it
looked like a piece of an engine or something -- in the road. And there
was somebody, definitely a security guard or maybe a military person,
with his car in front of it making sure no one touched it." . . .
"I looked back and I saw the fire, it was just huge and just
incredible.
"Amazing stories: The air, the island and the fortress, by Jennifer
Simmons, Counseling Today Online, 10/01
Strange how that's not really what Michael Tamillow said, now is it?
FBI evidence teams combing the area of impact along the building's
perimeter found parts of the fuselage from the Boeing 757, said
Michael Tamillow, a battalion chief and search and rescue expert for
the Fairfax County, Virginia, Fire Department. No large pieces
apparently survived.
Your quote was taken from this:
Tony Terronez was getting ready for work at The National Theater in
downtown Washing-ton, D.C. when he saw the news showing Tower 2 of the
World Trade Center on fire. As the events of the morning unfolded, he
either watched or listened on the radio to the news of the attack.
Because he was not going to his usual job where he is the assistant
treasurer for the Eisenhower and Terrace Theaters at The John F.
Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts, he would have to drive past
the Pentagon and he was running late.
"The whole time I was thinking I was going to be late for work because
I have to drive past the Pentagon on Washington Boulevard, and I knew
they would try to do something like shut down the roads or maybe
restrict a lane for security reasons," Terronez said. "But I was just
like, `Let's go there and see what happens, and if I get stuck in
traffic, no big deal.'
"I was listening to a lot of the coverage on the radio, and as soon as
I got off on Washington Boulevard toward the Pentagon, sure enough
there was traffic. I just kept inching forward and as time went by, I
heard the reports on the radio saying that it was a plane. It was a
terrorist attack. And I heard President (George W. Bush) go on the air
and do his speech about the attacks on the World Trade Center
buildings and, of course, we're inching closer to the Pentagon. And at
that point I kept trying to call my boss at the National Theater to
let him know I was stuck in traffic by the Pentagon. It was a
beautiful day, too. Not too hot, just cool and sunny and I had my
windows down.
"Around 9:40 a.m. I reached the heliport area (beside the Pentagon)
and was just listening to more of the testimonials on the radio. And
this whole time it didn't even connect that right next to me was a
possible target. You think to yourself, `That's New York all the way
up there and, we're here.' You would think that the terrorists were
done.
"So I got about 100 yards or so past the heliport and then all of the
sudden I heard this loud screeching sound that just came out of
nowhere and it intensified. This huge WHOOSH! And something made me
look in my rearview mirror and by the time I looked up I saw the side
of the Pentagon explode.
"I was stunned. It was just so surreal, like something out of a movie,
like `Die Hard.' The side of a building just exploded! As the fireball
got higher and higher, you saw this debris go up in the air. I'm
watching this in my rearview mirror, and then I thought, `Oh my God,
there's debris coming toward me!' So my reaction was, I ducked into my
passenger seat and I heard the pitter-patter of pebbles and concrete
bouncing off my car. And the next thing you know, I heard this big
crash come from somewhere. It sounded like glass being shattered and I
thought maybe, at first, it was one of my windows so I popped up to
look but everything was fine. But when I looked to the car next to me
I realized that something went through (the driver's) rear windshield
and shattered it. There was a hole where you could see that something
went through it.
"I put the car in park -- it's amazing how instinct takes over because
I will never know how it is I kept my foot on the brake when I ducked
at the same time. I should have rammed right into the guy in front of
me. I got out of the car and the guy in front of me, he and I just
looked at each other. It seemed like everybody who was on the road got
out of their cars and just looked in disbelief as the fireball just
kept getting bigger and bigger. My jaw was dropped, his jaw was
dropped, and then, at that point, something about trying to make sure
people were OK overtook me and I started going around to the people in
the other cars to see if they were all right.
"I and the guy in front of me went to the car next to me and asked the
driver if he was all right and if he was OK to drive. He was in shock,
you could tell. He just kept looking straight ahead. He didn't even
look back, he was so fixated on looking north. He didn't want to look
south at the Pentagon. And it took a couple of times for me and the
other guy to say, `Can you drive? Hello? Are you OK? Are you OK?' And
he said, `Yeah, I think I can drive.' We asked him again, `Can you
drive?' and that time he was more sure and said, `Yes, yes, I can
drive.' Then both I and the guy in front of me looked at his rear
windshield and saw what was about a four-inch hole in it and the rest
of the window was shattered as if someone took a baseball bat to it.
"At that point I realized -- you see at that point I didn't know it
was a plane, I thought it was a missile strike -- how dangerous things
were. And I just started yelling, `We gotta get out of here,' to the
guy in front of me -- and he agreed -- and we started yelling at
people, `Get back in your cars! We gotta get the f--- out of here!'
And I just kept repeating, `Get in your cars! Let's go, let's go! Get
the f--- out of here. Go! Go! Go!' And people must have listened
because down the road you heard more people telling everyone to get in
their cars and go. Cars were going over the median on Route 27 because
there wasn't any traffic coming southbound toward the Pentagon. People
were hopping over it any way they could, on the grass, anything. It
was a little scary at that point.
"Pulling away from the Pentagon there was tons of stuff on the ground,
big pieces of metal, concrete, everything. We got up to a certain
point and there was this huge piece of something -- I mean it was big,
it looked like a piece of an engine or something -- in the road. And
there was somebody, definitely a security guard or maybe a military
person, with his car in front of it making sure no one touched it."
Terronez was trying to call 911 and also his fellow employees at The
Kennedy Center to tell them to evacuate the building, but no one was
answering. When he finally got in touch with his supervisor, he was
panicking.
"She probably thought I was a raving lunatic. I was saying `Oh my God!
Oh my God! You won't believe what happened. The Pentagon's been blown
up! It's been attacked.' And the next thing you know the line was cut
off. I can't imagine how scary that was for her, to just have the line
go dead after everything I'd been saying.
"I looked back and I saw the fire, it was just huge and just
incredible. I still can't believe it. At that point in time, I
remembered I had a camera in my trunk. I got off an off-ramp beside
the Pentagon and parked my car in the grass and started taking
pictures. The whole time I was taking pictures it was so detailed. I
could this huge piece of a wheel on fire through the black smoke, but
I couldn't see into the Pentagon itself. As I was taking pictures the
press corps came and started setting up shop. Some military person
told us we had to just get out of there. Of course, some people
listened, some people didn't. I listened.
"I went up the road toward Columbia Pike going westbound, and then I
stopped one more time. I took one last picture and it was the first
chance I had to think about anything. Up until then I was just
reacting. This was probably about 10 minutes after the strike and all
of the sudden I just realized that I was lucky. I was so lucky.
"At that point I just started to cry. I thought `I can't believe what
I've just been through.' Then I started thinking about all the people
who were inside the Pentagon, and I had this terrible feeling because
I survived. Oh God . . . all those people. I felt guilty because I
survived, but what about those poor people?
"That was the first time I started thinking that I should have done
more. I don't know what, but I should've stopped taking pictures. I
should have run across the street and tried to help people, but you
know, in hindsight I don't know what I could have done. So instead, I
just drove off Columbia Pike and drove home. And that was about it.
That was the incident in 10 minutes -- something that changed my life
forever."
Seems Mr. Terronez has no trouble believing what happened.
Quote: -----------
The Washington Post refers to debris that never appears in a single long
shot of the Pentagon:
Washington Post
By afternoon, the investigation was underway. At one point, a column of
50 FBI officers walked shoulder-to-shoulder across the south grounds of
the Pentagon, picking up debris and stuffing it into brown bags. The lawn
was scattered with chunks of the airplane, some up to four feet across.
"Loud Boom, Then Flames In Hallways - Pentagon Employees Flee Fire, Help
Rescue Injured Co-Workers," by Mary Beth Sheridan, Washington Post,
9/12/01
So the Washington Post is lying, Jason?
Quote: -------------
Tim Timmerman also refers to debris that is not visible in any of the
original shots of the Pentagon:
Timmerman, Tim
A pilot who saw the impact, Tim Timmerman, said it had been an American
Airways 757. "It added power on its way in," he said. "The nose hit, and
the wings came forward and it went up in a fireball."
Smoke and flames poured out of a large hole punched into the side of the
Pentagon. . . . A piece of twisted aircraft fuselage lay nearby.
"`Everyone was screaming, crying, running. It's like a war zone'," by
Julian Borger, Duncan Campbell, Charlie Porter and Stuart Millar, The
Guardian, 9/12/01
Size matters, Jason.
Quote: ---------------
Again, tons of stuff on the ground, and a piece of engine in the road.
None of which appear in photographs.
Terronez, Tony
"Pulling away from the Pentagon there was tons of stuff on the ground,
big pieces of metal, concrete, everything. We got up to a certain point
and there was this huge piece of something -- I mean it was big, it
looked like a piece of an engine or something -- in the road. And there
was somebody, definitely a security guard or maybe a military person,
with his car in front of it making sure no one touched it."
Never exagerrated anything in your life, Jason? Your ex-girlfriend
can probably tell us.
______________
Quote: Terronez, Tony
A "huge piece of wheel on fire" inside the Pentagon? How huge were these
wheels?
The whole time I was taking pictures it was so detailed. I could this
huge piece of a wheel on fire through the black smoke, but I couldn't see
into the Pentagon itself. . . .
"Amazing stories: The air, the island and the fortress, by Jennifer
Simmons, Counseling Today Online, 10/01
Probably one of the cable wheels.
Quote: --------------
Seats? A tail? None of which appear in a single photo.
Biggert, Judy
Members of Congress have been shuttled to the site to inspect the damage.
Rep. Judy Biggert (R-Ill.) made the trip on Thursday. She saw remnants of
the airplane.
"There was a seat from a plane, there was part of the tail and
then there was a part of green metal, I could not tell what it was, a
part of the outside of the plane," she said. "It smelled like it was
still burning."
"Wind carries stench of death," by Lynn Sweet, Chicago Sun-Times, 9/16/01
There's testimony of another one of your seats, Jason. And this was
several days after the event. It doesn't even say where she saw the
wreckage. It could have been in the North parking lot for all we
know.
Quote: -----------
The plane passes 25 feet over some cars, and clips the antenna of
another?
Narayanan, Vin
"The plane exploded after it hit, the tail came off and it began burning
immediately. Within five minutes, police and emergency vehicles began
arriving," said Vin Narayanan, a reporter at USA TODAY.com, who was
driving near the Pentagon when the plane hit.
"`I fear for my daughter'," From staff and wire reports, USATODAY.com,
9/11/01
. . . The jet roared over my head, clearing my car by about 25 feet. The
tail of the plane clipped the overhanging exit sign above me as it headed
straight at the Pentagon.
"`Tomorrow always belongs to us'," by Vin Narayanan, USATODAY.com,
9/17/01
The plane was continuing to descend, Jason.
Quote: ------------
This eyewitness contradicts the other story about the engine hitting a
low concrete wall:
Sepulveda, Noel
"The right engine hit high, the left engine hit low," Sepulveda
said. "For a brief moment, you could see the body of the plane sticking
out from the side of the building. Then a ball of fire came from behind
it."
An explosion followed, sending Sepulveda flying against a light
pole.
"Pentagon hero receives Purple Heart, Airman's Medal," by Master Sgt.
Dorothy Goepel, Air Force Print News, 4/15/02
Not really, Jason. He's describing a plane that struck the Pentagon
with the wings not level, just exactly as the ASCE report describes
it.
Quote: ------------
The testimony at times sounds forced and scripted, referring to physical
evidence that doesn't exist. Much of the other testimony contradicts
other witnesses.
Only to a conspiracy theorist who expects everything to perfectly
match. Oh, yeah, if it all perfectly matches then that also makes it
a conspiracy. It's a win-win situation for the conspriacy folks. |
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| running with scissors |
| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:51 pm |
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Walter Sickert <kill@killkill.org> wrote in message news:<Xns95199B2097182123456@207.14.113.17>...
Quote: http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/F77penta06.html
The tail is claimed to have clipped a sign. Doesn't that mean the 757
passed UNDER a sign?
bwhahahhahahahahahhahahhahah
stupid cunt. |
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| running with scissors |
| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:52 pm |
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Walter Sickert <kill@killkill.org> wrote in message news:<Xns95199B2097182123456@207.14.113.17>...
Quote: http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/F77penta06.html
The tail is claimed to have clipped a sign. Doesn't that mean the 757
passed UNDER a sign?
mmm and the sign read "keep off the grass" eh you fucking nimrod. |
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