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Science Forum Index » Anthropology - Paleo Forum » Gorilla-sized thick-enameled wetland waders?
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| Marc Verhaegen |
 Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:12 pm |
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Thanks, m3d.
http://biology.plosjournals.org/archive/1545-7885/3/11/figure/10.1371_journa
l.pbio.0030380.g001-L.jpg
I don't think the gorillas learned from humans how to use a stick to measure
the depth of the water. Orangs use tools, chimps use tools, humans use
tools: no wonder gorillas use tools.
Tool use in mammals is often correlated to durophagy & thick enamel.
Early hominids-pongids typically had thick enamel (eg, Heliopith,
Austriacopith in coastal forests) or super-thick enamel (eg, Ouranopith,
Samburupith, Nakalipith, Chororapith, A.boisei//robustus in open wetlands),
but those in wet forests often had thinner enamel (Dryopith, Oreopith,
Ardipith...).
It's striking how the early hominids in Africa c.10-7 Ma were large
wetland-dwellers with thick enamel (gorilla-sized or almost):
Nakali-Chorora-Samburupith-Sahelanthr.
It's possible that all hominids (not only gorillas, but also chimps, bonobos
& humans) had gorilla-sized ancestors, possibly in +-open wetlands, probably
wading bipedally, possibly with a diet overlapping that of gorillas: AHV
(aquatic herbaceous vegetation), fruits, sedges, papyrus & perhaps bamboo,
but the much thicker enamel than in gorillas suggests also nuts &
hard-shelled fruits &/or hard-helled invertebrates, see the work of Shabel
(AAPA abstracts 2007 & 2008) on durophagy in hominids.
--Marc
Quote: Gorilla wading, feeding in water ...
She began to cross the pool walking bipedally, but
after her first steps the water quickly became waist
deep and she returned to the pool edge. Leah then
re-entered again bipedally and grabbed the straight
branch in front of her with her right hand .
Relative to Leah's body size we estimated the leafless
branch as being approximately 1 m long and 2 cm thick.
Leah then detached the stick and, stretching forward
with it in her right hand, seemed to use it to test
the water depth or substrate stability: she grasped
the stick firmly and repeatedly prodded the water in
front of her with the end of the stick.
First Observation of Tool Use in Wild Gorillas.
Thomas Breuer, Mireille Ndoundou-Hockemba1,
Vicki Fishlock
PLoS 2005
http://tinyurl.com/5tcz7p
...
The people who documented the behavior suggest
that the gorillas possibly learned their unusual
behavior from interactions with humans. Captive
gorillas have been documented picking up stone
throwing from their chimpanzee neighbors, so it's
not too improbably that wild gorillas could pick
up grass and branch hurling from human
neighbors.
Non-Human Primate Tool Use: Gorillas Weilding
Weapons, Macaques & Mirror Neurons
Primatology.net
January. 2008
http://tinyurl.com/6pw3ka
Are we observing the behaviour of gorillas and
other apes, or are they observing ours ...
---m3d |
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| Lee Olsen |
| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:12 pm |
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On Apr 22, 1:12 pm, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
Quote:
I don't think the gorillas learned from humans how to use a stick to measure
the depth of the water. Orangs use tools, chimps use tools, humans use
tools: no wonder gorillas use tools.
Says the wetloon who doesn't know anymore about tools than he knows
about
mountain beavers:
Message-ID: <C3FDE43F.FC0B%m_verhaegen@skynet.be>
"Why do you believe the "spears" could not have been used for fish?"
ROFL |
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| Claudius Denk |
| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:12 pm |
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On Apr 22, 2:35 pm, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote: On Apr 22, 1:12 pm, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
I don't think the gorillas learned from humans how to use a stick to measure
the depth of the water. Orangs use tools, chimps use tools, humans use
tools: no wonder gorillas use tools.
Says the wetloon who doesn't know anymore about tools than he knows
about
I don't know what you are whining about.
Quote: mountain beavers:
Message-ID: <C3FDE43F.FC0B%m_verhaegen@skynet.be
"Why do you believe the "spears" could not have been used for fish?"
ROFL
Is this true? Do you really believe that spears couldn't be used for
fish? Why not? |
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| Lee Olsen |
| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:12 pm |
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On Apr 22, 2:58 pm, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Quote: Is this true? Do you really believe that spears couldn't be used for
fish? Why not?
Think you will ever be able to follow a thread without screwing up? |
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| Claudius Denk |
| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:51 pm |
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On Apr 22, 3:38 pm, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote: On Apr 22, 2:58 pm, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Is this true? Do you really believe that spears couldn't be used for
fish? Why not?
Think you will ever be able to follow a thread without screwing up?
Would you like to make a retraction? |
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| Lee Olsen |
| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:27 pm |
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On Apr 22, 6:51 pm, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Quote: On Apr 22, 3:38 pm, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 22, 2:58 pm, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Is this true? Do you really believe that spears couldn't be used for
fish? Why not?
Think you will ever be able to follow a thread without screwing up?
Would you like to make a retraction?
Umm, no, I don't think so.....
1 Nobody lived on the savanna until the advent of jeeps and guns.
2 Lions evolved from saber-tooth cats.
3 Apiths never ventured more than 50/100 yds away from a tree.
4 Climate change is not happening presently.
5 Agriculture probably stretches back hundreds
of thousand if not millions of years.
6 Genetic drift is a pseudo-scientific notion.
7 Spears are useless against hyena and lions.
8 ..then what purpose do the stone weapons (spears, bow and
arrow) serve that show up in the fossil record starting about 2.5
mya?
9. Then you should stop;pissing into it.
10 Speak for yourself. I see just fine at night.
11. Uh, er. These artifacts don't come with notes attached to them
that
indicate how they were actually used.
12. Why we see stasis in tool advancement up until a few thousand
years ago.
13. So Paul, now that you've, finally, come to accept the fact that
early
hominids--both A'pith and HE--resided in treed habitat |
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| Claudius Denk |
| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:10 pm |
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On Apr 22, 7:27 pm, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote: On Apr 22, 6:51 pm, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On Apr 22, 3:38 pm, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 22, 2:58 pm, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Is this true? Do you really believe that spears couldn't be used for
fish? Why not?
Think you will ever be able to follow a thread without screwing up?
Would you like to make a retraction?
Umm, no, I don't think so.....
You really should. Really. Remember what happened when Clark passed
up the opportunity to make a retraction. Hell, that's why you guys
are in such a big mess now. Don't go and make it worse. Just make
the retraction.
Tell you what. Let's do this. I'll consider it retracted. You don't
have to do anything, All you have to do is just not respond to this
post. And I'll never mention it again.
I think you'll agree that this is fair.
Remember now, you just have to not respond to this post. |
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| Lee Olsen |
| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:18 am |
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On Apr 23, 12:10 am, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Quote: On Apr 22, 7:27 pm, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 22, 6:51 pm, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On Apr 22, 3:38 pm, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 22, 2:58 pm, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Is this true? Do you really believe that spears couldn't be used for
fish? Why not?
Think you will ever be able to follow a thread without screwing up?
Would you like to make a retraction?
Umm, no, I don't think so.....
You really should. Really.
No, you have just proven, once again, that you are a brainless, lying
troll.
I'm going to give you a hint:
"You dimwits read between the lines then try to take
me to task for things I never stated. Quote me directly you stooge."
Remember saying that, you hypocritical idiot? |
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| Claudius Denk |
| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:39 am |
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On Apr 23, 5:18 am, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote: On Apr 23, 12:10 am, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On Apr 22, 7:27 pm, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 22, 6:51 pm, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On Apr 22, 3:38 pm, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 22, 2:58 pm, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Is this true? Do you really believe that spears couldn't be used for
fish? Why not?
Think you will ever be able to follow a thread without screwing up?
Would you like to make aretraction?
Umm, no, I don't think so.....
You really should. Really.
No, you have just proven, once again, that you are a brainless, lying
troll.
I'm going to give you a hint:
"You dimwits read between the lines then try to take
me to task for things I never stated. Quote me directly you stooge."
Remember saying that, you hypocritical idiot?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Ohhh! That's too bad. Now I have no choice but to continue to ask
you to make the retraction.
So, how about it, Lee. Would you like to make the retraction? |
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| Lee Olsen |
| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:02 am |
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On Apr 23, 8:39 am, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Quote: On Apr 23, 5:18 am, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 23, 12:10 am, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On Apr 22, 7:27 pm, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 22, 6:51 pm, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On Apr 22, 3:38 pm, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 22, 2:58 pm, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Is this true? Do you really believe that spears couldn't be used for
fish? Why not?
Think you will ever be able to follow a thread without screwing up?
Would you like to make aretraction?
Umm, no, I don't think so.....
You really should. Really.
No, you have just proven, once again, that you are a brainless, lying
troll.
I'm going to give you a hint:
"You dimwits read between the lines then try to take
me to task for things I never stated. Quote me directly you stooge."
Remember saying that, you hypocritical idiot?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Ohhh! That's too bad. Now I have no choice but to continue to ask
you to make the retraction.
So, how about it, Lee. Would you like to make the retraction?
"Quote me directly you stooge." |
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| Claudius Denk |
| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:46 am |
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On Apr 23, 9:02 am, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote: On Apr 23, 8:39 am, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On Apr 23, 5:18 am, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 23, 12:10 am, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On Apr 22, 7:27 pm, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 22, 6:51 pm, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On Apr 22, 3:38 pm, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 22, 2:58 pm, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Is this true? Do you really believe that spears couldn't be used for
fish? Why not?
Think you will ever be able to follow a thread without screwing up?
Would you like to make aretraction?
Umm, no, I don't think so.....
You really should. Really.
No, you have just proven, once again, that you are a brainless, lying
troll.
I'm going to give you a hint:
"You dimwits read between the lines then try to take
me to task for things I never stated. Quote me directly you stooge."
Remember saying that, you hypocritical idiot?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Ohhh! That's too bad. Now I have no choice but to continue to ask
you to make the retraction.
So, how about it, Lee. Would you like to make the retraction?
"Quote me directly you stooge."- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Read upthread.
You really should make the retraction. Ask Mikey. |
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| Lee Olsen |
| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:16 am |
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On Apr 23, 9:46 am, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Quote: On Apr 23, 9:02 am, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 23, 8:39 am, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On Apr 23, 5:18 am, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 23, 12:10 am, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On Apr 22, 7:27 pm, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 22, 6:51 pm, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On Apr 22, 3:38 pm, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 22, 2:58 pm, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Is this true? Do you really believe that spears couldn't be used for
fish? Why not?
Think you will ever be able to follow a thread without screwing up?
Would you like to make aretraction?
Umm, no, I don't think so.....
You really should. Really.
No, you have just proven, once again, that you are a brainless, lying
troll.
I'm going to give you a hint:
"You dimwits read between the lines then try to take
me to task for things I never stated. Quote me directly you stooge."
Remember saying that, you hypocritical idiot?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Ohhh! That's too bad. Now I have no choice but to continue to ask
you to make the retraction.
So, how about it, Lee. Would you like to make the retraction?
"Quote me directly you stooge."- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Read upthread.
Yep, I just did and what I found was, you are a liar.
"Do you really believe that spears couldn't be used for
fish?"
You said that, not me. That is why you can't make a direct quote. You
made that up, you lied and you have been caught again, by your own
words.
Quote:
You really should make the retraction.
Is that you argument, clown? A strawman is the best you have? Anyone
with an
IQ of over 60 should be able to type into the forum search box the
quote I made and find the thread, the cited data, and the people who
made the statements.
Make your apology, or stick your troll where the sun don't shine. |
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| spiznet |
| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:21 am |
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On Apr 23, 3:10 am, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Quote: On Apr 22, 7:27 pm, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 22, 6:51 pm, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On Apr 22, 3:38 pm, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 22, 2:58 pm, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Is this true? Do you really believe that spears couldn't be used for
fish? Why not?
Think you will ever be able to follow a thread without screwing up?
Would you like to make a retraction?
Umm, no, I don't think so.....
You really should. Really. Remember what happened when Clark passed
up the opportunity to make a retraction. Hell, that's why you guys
are in such a big mess now. Don't go and make it worse. Just make
the retraction.
Tell you what. Let's do this. I'll consider it retracted. You don't
have to do anything, All you have to do is just not respond to this
post. And I'll never mention it again.
I think you'll agree that this is fair.
Remember now, you just have to not respond to this post.
Is this when you decided to change your name??
A big mess?? Why: due to the fact that you and MV keeps posting
nonsense replies? |
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| Claudius Denk |
| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:37 am |
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On Apr 23, 10:21 am, spiznet <m...@spiznet.com> wrote:
Quote: On Apr 23, 3:10 am, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On Apr 22, 7:27 pm, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 22, 6:51 pm, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On Apr 22, 3:38 pm, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 22, 2:58 pm, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Is this true? Do you really believe that spears couldn't be used for
fish? Why not?
Think you will ever be able to follow a thread without screwing up?
Would you like to make a retraction?
Umm, no, I don't think so.....
You really should. Really. Remember what happened when Clark passed
up the opportunity to make a retraction. Hell, that's why you guys
are in such a big mess now. Don't go and make it worse. Just make
the retraction.
Tell you what. Let's do this. I'll consider it retracted. You don't
have to do anything, All you have to do is just not respond to this
post. And I'll never mention it again.
I think you'll agree that this is fair.
Remember now, you just have to not respond to this post.
Is this when you decided to change your name??
A big mess?? Why: due to the fact that you and MV keeps posting
nonsense replies?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Nosepickers like yourself need to make a special effort to look at the
title of the thread and try to stay on topic. Do you agree with Lee
that spears couldn't be used for fish? Why not? How about other
creatures that can be found in or near aquatic/littoral habitat?
Please make a special effort to address content. |
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| Lee Olsen |
| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:51 am |
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On Apr 23, 12:37 pm, Claudius Denk <claudiusd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Quote:
Do you agree with Lee
that spears couldn't be used for fish?
The reason the is no direct quote about Lee's position from McGin is
because Lee never said any such thing. Claud is a liar. Quote me
directly you lying piece of horse shit.
Are you really as dumb as you pretend? |
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