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Science Forum Index » Geology - Earthquakes Forum » Birth of undersea volcano causing some 1700 tremors in south
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| Belba Grubb |
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:14 am |
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This is interesting:
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-chile-earthquakes,0,2667957.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines
Chile's Emergency Bureau's Web site is http://www.onemi.cl/ (Spanish
language, but there are free online translators around that will
translate this page and any links, http://babelfish.altavista.com, for
instance) and they have updates about this at the top center. Most
recent one is from yesterday; expanding on the AP news story, they are
concerned about the salmon fisheries that are in the zone, and the
Chilean Navy is working with the companies to plan emergency
evacuation when and if needed. Also, the scientists are relocating
their equipment closer to the zone. They do expect stronger
earthquakes than those that have occurred so far, but apparently they
feel that because it is a relatively small amount of magma coming up,
the eventual eruption should not be powerful enough to threaten the
two closest communities, with a total population of some 35,000. I
wonder about that a bit -- wouldn't the size of the magma determine
the length of the eventual eruption rather than its intensity? The
intensity, explosiveness, and so forth would depend on the chemical
makeup of this particular batch of magma, and there's no way they can
tell that now, is there?
Barb
-------
Education is the period during which you are being instructed by
somebody you do not know, about something you do not want to know
-- G. K. Chesterton |
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| Weatherlawyer |
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:23 am |
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Belba Grubb wrote:
Quote: This is interesting:
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-chile-earthquakes,0,2667957.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines
...expanding on the AP news story, they are
concerned about the salmon fisheries that are in the zone, and the
Chilean Navy is working with the companies to plan emergency
evacuation when and if needed.
Also, the scientists are relocating their equipment closer to the zone.
(> They do expect stronger earthquakes.. apparently they)
feel that because it is a relatively small amount of magma coming up,
the eventual eruption should not be powerful enough to threaten the
two closest communities
I wonder about that a bit -- wouldn't the size of the magma determine
the length of the eventual eruption rather than its intensity?
The intensity, explosiveness, and so forth would depend on the chemical
makeup of this particular batch of magma, and there's no way they can
tell that now, is there?
There was a series of small shocks on the 27th in Puerto Rico, all
within one hour of each other:
2.5 2007/01/27 01:26 18 -66 Puerto Rico
2.7 2007/01/27 01:18 19 -65 Puerto Rico
2.8 2007/01/27 01:14 19 -65 Puerto Rico
2.5 2007/01/27 01:10 19 -65 Puerto Rico
2.6 2007/01/27 01:09 19 -65 Puerto Rico
2.7 2007/01/27 01:08 19 -65 Puerto Rico
2.8 2007/01/27 00:51 19 -65 Puerto Rico
2.5 2007/01/27 00:50 19 -65 Puerto Rico
2.8 2007/01/27 00:48 19 -65 Puerto Rico
3.5 2007/01/27 00:47 19 -65 Puerto Rico
2.5 2007/01/27 00:45 19 -65 Puerto Rico
2.9 2007/01/27 00:44 19 -65 Puerto Rico
Obviously no swarms would appear with small quakes in Chile on that
site (NEIC) but I couldn't find the 4+ Mag one either. You will note
that there were a couple of extra tropical storms about that date.
One of them (at least) will be found to have occurred within an
harmonic distance of a mutliple of some 35 degrees of longitude from
the region.
(From the regions involved may encompass all anomalies.)
The MetO will post data on these storms shortly before the end of
February. Their alacrity is matched only by their accuracy though.* So
be prepared for disappointment.
*Actually this concerns botched updates to their servers, with past
data scrambled or misplaced in the archives. Most such UK government
departments are covered by the Official Secrets Act; so very little
information about cockups is ever discussed. |
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| Belba Grubb |
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:47 am |
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On Jan 31, 7:23 am, "Weatherlawyer" <Weatherlaw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote: Belba Grubb wrote:
This is interesting:
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-chile-earthquakes...
...expanding on the AP news story, they are
concerned about the salmon fisheries that are in the zone, and the
Chilean Navy is working with the companies to plan emergency
evacuation when and if needed.
Also, the scientists are relocating their equipment closer to the zone.
(> They do expect stronger earthquakes.. apparently they)
feel that because it is a relatively small amount of magma coming up,
the eventual eruption should not be powerful enough to threaten the
two closest communities
I wonder about that a bit -- wouldn't the size of the magma determine
the length of the eventual eruption rather than its intensity?
The intensity, explosiveness, and so forth would depend on the chemical
makeup of this particular batch of magma, and there's no way they can
tell that now, is there?
There was a series of small shocks on the 27th in Puerto Rico, all
within one hour of each other:
2.5 2007/01/27 01:26 18 -66 Puerto Rico
2.7 2007/01/27 01:18 19 -65 Puerto Rico
2.8 2007/01/27 01:14 19 -65 Puerto Rico
2.5 2007/01/27 01:10 19 -65 Puerto Rico
2.6 2007/01/27 01:09 19 -65 Puerto Rico
2.7 2007/01/27 01:08 19 -65 Puerto Rico
2.8 2007/01/27 00:51 19 -65 Puerto Rico
2.5 2007/01/27 00:50 19 -65 Puerto Rico
2.8 2007/01/27 00:48 19 -65 Puerto Rico
3.5 2007/01/27 00:47 19 -65 Puerto Rico
2.5 2007/01/27 00:45 19 -65 Puerto Rico
2.9 2007/01/27 00:44 19 -65 Puerto Rico
Obviously no swarms would appear with small quakes in Chile on that
site (NEIC) but I couldn't find the 4+ Mag one either. You will note
that there were a couple of extra tropical storms about that date.
One of them (at least) will be found to have occurred within an
harmonic distance of a mutliple of some 35 degrees of longitude from
the region.
(From the regions involved may encompass all anomalies.)
The MetO will post data on these storms shortly before the end of
February. Their alacrity is matched only by their accuracy though.* So
be prepared for disappointment.
*Actually this concerns botched updates to their servers, with past
data scrambled or misplaced in the archives. Most such UK government
departments are covered by the Official Secrets Act; so very little
information about cockups is ever discussed.
Guess we were lucky the news about Chile and Puerto Rico being in the
same tectonic zone leaked out. Who would have suspected it.
The University of Chile may have its "sismógrafos" online somewhere,
but I couldn't find them with a quick search today. The largest of
the swarm did make the NEIC list: http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/bulletin/
neic_xxce.html We'll probably be seeing more of these at NEIC as the
magma gets closer to the surface. I wonder how strong those will be.
Meanwhile, in nearby Aysén and Chacabuco, people are scared:
http://www.diarioaysen.cl/noticias1.php?id=77 Good thing it's
midsummer out there, and they won't suffer from winter cold outdoors,
but that far south, it's never going to be really balmy, and
hypothermia on the rainier, more windy days is not out of the
question: http://www.wunderground.com/global/stations/85862.html
Tough situation. And when the magma does break through, for the
reasons I mentioned above, I wonder if the eruption will be as small
as they expect.
Barb
--------
There is many a rich stone laid up in the bowels of the earth, many a
fair pearl laid up in the bosom of the sea, that never was seen, nor
never shall be.
-- Joseph Hall, Contemplations. Book iv. The veil of Moses. |
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| Weatherlawyer |
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:39 pm |
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Belba Grubb wrote:
Quote:
The University of Chile may have its "sismógrafos" online somewhere,
but I couldn't find them with a quick search today. The largest of
the swarm did make the NEIC list: http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/bulletin/
neic_xxce.html We'll probably be seeing more of these at NEIC as the
magma gets closer to the surface. I wonder how strong those will be.
I just found a list of swarms for volcanoes. A problematic data sheet
as the world of volcanoes isn't closely covered the way that
earthquakes in general are:
http://kiska.giseis.alaska.edu/dbases/swarmcat/v_table.html
Obviously there is a lot more need close up inspection of individual
sites in watching vulcanicity whereas looking as seismic waves can be
done from any place on the planet so long as there is access to what
other sites are reading.
There is no alleviating justifiable fears. Keeping a crowd safe is
something that has its limits in such situations though. They tend to
drift away "as men steal in who are ashamed when they flee from
battle."
Quote: Tough situation. And when the magma does break through, for the
reasons I mentioned above, I wonder if the eruption will be as small
as they expect.
Isn't there some data somewhere that indicates that subterranean
events of all sorts seem to be linked to microbial activity? It is
rewriting the text books again apparently. I recall a TV programme
showing that the caverns in a desert somewhere have probably been
excavated by them as there is little chance it was caused by water
eroding it.
It's also more than likely true that the volcanic activity on earth is
liable to be caused by microbes. Just a wild guess of course. Why not
though? Suppose there are some particularly attracted to suphur or
it's ores.
It might even be a requirement for volcanoes as far as we know.
There is precious little actually known that isn't blind guesswork and
stuff based on a network of unproven theories.
What I have noticed is that with a negative NAO (that is, when there
is very little difference in the pressure of Lows and Highs in the
Atlantic) the incidence of volcanic activity increases earthwide.
Well that's about all the input I can give you. No doubt the trolls
and certified scum on here will do their best to dissuade you of it.
You can check my ideas with the stats yourself though from the
MetOffice site. It hosts the dates and relative strengths of all the
tropical cyclones from the mid nineteen nineties on.
Beware of some of the dates as there has been a bit of a scramble in
here:
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/tropicalcyclone/verification.html
There is one more thing. If the staff of life for volcanoes is
microbial activity, then the life of the "staff" is also extra
terrestrial. |
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| Jo Schaper |
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:46 pm |
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Weatherlawyer wrote:
Quote: Isn't there some data somewhere that indicates that subterranean
events of all sorts seem to be linked to microbial activity? It is
rewriting the text books again apparently. I recall a TV programme
showing that the caverns in a desert somewhere have probably been
excavated by them as there is little chance it was caused by water
eroding it.
No. Not microbial activity alone. Even microbes need water to live.
Quote:
It's also more than likely true that the volcanic activity on earth is
liable to be caused by microbes. Just a wild guess of course. Why not
though? Suppose there are some particularly attracted to sulphur or
it's ores.
That is a scary thought. Microbes able to survive lava baths. |
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| Belba Grubb |
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:33 pm |
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Found a general Web page (Spanish language) about Chilean volcanoes:
http://www.emol.com/especiales/volcanes/multimedia.htm (Just as an
aside, it confirms what I've heard about Chile being a *beautiful*
country!). There are links here to seismological sites.
Chile's seismological survey: http://ssn.dgf.uchile.cl/home/
Chilean page on the 1/23 Aysen quake (NEIC link to same quake in
earlier post): http://ssn.dgf.uchile.cl/cgi-bin/sensible.pl?oid=2036908&yr=2007&mo=1&da=23
They give it a 5.2 magnitude, but on the NEIC list it's a 5.0 (in the
AP report quoted earlier and I think also this morning, it was still a
4-point-something, so this is still being examined closely).
I have read, in various pages accessible through those two sites
above, that the Chilean seismometer system is on the Net, but it may
be a private-access network. I couldn't find any webicorders or
helicorders.
Barb
----------
"Neither modern science nor ancient religion believes in complete
free thought. Theology rebukes certain thoughts by calling
them blasphemous. Science rebukes certain thoughts by calling
them morbid."
-- G. K. Chesterton, "Orthodoxy" |
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| Weatherlawyer |
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:32 pm |
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Jo Schaper wrote:
Quote: Weatherlawyer wrote:
Isn't there some data somewhere that indicates that subterranean
events of all sorts seem to be linked to microbial activity? It is
rewriting the text books again apparently. I recall a TV programme
showing that the caverns in a desert somewhere have probably been
excavated by them as there is little chance it was caused by water
eroding it.
No. Not microbial activity alone. Even microbes need water to live.
It's also more than likely true that the volcanic activity on earth is
liable to be caused by microbes. Just a wild guess of course. Why not
though? Suppose there are some particularly attracted to sulphur or
it's ores.
That is a scary thought. Microbes able to survive lava baths.
Not quite.
Microbes (and not necessarily microbes too neither) able to CAUSE
lava. Of course it is one thing to set the process in motion it is
another thing entirely to be able to survive the cataclysm. But some
microbes do exist in very hot, very poisonous situations.
I am not saying that it is what I believe. Just that the impossible to
comprehend should not be ruled out.
Consider the sea sponge. Able to recompose itself after being put
through a blender, a couple of different species put in together can
sort themselves out.
At least that is what I heard was the correct answer to such a strange
set of laws of creation discussed on a quiz show recently.
Other life forms have survived blasting with X-rays and cooking in
microwave ovens. Or so I have been led to believe. I bet it took a lot
of convincing to get the backing for nuclear research in the early
'40's. The concept was so alien then but we take it for granted now
even though it is all still very much a secretive thing.
And how about en vitro babies? Frozen cells and all that? Cloned
sheep... our forefathers would call us liars. And if the bible is
correct there is nothing new under the sun.
Which is hardest to believe?
Are there simpler unbelievable examples in our lives that we can
examine?
That there are weapons of mass destruction in Iraq for instance?
Or that Saddam Hussein posed a real threat to world peace?
Who really is the kook and who are the more circumspect of us? |
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| Bob Officer |
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:01 am |
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On 31 Jan 2007 18:32:23 -0800, in sci.geo.earthquakes,
"Weatherlawyer" <Weatherlawyer@hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
Jo Schaper wrote:
Weatherlawyer wrote:
Isn't there some data somewhere that indicates that subterranean
events of all sorts seem to be linked to microbial activity? It is
rewriting the text books again apparently. I recall a TV programme
showing that the caverns in a desert somewhere have probably been
excavated by them as there is little chance it was caused by water
eroding it.
No. Not microbial activity alone. Even microbes need water to live.
It's also more than likely true that the volcanic activity on earth is
liable to be caused by microbes. Just a wild guess of course. Why not
though? Suppose there are some particularly attracted to sulphur or
it's ores.
That is a scary thought. Microbes able to survive lava baths.
Not quite.
Microbes (and not necessarily microbes too neither) able to CAUSE
lava. Of course it is one thing to set the process in motion it is
another thing entirely to be able to survive the cataclysm. But some
microbes do exist in very hot, very poisonous situations.
I am not saying that it is what I believe. Just that the impossible to
comprehend should not be ruled out.
Some things just don't have evidence to back them.
Quote: Consider the sea sponge. Able to recompose itself after being put
through a blender, a couple of different species put in together can
sort themselves out.
At least that is what I heard was the correct answer to such a strange
set of laws of creation discussed on a quiz show recently.
Hearsay or do you have any evidence to cite?
Quote: Other life forms have survived blasting with X-rays and cooking in
microwave ovens. Or so I have been led to believe.
Cite of evidence...
Quote: I bet it took a lot
of convincing to get the backing for nuclear research in the early
'40's.
Do you know when and where the 1st controlled nuclear reaction took
place?
If you did, then your statement would not any sense at all, would it.
Educate yourself Look up Chicago Pile-1 also referred to CP-1...Which
was built in the old Alonzo Stagg Field Stadium @ Univ of Chicago.
the date was 1942.
http://www.atomicarchive.com/History/firstpile/index.shtml
is a good place to start.
Quote: The concept was so alien then but we take it for granted now
even though it is all still very much a secretive thing.
Only to those without the ability to read.
<snip>
Quote: Who really is the kook and who are the more circumspect of us?
You are the kook, stilling thinking that your local weather is the
cause of equakes across the globe.
--
Ak'toh'di |
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| John Krempasky |
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:59 pm |
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"Bob Officer" <bobofficers@127.0.0.7> wrote in message
news:0od3s2thainpo8fmpevucaghq3bkifmup1@4ax.com...
Quote: You are the kook, stilling thinking that your local weather is the
cause of equakes across the globe.
That's the most entertaining part - that there's something uniquely special
ABOUT THE WEATHER WHERE HE HAPPENS TO BE that is connected with global
earthquakes.
Reminds me of the classic sci.geo.earthquakes kook from the late 90s that
was ABSOLUTELY convinced that there was a strong connection with earthquakes
all over the place and - I kid you not - whether there was dew on his lawn
in the morning. |
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| Bob Officer |
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:34 pm |
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On Thu, 1 Feb 2007 16:59:07 -0500, in sci.geo.earthquakes, "John
Krempasky" <johnk8spamless@comcast.net> wrote:
Quote:
"Bob Officer" <bobofficers@127.0.0.7> wrote in message
news:0od3s2thainpo8fmpevucaghq3bkifmup1@4ax.com...
You are the kook, stilling thinking that your local weather is the
cause of equakes across the globe.
That's the most entertaining part - that there's something uniquely special
ABOUT THE WEATHER WHERE HE HAPPENS TO BE that is connected with global
earthquakes.
Reminds me of the classic sci.geo.earthquakes kook from the late 90s that
was ABSOLUTELY convinced that there was a strong connection with earthquakes
all over the place and - I kid you not - whether there was dew on his lawn
in the morning.
Yes that guy was priceless, too. Too bad he never got the nomination
for a Weird Science award.
Then there was GFost, the guy that was a pseudo astrologer and all in
a dither about time when objects cross some imaginary and arbitrary
line. Remember him going on about the sun crossing and directly
overhead. it turned out he wasn't even using corrected local time for
solar noon...
and a few years back it was another goof that was trying to get money
to travel to the equator to measure the change in gravity as the sun
passed overhead.
Then there is Edvins August... <shudder> the man that couldn't even
read a simple map. Or understand simple things like how usenet is
spooled on his local server...
--
Ak'toh'di |
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| John Krempasky |
Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:04 am |
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Back during the last set of big swarms at Long Valley in the later 1990s,
who was it on the geo groups who was convinced the whole place was about to
blow and the USGS was involved in a massive coverup? |
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| Belba Grubb |
Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:33 am |
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In case anyone is keeping track, there was a Mercalli III felt in the
area today, and Mercalli grades IV and V on, I think, the 30th. ONEMI
reported the Mercalli results rather than magnitudes.
And I still wonder, what has the most effect in this particular area
and situation, on how strong the eruption will be: the amount of
available magma or its chemical make-up.
Barb
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" Espero que el Volcán Osorno erupte.
Quiero verlo después,
ver la nieve derretirse.
A 2660 metros, es demasiado alto."
-- Zgot Pen, from "En el bus hacia Ensenada" at http://www.lechantier.com/zkotpen/versos.htm |
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| Bob Officer |
Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:35 am |
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On Fri, 2 Feb 2007 00:04:11 -0500, in sci.geo.earthquakes, "John
Krempasky" <johnk8spamless@comcast.net> wrote:
Quote: Back during the last set of big swarms at Long Valley in the later 1990s,
who was it on the geo groups who was convinced the whole place was about to
blow and the USGS was involved in a massive coverup?
There was a few... but none jump to mind quickly.
--
Ak'toh'di |
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| Bob Officer |
Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:43 am |
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On 1 Feb 2007 21:33:45 -0800, in sci.geo.earthquakes, "Belba Grubb"
<trungsisterfan@yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote: In case anyone is keeping track, there was a Mercalli III felt in the
area today, and Mercalli grades IV and V on, I think, the 30th. ONEMI
reported the Mercalli results rather than magnitudes.
And I still wonder, what has the most effect in this particular area
and situation, on how strong the eruption will be: the amount of
available magma or its chemical make-up.
Any idea what sort of rock the magma is pushing through? Passing
through limestone might make the lava more fluid or explosive. Mt
Etna once had this effect IIRC, a large amount of limestone was eaten
by the magma, the result was explosive and more fluid lava, than
prior to the ingestion of the limestone.
--
Ak'toh'di |
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| Belba Grubb |
Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:18 am |
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On Feb 2, 1:43 am, Bob Officer <boboffic...@127.0.0.7> wrote:
Quote: Any idea what sort of rock the magma is pushing through? Passing
through limestone might make the lava more fluid or explosive. Mt
Etna once had this effect IIRC, a large amount of limestone was eaten
by the magma, the result was explosive and more fluid lava, than
prior to the ingestion of the limestone.
Perhaps there are geologic maps of seismic zone XI online somewhere,
but I wonder if they would be helpful regarding what's it's like 6
miles down. It's on the leading edge of a continental plate (I think;
haven't thought of this in years -- at any rate, a continent is near
the edge of the plate). How that region compares to the crust in the
region of Mt. Etna, I couldn't say. Most likely, though, there is
plenty of water and silica in any magma collection formed in the Aysen/
Capabuco area, no?
And we don't know the size of the magma that's rising -- perhaps it's
very, very small. Still...I'm not sure which can have more effect on
the inevitable eruption in this lovely tourist and commercial fishing
area here, chemistry or quantity.
Barb
----------
"If the mountain will not come to Mohammed, Mohammed must go to the
mountain."
-- Old saying that can probably result in a fatwa being issued against
the user these days ;-)
"If the mountain comes to you, run away: it's probably a landslide."
-- Portuguese and/or Brazilian proverb posted at Geoblogia in 2003
(http://geoblogia.blogspot.com/2003_11_01_archive.html) |
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