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Science Forum Index » Medicine - Cancer Forum » Cancer/Dormant chronic disease & Immune Response?
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| Kumar |
 Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:16 pm |
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Guest
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Hello,
I am bit unclear on how host immune defence(not immunotherapies) can
delay & treat cancer and other dormant/latent diseases:
Can host immune defence mechanism delay, treat & cure cancer and other
chronic/latent diseases, eg; TB? If yes, how it works and progress, if
a patient remains untreated by modern interventions?
Best wishes. |
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| Kumar |
| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 3:48 am |
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Guest
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On Mar 23, 5:01 pm, Dan <dannom...@nospamstuff.org> wrote:
Quote: on 3/23/08 12:16 AM Kumar said the following:
Hello,
I am bit unclear on how host immune defence(not immunotherapies) can
delay & treat cancer and other dormant/latent diseases:
Can host immune defence mechanism delay, treat & cure cancer and other
chronic/latent diseases, eg; TB? If yes, how it works and progress, if
a patient remains untreated by modern interventions?
Best wishes.
the immune system can slow down cancer spread along with chemo. The
problem with cancer is uncontrolled cell division (using lots of
glucose). So the best approach is to try to turn off the cancer
pathway. That is what epigenetics is all about.
Pls tell me more about turning off cancer pathway. If nutrients or
blood supply to cancer cells is restricted or stopped, can it control
cancer? Other way, Whether immune cells kill or can kill cancer cells,
if immunity is strong? |
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| Dan |
| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:01 am |
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Guest
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on 3/23/08 12:16 AM Kumar said the following:
Quote: Hello,
I am bit unclear on how host immune defence(not immunotherapies) can
delay & treat cancer and other dormant/latent diseases:
Can host immune defence mechanism delay, treat & cure cancer and other
chronic/latent diseases, eg; TB? If yes, how it works and progress, if
a patient remains untreated by modern interventions?
Best wishes.
the immune system can slow down cancer spread along with chemo. The
problem with cancer is uncontrolled cell division (using lots of
glucose). So the best approach is to try to turn off the cancer
pathway. That is what epigenetics is all about. |
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| Dan |
| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:58 pm |
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Guest
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on 3/23/08 8:48 AM Kumar said the following:
Quote: On Mar 23, 5:01 pm, Dan <dannom...@nospamstuff.org> wrote:
on 3/23/08 12:16 AM Kumar said the following:
Hello,
I am bit unclear on how host immune defence(not immunotherapies) can
delay & treat cancer and other dormant/latent diseases:
Can host immune defence mechanism delay, treat & cure cancer and other
chronic/latent diseases, eg; TB? If yes, how it works and progress, if
a patient remains untreated by modern interventions?
Best wishes.
the immune system can slow down cancer spread along with chemo. The
problem with cancer is uncontrolled cell division (using lots of
glucose). So the best approach is to try to turn off the cancer
pathway. That is what epigenetics is all about.
Pls tell me more about turning off cancer pathway. If nutrients or
blood supply to cancer cells is restricted or stopped, can it control
cancer? Other way, Whether immune cells kill or can kill cancer cells,
if immunity is strong?
Well, the problem is other cells need nutrients too. And the immune
system can't always identify wayward native cells. That is why people
are rarely cured of cancer (i.e. uncontrolled cell division)
Simply use google to search on 'epigenetics':
http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&q=epigenetics&btnG=Google+Search
This holds out the best hope for reprogramming the cancer cells, much
like fixing bugs in software. |
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| Kumar |
| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:41 pm |
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Guest
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On Mar 24, 7:58 am, Dan <dannom...@nospamstuff.org> wrote:
Quote: on 3/23/08 8:48 AM Kumar said the following:
On Mar 23, 5:01 pm, Dan <dannom...@nospamstuff.org> wrote:
on 3/23/08 12:16 AM Kumar said the following:
Hello,
I am bit unclear on how host immune defence(not immunotherapies) can
delay & treat cancer and other dormant/latent diseases:
Can host immune defence mechanism delay, treat & cure cancer and other
chronic/latent diseases, eg; TB? If yes, how it works and progress, if
a patient remains untreated by modern interventions?
Best wishes.
the immune system can slow down cancer spread along with chemo. The
problem with cancer is uncontrolled cell division (using lots of
glucose). So the best approach is to try to turn off the cancer
pathway. That is what epigenetics is all about.
Pls tell me more about turning off cancer pathway. If nutrients or
blood supply to cancer cells is restricted or stopped, can it control
cancer? Other way, Whether immune cells kill or can kill cancer cells,
if immunity is strong?
Well, the problem is other cells need nutrients too. And the immune
system can't always identify wayward native cells. That is why people
are rarely cured of cancer (i.e. uncontrolled cell division)
Whether following quote can be relevnt to how host defence works on
cancer and other infections in dormacy:
"Iron Loading and Disease Surveillance
Eugene D. Weinberg
Indiana University, Bloomington, Indiana, USA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iron is an oxidant as well as a nutrient for invading microbial and
neoplastic cells. Excessive iron in specific tissues and cells (iron
loading) promotes development of infection, neoplasia, cardiomyopathy,
arthropathy, and various endocrine and possibly neurodegenerative
disorders. To contain and detoxify the metal, hosts have evolved an
iron withholding defense system, but the system can be compromised by
numerous factors. An array of behavioral, medical, and immunologic
methods are in place or in development to strengthen iron withholding.
Routine screening for iron loading could provide valuable information
in epidemiologic, diagnostic, prophylactic, and therapeutic studies of
emerging infectious diseases.
http://www.cdc.gov/Ncidod/EID/vol5no3/weinberg.htm "
Broadly, there may three states, primary, dormant and active in
chronic dormant typediseases as cancer, TB etc. I think, there may be
two types of progression in each state representing fight for survival
betwwen host defence and disease agents. As such one should be
direction towards cure/ treatment(host defence mediated) and other
direction towards progression of disease(disease agent mediated.
Whoever is stronger can wil ultimately. As such, I was willing to
better understand, possible direction towards cure/treatment by host
defence in all three states.
Btw, When host defence recognizes cancer cells & start working?
> - Show quoted text - |
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| Steph |
| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:18 pm |
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Guest
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"Dan" <dannomano@nospamstuff.org> wrote in message
news:47e718d2$0$12592$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
Quote:
Well, the problem is other cells need nutrients too. And the immune
system can't always identify wayward native cells. That is why people are
rarely cured of cancer (i.e. uncontrolled cell division)
I wish people who purport to have at least some knowledge would be careful
with posting erroneous statements.......
"People are rarely cured of cancer..."?
Over 95% of skin cancers are cured.
The commonest 20 other cancers in adults account for over 90% of all adult
cancers. The five year survival rate is 65% overall, and most of those
people are cured.
So people are OFTEN cured of cancer, not 'rarely" |
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| Kumar |
| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:46 pm |
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Guest
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On Mar 25, 1:18 am, "Steph" <st...@vancouvers.island> wrote:
Quote: "Dan" <dannom...@nospamstuff.org> wrote in message
news:47e718d2$0$12592$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
Well, the problem is other cells need nutrients too. And the immune
system can't always identify wayward native cells. That is why people are
rarely cured of cancer (i.e. uncontrolled cell division)
I wish people who purport to have at least some knowledge would be careful
with posting erroneous statements.......
"People are rarely cured of cancer..."?
Over 95% of skin cancers are cured.
The commonest 20 other cancers in adults account for over 90% of all adult
cancers. The five year survival rate is 65% overall, and most of those
people are cured.
So people are OFTEN cured of cancer, not 'rarely"
Is it curing by reversing cancer cells to normal cells OR just killing
them? |
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| Dan |
| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:10 pm |
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Guest
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on 3/24/08 3:18 PM Steph said the following:
Quote: "Dan" <dannomano@nospamstuff.org> wrote in message
news:47e718d2$0$12592$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
Well, the problem is other cells need nutrients too. And the immune
system can't always identify wayward native cells. That is why people are
rarely cured of cancer (i.e. uncontrolled cell division)
I wish people who purport to have at least some knowledge would be careful
with posting erroneous statements.......
"People are rarely cured of cancer..."?
Over 95% of skin cancers are cured.
The commonest 20 other cancers in adults account for over 90% of all adult
cancers. The five year survival rate is 65% overall, and most of those
people are cured.
So people are OFTEN cured of cancer, not 'rarely"
I guess I should have said 'Metastatic Cancer' and 'cancer free for the
long term'. I wasn't thinking skin since that is so easy to detect and
treat. Internal organs are a different scenario, but point well taken.
Peace. |
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| Steph |
| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:23 am |
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Guest
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"Dan" <dannomano@nospamstuff.org> wrote in message
news:47e834fd$0$30574$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
Quote: on 3/24/08 3:18 PM Steph said the following:
"Dan" <dannomano@nospamstuff.org> wrote in message
news:47e718d2$0$12592$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
Well, the problem is other cells need nutrients too. And the immune
system can't always identify wayward native cells. That is why people
are rarely cured of cancer (i.e. uncontrolled cell division)
I wish people who purport to have at least some knowledge would be
careful with posting erroneous statements.......
"People are rarely cured of cancer..."?
Over 95% of skin cancers are cured.
The commonest 20 other cancers in adults account for over 90% of all
adult cancers. The five year survival rate is 65% overall, and most of
those people are cured.
So people are OFTEN cured of cancer, not 'rarely"
I guess I should have said 'Metastatic Cancer' and 'cancer free for the
long term'. I wasn't thinking skin since that is so easy to detect and
treat. Internal organs are a different scenario, but point well taken.
Peace.
Which is why skin cancers are left out of the stats. The 65% figure is for
the other adult cancers.
Metastatic cancer is almost always incurable, except in rare cancers like
testicular germ cell tumours. The fact is however, the 5 year survival rate
overall for the common cancers is at least as good as the five year survival
rate for many other diseases like myocardial infarction and COPD. |
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| Steph |
| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:25 am |
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Guest
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"Kumar" <lordshiva5753@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a5d0b30e-c304-4a3a-a3b5-aea8e1f46f96@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 25, 1:18 am, "Steph" <st...@vancouvers.island> wrote:
Quote: "Dan" <dannom...@nospamstuff.org> wrote in message
news:47e718d2$0$12592$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
Well, the problem is other cells need nutrients too. And the immune
system can't always identify wayward native cells. That is why people
are
rarely cured of cancer (i.e. uncontrolled cell division)
I wish people who purport to have at least some knowledge would be careful
with posting erroneous statements.......
"People are rarely cured of cancer..."?
Over 95% of skin cancers are cured.
The commonest 20 other cancers in adults account for over 90% of all adult
cancers. The five year survival rate is 65% overall, and most of those
people are cured.
So people are OFTEN cured of cancer, not 'rarely"
Is it curing by reversing cancer cells to normal cells OR just killing
them?
Almost always cure is achieved by killing the cancer cells while damaging
the healthy cells to a point less than killing them, and allowing repair and
recovery |
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| Kumar |
| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:35 am |
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Guest
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On Mar 25, 10:25 am, "Steph" <st...@vancouvers.island> wrote:
Quote: "Kumar" <lordshiva5...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a5d0b30e-c304-4a3a-a3b5-aea8e1f46f96@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 25, 1:18 am, "Steph" <st...@vancouvers.island> wrote:
"Dan" <dannom...@nospamstuff.org> wrote in message
news:47e718d2$0$12592$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
Well, the problem is other cells need nutrients too. And the immune
system can't always identify wayward native cells. That is why people
are
rarely cured of cancer (i.e. uncontrolled cell division)
I wish people who purport to have at least some knowledge would be careful
with posting erroneous statements.......
"People are rarely cured of cancer..."?
Over 95% of skin cancers are cured.
The commonest 20 other cancers in adults account for over 90% of all adult
cancers. The five year survival rate is 65% overall, and most of those
people are cured.
So people are OFTEN cured of cancer, not 'rarely"
Is it curing by reversing cancer cells to normal cells OR just killing
them?
Almost always cure is achieved by killing the cancer cells while damaging
the healthy cells to a point less than killing them, and allowing repair and
recovery- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Is it direct killing cancer cells by toxic doses and their removal OR
also reversing them to commit sucide alike normal cells? |
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| Dan |
| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:33 pm |
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Guest
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on 3/25/08 10:35 AM Kumar said the following:
Quote: On Mar 25, 10:25 am, "Steph" <st...@vancouvers.island> wrote:
"Kumar" <lordshiva5...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a5d0b30e-c304-4a3a-a3b5-aea8e1f46f96@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 25, 1:18 am, "Steph" <st...@vancouvers.island> wrote:
"Dan" <dannom...@nospamstuff.org> wrote in message
news:47e718d2$0$12592$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
Well, the problem is other cells need nutrients too. And the immune
system can't always identify wayward native cells. That is why people
are
rarely cured of cancer (i.e. uncontrolled cell division)
I wish people who purport to have at least some knowledge would be careful
with posting erroneous statements.......
"People are rarely cured of cancer..."?
Over 95% of skin cancers are cured.
The commonest 20 other cancers in adults account for over 90% of all adult
cancers. The five year survival rate is 65% overall, and most of those
people are cured.
So people are OFTEN cured of cancer, not 'rarely"
Is it curing by reversing cancer cells to normal cells OR just killing
them?
Almost always cure is achieved by killing the cancer cells while damaging
the healthy cells to a point less than killing them, and allowing repair and
recovery- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Is it direct killing cancer cells by toxic doses and their removal OR
also reversing them to commit sucide alike normal cells?
Are you talking about epigenetic therapy? If so, the latter. |
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| Kumar |
| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:23 pm |
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Guest
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On Mar 25, 10:33 pm, Dan <dannom...@nospamstuff.org> wrote:
Quote: on 3/25/08 10:35 AM Kumar said the following:
On Mar 25, 10:25 am, "Steph" <st...@vancouvers.island> wrote:
"Kumar" <lordshiva5...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a5d0b30e-c304-4a3a-a3b5-aea8e1f46f96@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 25, 1:18 am, "Steph" <st...@vancouvers.island> wrote:
"Dan" <dannom...@nospamstuff.org> wrote in message
news:47e718d2$0$12592$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
Well, the problem is other cells need nutrients too. And the immune
system can't always identify wayward native cells. That is why people
are
rarely cured of cancer (i.e. uncontrolled cell division)
I wish people who purport to have at least some knowledge would be careful
with posting erroneous statements.......
"People are rarely cured of cancer..."?
Over 95% of skin cancers are cured.
The commonest 20 other cancers in adults account for over 90% of all adult
cancers. The five year survival rate is 65% overall, and most of those
people are cured.
So people are OFTEN cured of cancer, not 'rarely"
Is it curing by reversing cancer cells to normal cells OR just killing
them?
Almost always cure is achieved by killing the cancer cells while damaging
the healthy cells to a point less than killing them, and allowing repair and
recovery- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Is it direct killing cancer cells by toxic doses and their removal OR
also reversing them to commit sucide alike normal cells?
Are you talking about epigenetic therapy? If so, the latter.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Have you looked up following link, indicating about possible immune
response?
http://www.cdc.gov/Ncidod/EID/vol5no3/weinberg.htm |
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