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Science Forum Index » Cognitive Science Forum » Brain Works More Chaotically Than Previously Thought
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| John Hasenkam |
 Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:59 am |
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Brain Works More Chaotically Than Previously Thought
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/02/070227105247.htm
The brain appears to process information more chaotically than has long been
assumed. This is demonstrated by a new study conducted by scientists at the
University of Bonn. The passing on of information from neuron to neuron does
not, they show, occur exclusively at the synapses, i.e. the junctions
between the nerve cell extensions. Rather, it seems that the neurons release
their chemical messengers along the entire length of these extensions and,
in this way, excite the neighbouring cells.
.... |
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| J.A.Legris |
| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:17 am |
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On Apr 19, 2:59 am, "John Hasenkam" <jo...@goawayplease.com> wrote:
Quote: Brain Works More Chaotically Than Previously Thought
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/02/070227105247.htm
The brain appears to process information more chaotically than has long been
assumed. This is demonstrated by a new study conducted by scientists at the
University of Bonn. The passing on of information from neuron to neuron does
not, they show, occur exclusively at the synapses, i.e. the junctions
between the nerve cell extensions. Rather, it seems that the neurons release
their chemical messengers along the entire length of these extensions and,
in this way, excite the neighbouring cells.
...
Káradóttir, R., Hamilton, N.B., Bakiri, Y & Attwell, D. Spiking and
nonspiking classes of oligodendrocyte precursor glia in CNS white
matter. Nature Neuroscience 11, 450 - 456 (2008).
Kukley, M., Capetillo-Zarate, E. & Dietrich, D. Vesicular release of
glutamate from axons in white matter. Nat. Neurosci. 10, 311–320
(2007).
Ziskin, J.L., Nishiyama, A., Rubio, M., Fukaya, M. & Bergles, D.E.
Vesicular release of glutamate from unmyelinated axons in white
matter. Nat. Neurosci. 10, 321–330 (2007). |
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| Alpha |
| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:29 am |
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On Apr 19, 5:17 am, "J.A.Legris" <jaleg...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Quote: On Apr 19, 2:59 am, "John Hasenkam" <jo...@goawayplease.com> wrote:
Brain Works More Chaotically Than Previously Thought
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/02/070227105247.htm
The brain appears to process information more chaotically than has long been
assumed. This is demonstrated by a new study conducted by scientists at the
University of Bonn. The passing on of information from neuron to neuron does
not, they show, occur exclusively at the synapses, i.e. the junctions
between the nerve cell extensions. Rather, it seems that the neurons release
their chemical messengers along the entire length of these extensions and,
in this way, excite the neighbouring cells.
...
Káradóttir, R., Hamilton, N.B., Bakiri, Y & Attwell, D. Spiking and
nonspiking classes of oligodendrocyte precursor glia in CNS white
matter. Nature Neuroscience 11, 450 - 456 (2008).
Kukley, M., Capetillo-Zarate, E. & Dietrich, D. Vesicular release of
glutamate from axons in white matter. Nat. Neurosci. 10, 311–320
(2007).
Ziskin, J.L., Nishiyama, A., Rubio, M., Fukaya, M. & Bergles, D.E.
Vesicular release of glutamate from unmyelinated axons in white
matter. Nat. Neurosci. 10, 321–330 (2007).
Indeed! It is the soup (as I have been saying) that also contributes
to "information processing"; not only the extracellular soup, but the
soup/structures/functions within each neuron as well; much of which,
it is presumed, has chaotic aspects, albeit with some emergent goals
that seem to lend themselves to autopoiesis. |
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| feedbackdroid |
| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:14 am |
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On Apr 19, 8:29 am, Alpha <omegazero2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote:
Indeed! It is the soup (as I have been saying) that also contributes
to "information processing"; not only the extracellular soup, but the
soup/structures/functions within each neuron as well; much of which,
it is presumed, has chaotic aspects, albeit with some emergent goals
that seem to lend themselves to autopoiesis.- Hide quoted text -
The system is anatomically more complex than commonly thought - DOH,
the more we learn, the less we realize we understand.
However, it's a little unclear why the author of the article chose to
use the word "chaotic". More conflation of ideas, I think. |
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| feedbackdroid |
| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:39 am |
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On Apr 19, 10:23 am, r norman <r_s_norman@_comcast.net> wrote:
Quote: On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 05:17:41 -0700 (PDT), "J.A.Legris"
jaleg...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
On Apr 19, 2:59 am, "John Hasenkam" <jo...@goawayplease.com> wrote:
Brain Works More Chaotically Than Previously Thought
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/02/070227105247.htm
The brain appears to process information more chaotically than has long been
assumed. This is demonstrated by a new study conducted by scientists at the
University of Bonn. The passing on of information from neuron to neuron does
not, they show, occur exclusively at the synapses, i.e. the junctions
between the nerve cell extensions. Rather, it seems that the neurons release
their chemical messengers along the entire length of these extensions and,
in this way, excite the neighbouring cells.
...
Káradóttir, R., Hamilton, N.B., Bakiri, Y & Attwell, D. Spiking and
nonspiking classes of oligodendrocyte precursor glia in CNS white
matter. Nature Neuroscience 11, 450 - 456 (2008).
Kukley, M., Capetillo-Zarate, E. & Dietrich, D. Vesicular release of
glutamate from axons in white matter. Nat. Neurosci. 10, 311–320
(2007).
Ziskin, J.L., Nishiyama, A., Rubio, M., Fukaya, M. & Bergles, D.E.
Vesicular release of glutamate from unmyelinated axons in white
matter. Nat. Neurosci. 10, 321–330 (2007).
The paper referred to in the news release does not seem to be
available at Nature Neuroscience yet. It is not clear what this
means for myelinated neurons where information could not readily be
transmitted in this fashion. Perhaps it is related to maintaining the
myelination.
In any event, many thanks for providing actual journal citations. I
hate reading only news releases.
From the brief description, it looks like glutamate release is related
to both development of myelination, and maintenance of same. Once the
myelination has occurred, prior knowledge suggests the axons are
roughly isolated from each other. All in all, it sounds like the
phenomenon described might have minor influence on regular brain
activity. |
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| Vend |
| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:29 am |
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On 19 Apr, 08:59, "John Hasenkam" <jo...@goawayplease.com> wrote:
Quote: Brain Works More Chaotically Than Previously Thought
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/02/070227105247.htm
The brain appears to process information more chaotically than has long been
assumed. This is demonstrated by a new study conducted by scientists at the
University of Bonn. The passing on of information from neuron to neuron does
not, they show, occur exclusively at the synapses, i.e. the junctions
between the nerve cell extensions. Rather, it seems that the neurons release
their chemical messengers along the entire length of these extensions and,
in this way, excite the neighbouring cells.
...
I'm not sure, but intuitively I would think that this discovery means
that the brain is actually less chaotic than previously thought, since
this way the transfer of information between different areas of the
brain looks a bit more like a diffusion process.
I know almost nothing about neurophysiology anyway, so mine is just an
idle speculation. |
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| John Hasenkam |
| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:46 am |
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"feedbackdroid" <feedbackdroid@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c9dedcf8-ff49-4562-b64f-b61b47f70176@n1g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 19, 8:29 am, Alpha <omegazero2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote:
Indeed! It is the soup (as I have been saying) that also contributes
to "information processing"; not only the extracellular soup, but the
soup/structures/functions within each neuron as well; much of which,
it is presumed, has chaotic aspects, albeit with some emergent goals
that seem to lend themselves to autopoiesis.- Hide quoted text -
The system is anatomically more complex than commonly thought - DOH,
the more we learn, the less we realize we understand.
However, it's a little unclear why the author of the article chose to
use the word "chaotic". More conflation of ideas, I think.
---
I was interested in this because of concepts like "volume transmission"(in
that regard the dynamics of nitric oxide is very interesting) and some
material I had read a few years stating the existence of glutamate receptors
on axons. The question is whether or not these axonal synapses and vesicles
actually contribute towards function or are just "leftovers" from
developmental processes.
Thanks for the references Joe. |
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| r norman |
| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:23 am |
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On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 05:17:41 -0700 (PDT), "J.A.Legris"
<jalegris@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Quote: On Apr 19, 2:59 am, "John Hasenkam" <jo...@goawayplease.com> wrote:
Brain Works More Chaotically Than Previously Thought
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/02/070227105247.htm
The brain appears to process information more chaotically than has long been
assumed. This is demonstrated by a new study conducted by scientists at the
University of Bonn. The passing on of information from neuron to neuron does
not, they show, occur exclusively at the synapses, i.e. the junctions
between the nerve cell extensions. Rather, it seems that the neurons release
their chemical messengers along the entire length of these extensions and,
in this way, excite the neighbouring cells.
...
Káradóttir, R., Hamilton, N.B., Bakiri, Y & Attwell, D. Spiking and
nonspiking classes of oligodendrocyte precursor glia in CNS white
matter. Nature Neuroscience 11, 450 - 456 (2008).
Kukley, M., Capetillo-Zarate, E. & Dietrich, D. Vesicular release of
glutamate from axons in white matter. Nat. Neurosci. 10, 311–320
(2007).
Ziskin, J.L., Nishiyama, A., Rubio, M., Fukaya, M. & Bergles, D.E.
Vesicular release of glutamate from unmyelinated axons in white
matter. Nat. Neurosci. 10, 321–330 (2007).
The paper referred to in the news release does not seem to be
available at Nature Neuroscience yet. It is not clear what this
means for myelinated neurons where information could not readily be
transmitted in this fashion. Perhaps it is related to maintaining the
myelination.
In any event, many thanks for providing actual journal citations. I
hate reading only news releases. |
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| Josip Almasi |
| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:28 am |
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John Hasenkam wrote:
Well correct me if I'm wrong.
Active axons work better, in more details: signaling axon releases
glutamate, which stimulates oligodendrocytes to produce myelin, which
envelopes axons and makes them conduct better.
Seems elegant solution to grow envelope around a conducting cable;)
Also sort of reinforcement feedback.
As for the new thing,
"We think, however, that on their way though the grey matter the axons
probably release glutamate at other points apart from the synapses,"
Dietrich speculates. "Nerve cells and dendrites are closely packed
together here. So the axon could not only excite the actual receptor but
also numerous other nerve cells."
it's quite interesting, could be involved in synchronous firing during
pattern recognition etc.
Regards... |
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