| |
 |
|
|
Science Forum Index » Chemistry Forum » The Montreal Protocol is "crime against humanity" -...
Page 1 of 1
|
| Author |
Message |
| ... |
Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 10:48 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Has anyone done any research on polar bears blinded by ozone
depletion?
http://biglizards.net/blog/archives/2006/08/the_frozone_lay.html
August 21, 2006
The Glozone Layer
Enviro-Mental Cases , Globaloney Sandwich , Science - Bogus
Hatched by Dafydd
Beginning 28 years ago (starting with Sweden in 1978), the hysterical
fear-mongering du jour were a pair of rapidly expanding "holes" in the
ozone layer high above the Earth, one above each pole in the
stratosphere (10 km to 50 km altitude, or 33,000 feet to 164,000
feet). The ozone holes -- actually, areas of somewhat decreased ozone
concentrations, not the absence of ozone -- would let in too much
ultraviolate radiation (UVR), which would lead to skin cancer, genetic
damage, and the destruction of life on this planet.
The primary culprit for ozone depletion (this is actually correct) was
found to be manmade refrigerants, propellants, cleaners, and fire
extinguishers, nearly all based upon chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) and
bromofluorocarbons (BFCs). In an orgy of enviro-mental disorder,
virtually every civilized and semi-civilized nation on the planet
rushed to eliminate CFCs, substituting hydrochlorofluorocarbons
(HCFCs) and hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs) for the dreaded CFCs.
But now it turns out, with an irony thick enough to spread on a
muffin, that the wonderful chemicals we've shifted to using, in order
to allow the "ozone holes" to "heal," are themselves very powerful
greenhouse gases... and they're significantly contributing to
supposedly human-induced global warming:
The chemicals that replaced CFCs are better for the ozone layer, but
do little to help global warming. These chemicals, too, act as a
reflective layer in the atmosphere that traps heat like a greenhouse.
That effect is at odds with the intent of a second treaty, drawn up in
Kyoto, Japan, in 1997 by the same countries behind the Montreal pact.
In fact, the volume of greenhouse gases created as a result of the
Montreal agreement's phaseout of CFCs is two times to three times the
amount of global-warming carbon dioxide the Kyoto agreement is
supposed to eliminate.
The international association of the perpetually aggrieved now laments
the fact that nobody appears to own the earth's atmosphere... hence,
there is nobody to be sued:
"But now the question is, who's going to ensure that the replacements
are not going to cause global warming?" said Alexander von Bismarck,
campaigns director for the Environmental Investigation Agency, a
nonprofit watchdog group in London and Washington. "It's shocking that
so far nobody's taking responsibility."
"A massive opportunity to help stave off climate change is currently
being cast aside," he said.
Environmentalists now demand that those countries that spent
themselves into recessions replacing CFCs with HCFCs and HFCs do it
all over again, this time substituting for the substitutes:
The U.N. report says the atmosphere could be spared the equivalent of
1 billion tons of carbon dioxide emissions if countries used ammonia,
hydrocarbons, carbon dioxide or other ozone-friendly chemicals, rather
than HCFCs and HFCs, in foams and refrigerants. Such alternatives are
more common in Europe.
And of course, most of the international enviromentalist organizations
are -- European! What a lucky break for countries of that continent.
Of course, the only other problem (besides prohibitive cost) is that
the alternatives don't work very well, if at all. But that's a small
price to pay for the priviliege of being on the cutting edge of
chemical conscientiousness.
What has always struck me as hilarious is that the folks who are most
exercised about global warming nevertheless recoil from the single
most effective method of redusing carbon and carbonoid emissions: a
massive program to replace all oil- and coal-based powerplants with
clean, modern, and safe nuclear fission reactors, using new
technologies. As Big Lizards discussed back in December:
But there are many methods of producing energy that do not require
burning anything... the most effective of which, in the short-to-
medium term (0 to 50 years), are hydroelectric generators and nuclear
power plants. Since the former are limited by the number of rivers
you're willing to dam (which causes rather significant environmental
change, to say the least!), we should probably concentrate on the
latter. Recent radically improved technologies for nuclear fission,
including Pebble Bed Modular Reactors (gas-cooled) and Integral Fast
Reactors (liquid-metal cooled), already exist in prototype but lack
either funding or a favorable political climate for wide-scale
development.
That last void is courtesy the environmentalist movement, which
demands we solve a problem while nixing all possible solutions.
But hey, what do I know? I gloriously wasted my youth studying real
mathematics and logic.
Hatched by Dafydd on this day, August 21, 2006, at the time of 4:49 AM |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Benj... |
Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 12:14 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
d.... at (no spam) hotmail.com wrote:
Quote: Enviro-Mental Cases , Globaloney Sandwich , Science - Bogus
Hatched by Dafydd
But now it turns out, with an irony thick enough to spread on a
muffin, that the wonderful chemicals we've shifted to using, in order
to allow the "ozone holes" to "heal," are themselves very powerful
greenhouse gases... and they're significantly contributing to
supposedly human-induced global warming:
HCFCs causing global warming? Yeah I can see that! I've made a lot of
noise here about CO2 as a "greenhouse gas" being total political bull,
but this one makes sense both politically and scientifically.
My favorite irony is that the chemicals in the space shuttle boosters
reportedly do more ozone layer damage than a bazzillion cans of
deodorant. But then to enviro-mentalists quantity is not a word that
ever concerns them. Showing that you are "doing something" however
small (or even if having the opposite effect from that sought) is the
important thing. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Poetic Justice... |
Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 5:03 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
d.086 at (no spam) hotmail.com wrote:
The added radiation bleaches their fur white and allows them to
survive.... if you add ozone it will take away the radiation that keeps
them white and polar bears will all die. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| V-for-Vendicar... |
Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 5:05 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
<d.086 at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote
Quote: Beginning 28 years ago (starting with Sweden in 1978), the hysterical
fear-mongering du jour were a pair of rapidly expanding "holes" in the
ozone layer high above the Earth, one above each pole in the
stratosphere (10 km to 50 km altitude, or 33,000 feet to 164,000
feet). The ozone holes -- actually, areas of somewhat decreased ozone
concentrations, not the absence of ozone -- would let in too much
ultraviolate radiation (UVR), which would lead to skin cancer, genetic
damage, and the destruction of life on this planet.
Absolutely right, ozone depletion is a communist plot to overthrow
democracy and establish a one world government with Lucifer as it's leader.
A current list of the stated Ozone Depletion Conspirators.
01) The New York Times
02) Virtually Every Scientist on earth
03) all of the scientific press, both journals and textbooks
04) All Environmentalists
05) the vast majority of anyone with an advanced degree
06) the UN
07) the IPCC
0 All professional scientific societies, but the Petroleum Institute
09) U.S. Defense Department
10) Wikipedia
11) The World Meteorological Organization (WMO)
12) The National Auronautics and Space Administration (NASA)
13) The British Antarctic Survey
14) The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)
15) Realclimate.org
16) The Hadley Center
17) The Royal Society
1 The Royal Astronomical Society
19) The National Academy of Sciences
20) The American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS)
21) The American Physical Society
22) The American Institute of Physics
23) The Woods Hole Research Centre
24) The American Chemical Society (ACS)
25) The American Geophysical Union (AGU)
26) The U.S. Geophysical Service (USGS)
27) The National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR)
2 The National Resources Defense Council (NRDC)
29) The Union of Concerned Scientists (UCS)
30) The National Wildlife Federation (NWF)
31) The World Wildlife Federation (WWF)
32) The Audubon Society
33) The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)
34) Accuweather
35) Greenpiece
36) The world Conservation Union
37) The Sierra Club.
3 The board and article reviewers of the journal Nature
39) The board and article reviewers of the journal Science
40) The staff of Scientific American magazine
41) The staff of New Scientist Magazine.
42) The Queen of England
43) Michael Gorbachev
44) Muammar al-Gaddafi
45) Maurece Strong
46) Bill Gates
47) Ted Turner
4 Warren Buffet
49) Rupert Murdoch
50) Bill Moyers
51) Dr. David Suzuki
52) Stephen Hawking
53) ABC News
54) NBC News
55) CBS News
56) The Public Broadcasting system
57) And lets not forget - Al Gore. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| V-for-Vendicar... |
Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 7:10 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
"Poetic Justice" < at (no spam) http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-Dog.com> wrote
Quote: The added radiation bleaches their fur white and allows them to
survive....
And that's why polar bears in zoo's all around the world have to keep
artificially bleaching their polar bear's coats to keep them that lovely
shade of white.
KKKKonservative MMMMMMMMMOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOONNNNN |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| V-for-Vendicar... |
Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 7:25 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
"Benj" <bjacoby at (no spam) iwaynet.net> wrote.
Quote: My favorite irony is that the chemicals in the space shuttle boosters
reportedly do more ozone layer damage than a bazzillion cans of
deodorant.
How many Quatlooz in a Bazillion? Shit Sack. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Dirk Bruere at NeoPax... |
Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 8:05 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
d.086 at (no spam) hotmail.com wrote:
Quote: But there are many methods of producing energy that do not require
burning anything... the most effective of which, in the short-to-
medium term (0 to 50 years), are hydroelectric generators and nuclear
power plants. Since the former are limited by the number of rivers
The cheapest of which will be solar PV.
Electricity costs from PV are expected to match cost from new coal fired
plants before 2010 (Nanosolar says it can manufacture at that price now).
And the cost of PV will continue to fall well beyond that point.
--
Dirk
http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
Remote Viewing classes in London |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Lloyd... |
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 3:33 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On May 4, 4:48 pm, d.... at (no spam) hotmail.com wrote:
Quote: Has anyone done any research on polar bears blinded by ozone
depletion?
http://biglizards.net/blog/archives/2006/08/the_frozone_lay.html
August 21, 2006
The Glozone Layer
Enviro-Mental Cases , Globaloney Sandwich , Science - Bogus
Hatched by Dafydd
Beginning 28 years ago (starting with Sweden in 1978), the hysterical
fear-mongering du jour were a pair of rapidly expanding "holes" in the
ozone layer high above the Earth, one above each pole in the
stratosphere (10 km to 50 km altitude, or 33,000 feet to 164,000
feet). The ozone holes -- actually, areas of somewhat decreased ozone
concentrations, not the absence of ozone -- would let in too much
ultraviolate radiation (UVR), which would lead to skin cancer, genetic
damage, and the destruction of life on this planet.
The primary culprit for ozone depletion (this is actually correct) was
found to be manmade refrigerants, propellants, cleaners, and fire
extinguishers, nearly all based upon chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) and
bromofluorocarbons (BFCs). In an orgy of enviro-mental disorder,
virtually every civilized and semi-civilized nation on the planet
rushed to eliminate CFCs, substituting hydrochlorofluorocarbons
(HCFCs) and hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs) for the dreaded CFCs.
But now it turns out, with an irony thick enough to spread on a
muffin, that the wonderful chemicals we've shifted to using, in order
to allow the "ozone holes" to "heal," are themselves very powerful
greenhouse gases... and they're significantly contributing to
supposedly human-induced global warming:
Uh, CFCs are powerful greenhouse gases too, doofus.
Quote: The chemicals that replaced CFCs are better for the ozone layer, but
do little to help global warming. These chemicals, too, act as a
reflective layer in the atmosphere that traps heat like a greenhouse.
So do CFCs.
Quote: That effect is at odds with the intent of a second treaty, drawn up in
Kyoto, Japan, in 1997 by the same countries behind the Montreal pact.
In fact, the volume of greenhouse gases created as a result of the
Montreal agreement's phaseout of CFCs is two times to three times the
amount of global-warming carbon dioxide the Kyoto agreement is
supposed to eliminate.
The international association of the perpetually aggrieved now laments
the fact that nobody appears to own the earth's atmosphere... hence,
there is nobody to be sued:
"But now the question is, who's going to ensure that the replacements
are not going to cause global warming?" said Alexander von Bismarck,
campaigns director for the Environmental Investigation Agency, a
nonprofit watchdog group in London and Washington. "It's shocking that
so far nobody's taking responsibility."
"A massive opportunity to help stave off climate change is currently
being cast aside," he said.
Environmentalists now demand that those countries that spent
themselves into recessions replacing CFCs with HCFCs and HFCs do it
all over again, this time substituting for the substitutes:
HCFCs were always a temporary measure. Learn your history.
Quote: The U.N. report says the atmosphere could be spared the equivalent of
1 billion tons of carbon dioxide emissions if countries used ammonia,
hydrocarbons, carbon dioxide or other ozone-friendly chemicals, rather
than HCFCs and HFCs, in foams and refrigerants. Such alternatives are
more common in Europe.
And of course, most of the international enviromentalist organizations
are -- European! What a lucky break for countries of that continent.
Of course, the only other problem (besides prohibitive cost) is that
the alternatives don't work very well, if at all. But that's a small
price to pay for the priviliege of being on the cutting edge of
chemical conscientiousness.
What has always struck me as hilarious is that the folks who are most
exercised about global warming nevertheless recoil from the single
most effective method of redusing carbon and carbonoid emissions: a
massive program to replace all oil- and coal-based powerplants with
clean, modern, and safe nuclear fission reactors, using new
technologies. As Big Lizards discussed back in December:
But there are many methods of producing energy that do not require
burning anything... the most effective of which, in the short-to-
medium term (0 to 50 years), are hydroelectric generators and nuclear
power plants. Since the former are limited by the number of rivers
you're willing to dam (which causes rather significant environmental
change, to say the least!), we should probably concentrate on the
latter. Recent radically improved technologies for nuclear fission,
including Pebble Bed Modular Reactors (gas-cooled) and Integral Fast
Reactors (liquid-metal cooled), already exist in prototype but lack
either funding or a favorable political climate for wide-scale
development.
That last void is courtesy the environmentalist movement, which
demands we solve a problem while nixing all possible solutions.
But hey, what do I know? I gloriously wasted my youth studying real
mathematics and logic.
Hatched by Dafydd on this day, August 21, 2006, at the time of 4:49 AM |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Puppet_Sock... |
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 4:20 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On May 4, 8:25 pm, "V-for-Vendicar"
<Just... at (no spam) ExecuteTheBushTraitor.com> wrote:
Quote: "Benj" <bjac... at (no spam) iwaynet.net> wrote.
My favorite irony is that the chemicals in the space shuttle boosters
reportedly do more ozone layer damage than a bazzillion cans of
deodorant.
How many Quatlooz in a Bazillion? Shit Sack.
Oh look. Scotty finally changed his sig from "mmmmooorrrrroooon"
to "Shit Sack."
Socks |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| raylopez99... |
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:08 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On May 4, 1:48 pm, d.... at (no spam) hotmail.com wrote:
Quote:
http://biglizards.net/blog/archives/2006/08/the_frozone_lay.html
But now it turns out, with an irony thick enough to spread on a
muffin, that the wonderful chemicals we've shifted to using, in order
to allow the "ozone holes" to "heal," are themselves very powerful
greenhouse gases... and they're significantly contributing to
supposedly human-induced global warming:
Actually the latest research shows that the Ozone Hole is responsible
for making Antarctica cooler, by altering the wind patterns. And
despite disappearing from the media radar screen, the total supply of
ozone-depleting chemicals is not that far off from their pre-Montreal
Treaty highs.
"Further research is needed on the AGW = GW hypothesis"
RL |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| V-for-Vendicar... |
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 3:29 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Quote: "Benj" <bjac... at (no spam) iwaynet.net> wrote.
My favorite irony is that the chemicals in the space shuttle boosters
reportedly do more ozone layer damage than a bazzillion cans of
deodorant.
On May 4, 8:25 pm, "V-for-Vendicar"
Quote: How many Quatlooz in a Bazillion? Shit Sack.
"Puppet_Sock" <puppet_sock at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote
Quote: Oh look. Scotty finally changed his sig from "mmmmooorrrrroooon"
to "Shit Sack."
Puppet Sock can't answer the qeuestion either.
How many Quatlooz in a Bazillion? Shit Sac ][. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
|
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 5 Hours
The time now is Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:12 am
|
|