Pope to Debate Intelligent Design

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SBC Yahoo

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:35 am

Guest

Philosophers, scientists and other intellectuals close to Pope Benedict will
gather at his summer palace outside Rome this week for intensive discussions
that could herald a fundamental shift in the Vatican's view of evolution.

There have been growing signs the Pope is considering aligning his church
more closely with the theory of "intelligent design" taught in some US
states. Advocates of the theory argue that some features of the universe and
nature are so complex that they must have been designed by a higher
intelligence. Critics say it is a disguise for creationism.

A prominent anti-evolutionist and Roman Catholic scientist, Dominique
Tassot, told the US National Catholic Reporter that this week's meeting was
"to give a broader extension to the debate. Even if [the Pope] knows where
he wants to go, and I believe he does, it will take time. Most Catholic
intellectuals today are convinced that evolution is obviously true because
most scientists say so." In 1996, in what was seen as a capitulation to
scientific orthodoxy, John Paul II said Darwin's theories were "more than a
hypothesis".

Last week, at a conference in Rimini, Cardinal Christoph Schönborn of
Austria revealed that evolution and creation had been chosen as the subjects
for this year's meeting of the Pope's Schülerkreis - a group consisting
mainly of his former doctoral students that has been gathering annually
since the late 1970s. Apart from Cardinal Schönborn, participants at the
closed-door meeting will include the president of the Austrian Academy of
Sciences, Peter Schuster; the conservative ethical philosopher Robert
Spaemann; and Paul Elbrich, professor of philosophy at Munich University

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2006/aug/28/religion.pope

- - - - -<><> - - - - -

Next to Mullah Omar, the pope is my favorite religious nut. He announced
yesterday that he was attending a conference after he leaves the USA, to
debate Intelligent Design.

What's to debate, ID looses, and it is not even close, if one uses actual
science (facts).

I can save him some frequent flyer miles, go home to the palatial vatican
and pope some more on that gilded throne. You loose the debate.

- - - - -</> <\> - - - - -

Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:21 pm

M Dominique Tassot's & his friends ' views on Geology can be found on
the site of the CESHE
http://www.chez.com/ceshe/

Quite interesting although there is confusion between what they see as
direct sedimentation out of erosion, and what the True Geology
considers rightly as secondary deposition.
No Erosion of Crystalline aluminium silicates structures by water
indeed. This is an impossibility as the True Geology demonstrates

Further there are direct parallel between the theories defended by the
CESHE and the ones defended by that international Official body of
idiots supporting Evolution and Big Bang Creationism ( + a 1000 other
lunatic considerations ) ....

In my view both understanding are demonstrating that "NO GROUP OF
PEOPLE CAN REACH WITHOUT AN INITIATOR ! "

The evidence is that the Human Mind can only extrapolate but NOT
conceive out of huge array of distorted & unrelated facts the real
sequence of events leading to the facts under his very eyes ...
Childish, Infantile theories by Universities slow learners so-called
authorities become the rule then ... and the cowardly mass of
sci000ntists interested by their bread & butter depending on their
adhesion to consensus falls immediately in line !

Jean-Paul Turcaud
Discoverer of Telfer, Nifty & Kintyre mines in the Great Sandy Desert
Exploration Geologist & Offshore Consultant
Bus ph + 33 6 50 17 14 64
Founder of the True Geology

~ Ignorance is the Cosmic Sin, the One never Forgiven ~

Matthew Lybanon

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:44 am

Guest

In article <DRKMj.20023$%41.18681@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com>,
"SBC Yahoo" <atilla.the.hun@liberals.suck.net> wrote:

Quote:

Loose?

SBC Yahoo

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:52 am

Guest

"Matthew Lybanon" <lybanon@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:lybanon-AC966D.09442715042008@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...

Quote:

In article <DRKMj.20023$%41.18681@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com>,
"SBC Yahoo" <atilla.the.hun@liberals.suck.net> wrote:

Philosophers, scientists and other intellectuals close to Pope Benedict
will
gather at his summer palace outside Rome this week for intensive
discussions
that could herald a fundamental shift in the Vatican's view of evolution.

There have been growing signs the Pope is considering aligning his church
more closely with the theory of "intelligent design" taught in some US
states. Advocates of the theory argue that some features of the universe
and
nature are so complex that they must have been designed by a higher
intelligence. Critics say it is a disguise for creationism.

A prominent anti-evolutionist and Roman Catholic scientist, Dominique
Tassot, told the US National Catholic Reporter that this week's meeting
was
"to give a broader extension to the debate. Even if [the Pope] knows
where
he wants to go, and I believe he does, it will take time. Most Catholic
intellectuals today are convinced that evolution is obviously true
because
most scientists say so." In 1996, in what was seen as a capitulation to
scientific orthodoxy, John Paul II said Darwin's theories were "more than
a
hypothesis".

Last week, at a conference in Rimini, Cardinal Christoph Schönborn of
Austria revealed that evolution and creation had been chosen as the
subjects
for this year's meeting of the Pope's Schülerkreis - a group consisting
mainly of his former doctoral students that has been gathering annually
since the late 1970s. Apart from Cardinal Schönborn, participants at the
closed-door meeting will include the president of the Austrian Academy of
Sciences, Peter Schuster; the conservative ethical philosopher Robert
Spaemann; and Paul Elbrich, professor of philosophy at Munich University

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2006/aug/28/religion.pope

- - - - -<><> - - - - -

Next to Mullah Omar, the pope is my favorite religious nut. He announced
yesterday that he was attending a conference after he leaves the USA, to
debate Intelligent Design.

What's to debate, ID looses, and it is not even close, if one uses actual
science (facts).

I can save him some frequent flyer miles, go home to the palatial vatican
and pope some more on that gilded throne. You loose the debate.

- - - - -</> <\> - - - - -

Loose?
- - - - -<><> - - - - -

Yes, "loose" is the global warming/politically correct way of spelling
"lose". According to my ex, spelling was my biggest fault, not to mention
the 252 "alleged faults" she suggested I may have. But when I was in
college, many, many years ago I always heard engineers could not spell, and
" I are an Enginer".

- - - - -</> <\> - - - - -

Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:00 pm

On 17 avr, 03:03, "jonathan" <H...@write.instead.net> wrote:

No, Jonathan, the basic question is whether Mankind has the scope to
understand Nature & Nature Laws !
It has not, I am afraid, and the allegory of Plato's cave is not even
grasped by the smallest minority

Do you understand the genius at work behing a "cabbage"
construction ?
Mankind in most of its part is barely above the level of the dog, when
one is realising what is beyond its understanding & perception

Steinhardt included with his cycles and Big Bang (s) ... only playing
with words in fact. jpturcaud.

jonathan

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:03 pm

Guest

"SBC Yahoo" <atilla.the.hun@liberals.suck.net> wrote in message
news:DRKMj.20023$%41.18681@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com...

Quote:

Maybe the reason is that much has changed in the last ten years
that paint a far different picture of the universe and it's inherent
properties. For starters, the latest cosmology has a universe
that is cyclic, one leads directly to another. The role of dark
energy and matter also give rise to the idea that the universe
itself evolves much like life does. Where a basic property is
that systems self-tune to the optimum, and converge on the
best practicle answer for any given problem.

See Princetons Physics Dept for the ...latest...concepts.

Escpecially....A Quintessential Intro to Dark Energy
http://wwwphy.princeton.edu/~steinh/

So, the latest math shows the universe as a whole has the very
same abstract ability to evolve as life. With random interactions
....summing over...to initiate the creative process at ...all scales.
Whether the system is physical, living or universal.

They all share the same inherent ability to create.

Now, whether we can call that inherent property the result of
intelligence is more a matter of semantics than anything else.
Information from a previous universe informed or helped to
shape the design of this universe. Like any evolving process
the whole takes on a form of an iterated loop into itself....cyclic.

So, we could honestly claim that the problem solving of an earlier
universe made it's way into this one. Is that a previous intelligence?

Is the collective 'wisdom' of mother nature, passed on from one
universe to the next....intelligence?

Does nature or evolution have a 'design' that it prefers?

Sure...why not?

Luck alone, as in if we had a million earth's one or two would get
lucky enough...., does not explain what we observe.

What we observe is that /just as soon/ as the universe cools enough
to become matter dominated that life evolves straight away.
What we observe is that /just as soon/ as our sun cools enough for
water to exist on earth, life springs forth right away.
And so on, life isn't a fluke of chance or it would evolve /near the middle/
of the span of opportunity, not always near the very beginning.

Quote:

Advocates of the theory argue that some features of the universe and nature
are so complex that they must have been designed by a higher intelligence.
Critics say it is a disguise for creationism.

The truth is something a bit different. Once a system becomes complex
enough, it spontaneously evolves and starts hill-climbing and
problem solving. Once complex enough systems begin converging
on the optimum and acting...as if...they were the result of some
supreme wisdom.

Whether nature has a design it tends to follow is without question.
Why systems self organize and act ...as if...the result of wisdom
is also an established science.

Self-Organizing Systems (SOS) FAQ
http://www.calresco.org/sos/sosfaq.htm

As to ..why...the universe and all within share the inherent ability
to evolve, and in the Darwinian sense, is simply that any other
kind of universe wouldn't survive to reproduce itself.

A cyclic universe can only produce a creative one.

prk via NatScience.com

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:27 pm

Guest

SBC Yahoo wrote:

Quote:

The Pope already said evolution is ok as long as you think it's part of god's
plan...

--
Message posted via NatScience.com
http://www.natscience.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/geology/200804/1

SBC Yahoo

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:12 pm

Guest

"prk via NatScience.com" <u42669@uwe> wrote in message
news:82ca477c7e93e@uwe...

Quote:

SBC Yahoo wrote:
Philosophers, scientists and other intellectuals close to Pope Benedict
will
gather at his summer palace outside Rome this week for intensive
discussions
that could herald a fundamental shift in the Vatican's view of evolution.

The Pope already said evolution is ok as long as you think it's part of
god's
plan...

--
Message posted via NatScience.com
http://www.natscience.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/geology/200804/1

-----<><>- - - - -
The Pope is talking about 'the man that walks on the clouds and watches us
to see who is good and who is bad.'
A good documentary movie pointing out all the BS presented by the church in
a factual way, is 'The God Who Wasn't There'
http://www.thegodmovie.com/ Other than the fact that it was produced on a
small budget in Los Angeles, it points out that the church and a con artist
act in exactly the same manner, changing their story every time it is
questioned as a lie, by presenting factual evidence conflicting with the
church's fairy tales.

Religion, any religion, is not about truth, facts, or people, it is about
control. It is a poor man's power, because in the early days when it
appeared, only those born to nobility had anything, unless they commanded a
large army and killed the noble king.

The connection between jesus and historical hero figures, aka. what those
that actually wrote the bible used for guides, is well made in the
documetnary. I sent a copy to the pope, but he will never get it, and would
call it heresy, anyway. Perhaps he will send me my official
ex-communication certificate in reply. (I would return it to him with
instructiions on where and how to insert it)

Physicists do not have much of a clue (fact based clue) as to what makes the
universe work, or how big it is. They just have numerous theories, at this
time, and almost all of them are wrong, at least partially. That much I do
know, as well as I know all religion si pure BS. However, as long as the
basic premise in science is the "search for the truth", they will answer all
of their questions, one day.
01001010 - - - - -</> <\> - - - - -

jonathan

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:37 pm

Guest

<sir.jeanpaul-turcaud@neuf.fr> wrote in message
news:3f0ee6e7-7a92-4a1a-a2cd-a1a849b4ef33@24g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

Quote:

Nature, in all her diversity, is the shadows on the wall.
Her laws are the guiding emergent system properties
only seen in the light of the whole.

Quote:

Do you understand the genius at work behing a "cabbage"
construction ?

Can you see the common process behind the creation of a
cabbage and an idea? Until you do, you haven't simplified
the laws of nature sufficiently to grasp its beauty.

Complexity science renders such comparisons trivial.
Until you understand the fundamental change in the
frame of reference used by the complexity sciences, you
are still chained to the cave. Objective reductionist
methods provide only a shadow of Nature's laws.

Quote:

Mankind in most of its part is barely above the level of the dog, when
one is realising what is beyond its understanding & perception

But extrapolate the parable of the cave from its simplest beginning
to its logical conclusion.

Truth and good are found when? At the end of that process NOT
at the beggining. The wisdom of Creation, God, emerges at the end
of the evolutionary ladder. And like the prisoner that has seen the
light, is compelled to return and attempt to repeat the creative process
over and over.

Quote:

Steinhardt included with his cycles and Big Bang (s) ... only playing
with words in fact. jpturcaud.

His cyclic universe begins to complete the big picture.
The previous universe ends under conditions ideal for
the creation of the next one.

>

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