Alan Kellogg wrote:

Let me see if I have this straight. Earth has expanded in size, and thus
in mass. Back in the Jurassic animals grew larger because they didn't
weigh as much (less mass, less gravity). Yet the modern day savannah
bull elephant is known to grow as large as the typical Jurassic
apatosaurus ('bout 15 tons). How can this be?


Elephants don't know when to stop eating?

Sorry, my contribution is just crap but hey, as far as science is concerned,
it is just barely possible although highly unlikely. In retrospect, my
contribution is crap, so we'll leave it at that

"don findlay" <don@tower.net.au> wrote in message
news:3e73cd28-5c5d-40e0-b51d-0ef87458bb8a@b29g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
Don't you just love it?


"In the northwest Pacific Ocean, a sharp corner in the boundary
between the Pacific plate and the North American plate joins a
subduction zone running along the southern half of the Kamchatka
peninsula1 with a region of transcurrent motion along the western
Aleutian arc1,
===============
2. Here we present images of the seismic structure beneath the
Aleutian-Kamchatka junction and the surrounding region, indicating
that: the subducting Pacific lithosphere terminates at the Aleutian-
Kamchatka junction; no relict slab underlies the extinct northern
Kamchatka volcanic arc; and the upper mantle beneath northern
Kamchatka has unusually slow shear wavespeeds. From the tectonic and
volcanic evolution of Kamchatka over the past 10 Myr (refs 3, 4-5) we
infer that at least two episodes of catastrophic slab loss have
occurred.
===============
About 5 to 10 Myr ago, catastrophic slab loss shut down island-arc
volcanic activity north of the Aleutian-Kamchatka junction. A later
episode of slab loss, since about 2 Myr ago, seems to be related to
the activity of the world's most productive island-arc volcano,
Klyuchevskoy6. Removal of lithospheric mantle is commonly discussed in
the context of a continental collision, but our findings imply that
episodes of slab detachment and loss are also important agents in the
evolution of oceanic convergent margins.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v418/n6899/full/nature00973.html


Puhh! "Here we present images ..(showing) no relict slab underlies
the Kamchatka volcanic arc... from which we infer catastrophic slab
loss."

The simple explanation of course, in line with the Global Expansional
view of the Western Pacific is that there never *was* any slab.
http://users indigo.net.au/don/ee/rupenin.html

Classic Plate Tectonics - inventing figments just so they can be
dispatched with ...Ah-hah - "evidence" !

That's Science for you, ..Plate Tectonic style:- That there is none
is proof that there used to be some.


# We humans and other biologics crawl about on a relatively thin crust over
a molten mass,

where volcanoes act as safety valves, and earthquakes occur
as the crust moves relative to its flaky components,

We'd better hope that
this precarious existence is not unduly disturbed.

Let me see if I have this straight.

Earth has expanded in size, and thus
in mass.

Back in the Jurassic animals grew larger because they didn't
weigh as much (less mass, less gravity). Yet the modern day savannah
bull elephant is known to grow as large as the typical Jurassic
apatosaurus ('bout 15 tons). How can this be?

Let me see if I have this straight. Earth has expanded in size, and thus
in mass. Back in the Jurassic animals grew larger because they didn't
weigh as much (less mass, less gravity). Yet the modern day savannah
bull elephant is known to grow as large as the typical Jurassic
apatosaurus ('bout 15 tons). How can this be?

"don findlay" <don@tower.net.au> wrote in message
news:e3a07a93-4911-4c61-8742-13e6a0716d2d@64g2000hsw.googlegroups.com...


Don H wrote:

"don findlay" <don@tower.net.au> wrote in message

news:3e73cd28-5c5d-40e0-b51d-0ef87458bb8a@b29g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
Don't you just love it?


"In the northwest Pacific Ocean, a sharp corner in the boundary
between the Pacific plate and the North American plate joins a
subduction zone running along the southern half of the Kamchatka
peninsula1 with a region of transcurrent motion along the western
Aleutian arc1,
===============
2. Here we present images of the seismic structure beneath the
Aleutian-Kamchatka junction and the surrounding region, indicating
that: the subducting Pacific lithosphere terminates at the Aleutian-
Kamchatka junction; no relict slab underlies the extinct northern
Kamchatka volcanic arc; and the upper mantle beneath northern
Kamchatka has unusually slow shear wavespeeds. From the tectonic and
volcanic evolution of Kamchatka over the past 10 Myr (refs 3, 4-5) we
infer that at least two episodes of catastrophic slab loss have
occurred.
===============
About 5 to 10 Myr ago, catastrophic slab loss shut down island-arc
volcanic activity north of the Aleutian-Kamchatka junction. A later
episode of slab loss, since about 2 Myr ago, seems to be related to
the activity of the world's most productive island-arc volcano,
Klyuchevskoy6. Removal of lithospheric mantle is commonly discussed in
the context of a continental collision, but our findings imply that
episodes of slab detachment and loss are also important agents in the
evolution of oceanic convergent margins.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v418/n6899/full/nature00973.html


Puhh! "Here we present images ..(showing) no relict slab underlies
the Kamchatka volcanic arc... from which we infer catastrophic slab
loss."

The simple explanation of course, in line with the Global Expansional
view of the Western Pacific is that there never *was* any slab.
http://users indigo.net.au/don/ee/rupenin.html

Classic Plate Tectonics - inventing figments just so they can be
dispatched with ...Ah-hah - "evidence" !

That's Science for you, ..Plate Tectonic style:- That there is none
is proof that there used to be some.


# We humans and other biologics crawl about on a relatively thin crust
over
a molten mass,

No, the Earth's quite solid. (Don't know why people keep saying what
you do.) Every time an earthquakes goes off it says, "Hi
there, ...Me, ..solid, ...right through the upper mantle. And the
lower mantle as well." That lot is relatively thick, really.

where volcanoes act as safety valves, and earthquakes occur
as the crust moves relative to its flaky components,

Nice, ... aren't they?
http://users.indigo.net.au/don/re/memory.html

We'd better hope that
this precarious existence is not unduly disturbed.

Yup. Do you see those big mountains up there that used to be sea
floor? ..All that water-all-over. Allee gonee. We're lucky there
was somewhere for it to go to, don't you reckon? Now, ..had we
been living on Mars....

Hope. ..Moves mountains...

# What Nature alone may not accomplish, geosequestration, and nuclear waste
storage, might yet achieve. A rupture of the Earth's crust.
Already Nature has become Nhature, and may soon be NHature (too late
then)... The h,H is the human, Human factor - not insignificant in a 6.5
billion population, and high technology, world. We dig our own grave?

Don't you just love it?


"In the northwest Pacific Ocean, a sharp corner in the boundary
between the Pacific plate and the North American plate joins a
subduction zone running along the southern half of the Kamchatka
peninsula1 with a region of transcurrent motion along the western
Aleutian arc1,
===============
2. Here we present images of the seismic structure beneath the
Aleutian-Kamchatka junction and the surrounding region, indicating
that: the subducting Pacific lithosphere terminates at the Aleutian-
Kamchatka junction; no relict slab underlies the extinct northern
Kamchatka volcanic arc; and the upper mantle beneath northern
Kamchatka has unusually slow shear wavespeeds. From the tectonic and
volcanic evolution of Kamchatka over the past 10 Myr (refs 3, 4-5) we
infer that at least two episodes of catastrophic slab loss have
occurred.
===============
About 5 to 10 Myr ago, catastrophic slab loss shut down island-arc
volcanic activity north of the Aleutian-Kamchatka junction. A later
episode of slab loss, since about 2 Myr ago, seems to be related to
the activity of the world's most productive island-arc volcano,
Klyuchevskoy6. Removal of lithospheric mantle is commonly discussed in
the context of a continental collision, but our findings imply that
episodes of slab detachment and loss are also important agents in the
evolution of oceanic convergent margins.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v418/n6899/full/nature00973.html


Puhh! "Here we present images ..(showing) no relict slab underlies
the Kamchatka volcanic arc... from which we infer catastrophic slab
loss."

The simple explanation of course, in line with the Global Expansional
view of the Western Pacific is that there never *was* any slab.
http://users indigo.net.au/don/ee/rupenin.html

Classic Plate Tectonics - inventing figments just so they can be
dispatched with ...Ah-hah - "evidence" !

That's Science for you, ..Plate Tectonic style:- That there is none
is proof that there used to be some.

Don H wrote:

"don findlay" <don@tower.net.au> wrote in message

news:3e73cd28-5c5d-40e0-b51d-0ef87458bb8a@b29g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
Don't you just love it?


"In the northwest Pacific Ocean, a sharp corner in the boundary
between the Pacific plate and the North American plate joins a
subduction zone running along the southern half of the Kamchatka
peninsula1 with a region of transcurrent motion along the western
Aleutian arc1,
===============
2. Here we present images of the seismic structure beneath the
Aleutian-Kamchatka junction and the surrounding region, indicating
that: the subducting Pacific lithosphere terminates at the Aleutian-
Kamchatka junction; no relict slab underlies the extinct northern
Kamchatka volcanic arc; and the upper mantle beneath northern
Kamchatka has unusually slow shear wavespeeds. From the tectonic and
volcanic evolution of Kamchatka over the past 10 Myr (refs 3, 4-5) we
infer that at least two episodes of catastrophic slab loss have
occurred.
===============
About 5 to 10 Myr ago, catastrophic slab loss shut down island-arc
volcanic activity north of the Aleutian-Kamchatka junction. A later
episode of slab loss, since about 2 Myr ago, seems to be related to
the activity of the world's most productive island-arc volcano,
Klyuchevskoy6. Removal of lithospheric mantle is commonly discussed in
the context of a continental collision, but our findings imply that
episodes of slab detachment and loss are also important agents in the
evolution of oceanic convergent margins.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v418/n6899/full/nature00973.html


Puhh! "Here we present images ..(showing) no relict slab underlies
the Kamchatka volcanic arc... from which we infer catastrophic slab
loss."

The simple explanation of course, in line with the Global Expansional
view of the Western Pacific is that there never *was* any slab.
http://users indigo.net.au/don/ee/rupenin.html

Classic Plate Tectonics - inventing figments just so they can be
dispatched with ...Ah-hah - "evidence" !

That's Science for you, ..Plate Tectonic style:- That there is none
is proof that there used to be some.


# We humans and other biologics crawl about on a relatively thin crust
over
a molten mass,

No, the Earth's quite solid. (Don't know why people keep saying what
you do.) Every time an earthquakes goes off it says, "Hi
there, ...Me, ..solid, ...right through the upper mantle. And the
lower mantle as well." That lot is relatively thick, really.

where volcanoes act as safety valves, and earthquakes occur
as the crust moves relative to its flaky components,

Nice, ... aren't they?
http://users.indigo.net.au/don/re/memory.html

We'd better hope that
this precarious existence is not unduly disturbed.

Yup. Do you see those big mountains up there that used to be sea
floor? ..All that water-all-over. Allee gonee. We're lucky there
was somewhere for it to go to, don't you reckon? Now, ..had we
been living on Mars....

Hope. ..Moves mountains...

"don findlay" <don@tower.net.au> wrote in message
news:60582834-4037-480d-b86f-9cad0d9d472b@60g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...


Don H wrote:

"don findlay" <don@tower.net.au> wrote in message
news:e3a07a93-4911-4c61-8742-13e6a0716d2d@64g2000hsw.googlegroups.com...


Don H wrote:

"don findlay" <don@tower.net.au> wrote in message


news:3e73cd28-5c5d-40e0-b51d-0ef87458bb8a@b29g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
Don't you just love it?


"In the northwest Pacific Ocean, a sharp corner in the boundary
between the Pacific plate and the North American plate joins a
subduction zone running along the southern half of the Kamchatka
peninsula1 with a region of transcurrent motion along the western
Aleutian arc1,
===============
2. Here we present images of the seismic structure beneath the
Aleutian-Kamchatka junction and the surrounding region, indicating
that: the subducting Pacific lithosphere terminates at the
Aleutian-
Kamchatka junction; no relict slab underlies the extinct northern
Kamchatka volcanic arc; and the upper mantle beneath northern
Kamchatka has unusually slow shear wavespeeds. From the tectonic
and
volcanic evolution of Kamchatka over the past 10 Myr (refs 3, 4-5)
we
infer that at least two episodes of catastrophic slab loss have
occurred.
===============
About 5 to 10 Myr ago, catastrophic slab loss shut down island-arc
volcanic activity north of the Aleutian-Kamchatka junction. A
later
episode of slab loss, since about 2 Myr ago, seems to be related
to
the activity of the world's most productive island-arc volcano,
Klyuchevskoy6. Removal of lithospheric mantle is commonly
discussed in
the context of a continental collision, but our findings imply
that
episodes of slab detachment and loss are also important agents in
the
evolution of oceanic convergent margins.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v418/n6899/full/nature00973.html


Puhh! "Here we present images ..(showing) no relict slab
underlies
the Kamchatka volcanic arc... from which we infer catastrophic
slab
loss."

The simple explanation of course, in line with the Global
Expansional
view of the Western Pacific is that there never *was* any slab.
http://users indigo.net.au/don/ee/rupenin.html

Classic Plate Tectonics - inventing figments just so they can be
dispatched with ...Ah-hah - "evidence" !

That's Science for you, ..Plate Tectonic style:- That there is
none
is proof that there used to be some.


# We humans and other biologics crawl about on a relatively thin
crust
over
a molten mass,

No, the Earth's quite solid. (Don't know why people keep saying what
you do.) Every time an earthquakes goes off it says, "Hi
there, ...Me, ..solid, ...right through the upper mantle. And the
lower mantle as well." That lot is relatively thick, really.

where volcanoes act as safety valves, and earthquakes occur
as the crust moves relative to its flaky components,

Nice, ... aren't they?
http://users.indigo.net.au/don/re/memory.html

We'd better hope that
this precarious existence is not unduly disturbed.

Yup. Do you see those big mountains up there that used to be sea
floor? ..All that water-all-over. Allee gonee. We're lucky there
was somewhere for it to go to, don't you reckon? Now, ..had we
been living on Mars....

Hope. ..Moves mountains...

# What Nature alone may not accomplish, geosequestration, and nuclear
waste
storage, might yet achieve. A rupture of the Earth's crust.
Already Nature has become Nhature, and may soon be NHature (too late
then)... The h,H is the human, Human factor - not insignificant in a
6.5
billion population, and high technology, world. We dig our own grave?

You have to be careful not to overreact just because somebody tells
you to. We rely on our scientists, but scientists like everybody else
are only human. The theme of this Plate Tectonics business here is
that 'scientists', aided by the publicity machine of the likes of
Nature and other professional journals (which are a business), are
human like everybody else. The science is only a vehicle for their
primary concern, which is their career interest. Truth, as well as
being the first casualty of war, is a first sacrifice when it comes to
personal well-being. Do you think the wife would be pleased if our
wide-eyed ingenue truthful scientist were to say to her, "Sorry
darling, we'll have to call off our holiday this year. I have a paper
I want to submit for peer review. It's rather controversial and may
indirectly even get me sacked, but most certainly it will take a long
time to get past those silly buggers who don't know their elbow from
their arse. So I'll probably miss out too on the next round of grant
approvals.. We'll probably have to take the children out of school
next term too"

(It's always the subtext, ..never the text.)

Seas receeding, glaciers retreating, etc etc., Our fault.
Scientists making us feel guilty, .. making us fall on our collective
guilty sword - but not them. They make careers for themselves at our
expense.

Sure, it's getting a dirty place and we need to clean it up, .. But
understand what is behind all the hype. Magazines have their
predatory agenda too.


# I'd agree that most of us have a tendency to rationalise, often
unconsciously, so as to justify our instincts - especially that for
self-survival.
However, even the timid scientist can speak out, if occasion demands it.
If the facts dictate that global warming is occurring, and is reaching a
critical stage, then scientists, as a group, might deliberate if greater
blame might not be attached for silence, than uttering a warning.
As every trade unionist will tell you, there is safety in numbers. So,
scientists might say "Alright, I have told you the Inconvenient Truth, what
are you going to do - sack the lot of us"? Or, they might get an Al Gore to
present the case for them.
Religious bodies rationalise all the time, but, being financially
powerful, they get away with it. Indoctrination of the young is their
safeguard.
Scientists, being Backroom Boffins, and dependent on research grants, etc,
opt for silence, and Galileon mutterings of dissent.
So, Global Warming, or Tectonic Plates, are vested interests, to ensure
grants? Scientific claims can always be put to empirical test; ah, but we
need scientific expertise to do this. Maybe, but even scientists can get
caught out in the long run. Trouble is, with global warming, the long run
might be too late. Hence, we can only go by what the majority of scientists
claim, and what proof they offer.

Don H wrote:

"don findlay" <don@tower.net.au> wrote in message
news:e3a07a93-4911-4c61-8742-13e6a0716d2d@64g2000hsw.googlegroups.com...


Don H wrote:

"don findlay" <don@tower.net.au> wrote in message


news:3e73cd28-5c5d-40e0-b51d-0ef87458bb8a@b29g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
Don't you just love it?


"In the northwest Pacific Ocean, a sharp corner in the boundary
between the Pacific plate and the North American plate joins a
subduction zone running along the southern half of the Kamchatka
peninsula1 with a region of transcurrent motion along the western
Aleutian arc1,
===============
2. Here we present images of the seismic structure beneath the
Aleutian-Kamchatka junction and the surrounding region, indicating
that: the subducting Pacific lithosphere terminates at the
Aleutian-
Kamchatka junction; no relict slab underlies the extinct northern
Kamchatka volcanic arc; and the upper mantle beneath northern
Kamchatka has unusually slow shear wavespeeds. From the tectonic
and
volcanic evolution of Kamchatka over the past 10 Myr (refs 3, 4-5)
we
infer that at least two episodes of catastrophic slab loss have
occurred.
===============
About 5 to 10 Myr ago, catastrophic slab loss shut down island-arc
volcanic activity north of the Aleutian-Kamchatka junction. A
later
episode of slab loss, since about 2 Myr ago, seems to be related
to
the activity of the world's most productive island-arc volcano,
Klyuchevskoy6. Removal of lithospheric mantle is commonly
discussed in
the context of a continental collision, but our findings imply
that
episodes of slab detachment and loss are also important agents in
the
evolution of oceanic convergent margins.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v418/n6899/full/nature00973.html


Puhh! "Here we present images ..(showing) no relict slab
underlies
the Kamchatka volcanic arc... from which we infer catastrophic
slab
loss."

The simple explanation of course, in line with the Global
Expansional
view of the Western Pacific is that there never *was* any slab.
http://users indigo.net.au/don/ee/rupenin.html

Classic Plate Tectonics - inventing figments just so they can be
dispatched with ...Ah-hah - "evidence" !

That's Science for you, ..Plate Tectonic style:- That there is
none
is proof that there used to be some.


# We humans and other biologics crawl about on a relatively thin
crust
over
a molten mass,

No, the Earth's quite solid. (Don't know why people keep saying what
you do.) Every time an earthquakes goes off it says, "Hi
there, ...Me, ..solid, ...right through the upper mantle. And the
lower mantle as well." That lot is relatively thick, really.

where volcanoes act as safety valves, and earthquakes occur
as the crust moves relative to its flaky components,

Nice, ... aren't they?
http://users.indigo.net.au/don/re/memory.html

We'd better hope that
this precarious existence is not unduly disturbed.

Yup. Do you see those big mountains up there that used to be sea
floor? ..All that water-all-over. Allee gonee. We're lucky there
was somewhere for it to go to, don't you reckon? Now, ..had we
been living on Mars....

Hope. ..Moves mountains...

# What Nature alone may not accomplish, geosequestration, and nuclear
waste
storage, might yet achieve. A rupture of the Earth's crust.
Already Nature has become Nhature, and may soon be NHature (too late
then)... The h,H is the human, Human factor - not insignificant in a
6.5
billion population, and high technology, world. We dig our own grave?

You have to be careful not to overreact just because somebody tells
you to. We rely on our scientists, but scientists like everybody else
are only human. The theme of this Plate Tectonics business here is
that 'scientists', aided by the publicity machine of the likes of
Nature and other professional journals (which are a business), are
human like everybody else. The science is only a vehicle for their
primary concern, which is their career interest. Truth, as well as
being the first casualty of war, is a first sacrifice when it comes to
personal well-being. Do you think the wife would be pleased if our
wide-eyed ingenue truthful scientist were to say to her, "Sorry
darling, we'll have to call off our holiday this year. I have a paper
I want to submit for peer review. It's rather controversial and may
indirectly even get me sacked, but most certainly it will take a long
time to get past those silly buggers who don't know their elbow from
their arse. So I'll probably miss out too on the next round of grant
approvals.. We'll probably have to take the children out of school
next term too"

(It's always the subtext, ..never the text.)

Seas receeding, glaciers retreating, etc etc., Our fault.
Scientists making us feel guilty, .. making us fall on our collective
guilty sword - but not them. They make careers for themselves at our
expense.

Sure, it's getting a dirty place and we need to clean it up, .. But
understand what is behind all the hype. Magazines have their
predatory agenda too.

In article <mythusmage-AD3ECA.06002022022...@news.isp.giganews.com>, AlanKellogg wrote:
Let me see if I have this straight. Earth has expanded in size, and thus
in mass.

       You've been reading crackpots, of whom there are no shortage.
       No credible earth scientist believes that the Earth as expanded
noticeably in the last 4+billion years.

       BTW, I've trimmed the Astronomy and Physics groups ; I'm sure
they've got enough crackpots of their own to clean up after without adding
geology's crackpots to the list.

--
Aidan Karley, FGS,
Aberdeen, Scotland

Let me see if I have this straight. Earth has expanded in size, and thus
in mass. Back in the Jurassic animals grew larger because they didn't
weigh as much (less mass, less gravity). Yet the modern day savannah
bull elephant is known to grow as large as the typical Jurassic
apatosaurus ('bout 15 tons). How can this be?

--http://www.mythusmageopines.com/wp

If you didn't want my opinions you wouldn't be reading my posts.

Let me see if I have this straight. Earth has expanded in size, and thus
in mass.

You've been reading crackpots, of whom there are no shortage.