The term nuclear-resonance is used by Pound-Snider
to describe a Mossbauer shift with altitude.

This one is a little obvious after some thought, but I haven't heard it mentioned before.

The frequency of light is like a clock in itself - if the frequency is lower then the clock at the source is slower as measured by an observer who also measures that redshift. If the redshifted electromagnetic radiation was a radio carrier wave then the frequency the observer must tune to is further down the dial, as expected, but the sounds transmitted via that carrier wave will also appear to be slowed down, like an audio tape running at the wrong speed.

This is true regardless of the cause of redshift - source moving away from observer, source near a gravitating body, or source at a very great distance (Hubble shift).

The Hubble redshift observed on Earth must also be accompanied by time dilation. If the frequency of light received is half, for instance, then the clock at the emitting end of that electromagnetic transmission is running at half the pace as the clock at the receiving end.

I assume that this time dilation is taken into consideration when observing pulsed transmission of the rotation of galaxies (pulses will be measured as slower than the actual rate, galaxies will appear to rotate slower then than actually do etc.)

Anyone know more on this?

--
Kind Regards
Robert Karl Stonjek

The frequency of light is like a clock in itself - if the frequency is
lower then the clock at the source is slower as measured by an observer
who also measures that redshift. [...]
This is true regardless of the cause of redshift

On Feb 28, 5:55 am, bz <bz+...@ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu> wrote:
"Sue..." <suzysewns...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
news:1172642156.376982.237460 @k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

The term nuclear-resonance is used by Pound-Snider
to describe a Mossbauer shift with altitude.

Are you sure that is how they used the term??

It is more likely that nuclear-resonance is used to describe the
Mossbauer effect itself, since the Mossbauer effect IS a nuclear
resonance effect.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/nuclear/mossfe.html

"Effect of Gravity on Gamma Radiation"
http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PR/v140/i3B/pB788_1

Effect of Gravity on Nuclear Resonance
R. V. Pound and J. L. Snider
Lyman Laboratory of Physics, Harvard University,
Cambridge, Massachusetts
Received 24 September 1964
http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v13/i18/p539_1

" The classical phenomenon of the redshift of light in a
static gravitational potential, usually called the gravitational
redshift, is described in the literature essentially in two ways:
On the one hand, the phenomenon is explained through the
behavior of clocks which run faster the higher they are
located in the potential, whereas the energy and frequency
of the propagating photon do not change with height. The light
thus appears to be redshifted relative to the frequency of the
clock. On the other hand, the phenomenon is alternatively
discussed (even in some authoritative texts) in terms of an
energy loss of a photon as it overcomes the gravitational
attraction of the massive body. This second approach
operates with notions such as the "gravitational mass" or
the "potential energy" of a photon and we assert that it is
misleading. We do not claim to present any original ideas
or to give a comprehensive review of the subject, our goal
being essentially a pedagogical one.
The quote above, comes from your reference, below.
http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/9907017
On the Interpretation of the Redshift in a Static Gravitational Field

IOW the bellhop can't have two dollars no matter who
tells you he does.

Robert Karl Stonjek wrote:
The frequency of light is like a clock in itself - if the frequency is
lower then the clock at the source is slower as measured by an observer
who also measures that redshift. [...]
This is true regardless of the cause of redshift

Not true. Doppler shift is a different relationship than "time
dilation". And you completely ignore the possibility that an observer
can measure a BLUEshift....

A clock is a clock; light is not a clock.


Tom Roberts

On Feb 28, 8:14 am, bz <bz+...@ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu> wrote:
"Sue..." <suzysewns...@yahoo.com.au> wrote
innews:1172664755.521880.124120@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com:





On Feb 28, 5:55 am, bz <bz+...@ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu> wrote:
"Sue..." <suzysewns...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
news:1172642156.376982.237460 @k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

The term nuclear-resonance is used by Pound-Snider
to describe a Mossbauer shift with altitude.

Are you sure that is how they used the term??

It is more likely that nuclear-resonance is used to describe the
Mossbauer effect itself, since the Mossbauer effect IS a nuclear
resonance effect.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/nuclear/mossfe.html

"Effect of Gravity on Gamma Radiation"
http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PR/v140/i3B/pB788_1

Effect of Gravity on Nuclear Resonance
R. V. Pound and J. L. Snider
Lyman Laboratory of Physics, Harvard University,
Cambridge, Massachusetts
Received 24 September 1964
http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v13/i18/p539_1

" The classical phenomenon of the redshift of light in a
static gravitational potential, usually called the gravitational
redshift, is described in the literature essentially in two ways:
On the one hand, the phenomenon is explained through the
behavior of clocks which run faster the higher they are
located in the potential, whereas the energy and frequency
of the propagating photon do not change with height. The light
thus appears to be redshifted relative to the frequency of the
clock. On the other hand, the phenomenon is alternatively
discussed (even in some authoritative texts) in terms of an
energy loss of a photon as it overcomes the gravitational
attraction of the massive body. This second approach
operates with notions such as the "gravitational mass" or
the "potential energy" of a photon and we assert that it is
misleading. We do not claim to present any original ideas
or to give a comprehensive review of the subject, our goal
being essentially a pedagogical one.

The quote above, comes from your reference,
below.>http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/9907017

On the Interpretation of the Redshift in a Static Gravitational Field
Authors: L.B. Okun (ITEP, Moscow), K.G. Selivanov (ITEP, Moscow), V.L.
Telegdi (EP Division, CERN)

I see NOTHING there suggesting that "The term nuclear-resonance is
used by Pound-Snider to describe a Mossbauer shift with altitude."

How many "F"s are there in Nuke-U-Lar?

The term nuclear-resonance is used by Pound-Snider
to describe a Mossbauer shift with altitude.

Are you sure that is how they used the term??

It is more likely that nuclear-resonance is used to describe the
Mossbauer effect itself, since the Mossbauer effect IS a nuclear
resonance effect.

"Effect of Gravity on Nuclear Resonance"
R. V. Pound and J. L. Snider
Lyman Laboratory of Physics,
Harvard University, Cambridge,
Massachusetts
Received 24 September 1964
http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v13/i18/p539_1


Okun et al ALSO seem to discount "gravitational mass" or "potential
energy" as an explanation for the shift, saying "we assert that it is
misleading."

I am surprised that you cited them because I thought that was your
horse. I thought you were against the 'clock speed' explanation for
the red shift that they seem to favor.

The "falling photon" is what is absurd. Slower motion in the
surface clock is completly consistant with inertial behavior.

Aparently the absurdity wasn't generally recognized
untill a few GPS SVs demonstrated consistancy in the
launch presets. As Okun explains, the acceptance of
the absurdity was wide-spread in academia:
"even in some authoritative texts"

Sue...

Robert Karl Stonjek wrote:
The frequency of light is like a clock in itself - if the frequency is
lower then the clock at the source is slower as measured by an observer
who also measures that redshift. [...]
This is true regardless of the cause of redshift

Not true. Doppler shift is a different relationship than "time
dilation". And you completely ignore the possibility that an observer
can measure a BLUEshift....

A clock is a clock; light is not a clock.


Tom Roberts

The term nuclear-resonance is used by Pound-Snider
to describe a Mossbauer shift with altitude.

"Sue..." <suzysewns...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in news:1172642156.376982.237460
@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

The term nuclear-resonance is used by Pound-Snider
to describe a Mossbauer shift with altitude.

Are you sure that is how they used the term??

It is more likely that nuclear-resonance is used to describe the Mossbauer
effect itself, since the Mossbauer effect IS a nuclear resonance effect.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/nuclear/mossfe.html

"Effect of Gravity on Gamma Radiation"
http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PR/v140/i3B/pB788_1

--
bz

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

bz+...@ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap

You said:

The term nuclear-resonance is used by Pound-Snider
to describe a Mossbauer shift with altitude.

Are you sure that is how they used the term??

It is more likely that nuclear-resonance is used to describe the
Mossbauer effect itself, since the Mossbauer effect IS a nuclear
resonance effect.

Show me where they say that 'nuclear-resonance' is the term that we use
when we are speaking of 'a Mossbauer shift with altitude.'
FOR THE THIRD TIME


---------READ THE TITLE------

YA BLIIND !!!

On Feb 28, 5:55 am, bz <bz+...@ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu> wrote:
"Sue..." <suzysewns...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
news:1172642156.376982.237460
@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

The term nuclear-resonance is used by Pound-Snider
to describe a Mossbauer shift with altitude.

Are you sure that is how they used the term??

It is more likely that nuclear-resonance is used to describe the
Mossbauer
effect itself, since the Mossbauer effect IS a nuclear resonance effect.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/nuclear/mossfe.html

"Effect of Gravity on Gamma Radiation"
http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PR/v140/i3B/pB788_1

Effect of Gravity on Nuclear Resonance
R. V. Pound and J. L. Snider
Lyman Laboratory of Physics, Harvard University,
Cambridge, Massachusetts
Received 24 September 1964
http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v13/i18/p539_1

" The classical phenomenon of the redshift of light in a
static gravitational potential, usually called the gravitational
redshift, is described in the literature essentially in two ways:
On the one hand, the phenomenon is explained through the
behavior of clocks which run faster the higher they are
located in the potential, whereas the energy and frequency
of the propagating photon do not change with height. The light
thus appears to be redshifted relative to the frequency of the
clock. On the other hand, the phenomenon is alternatively
discussed (even in some authoritative texts) in terms of an
energy loss of a photon as it overcomes the gravitational
attraction of the massive body. This second approach
operates with notions such as the "gravitational mass" or
the "potential energy" of a photon and we assert that it is
misleading. We do not claim to present any original ideas
or to give a comprehensive review of the subject, our goal
being essentially a pedagogical one.
http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/9907017

IOW the bellhop can't have two dollars no matter who
tells you he does.

Sue...


--
bz

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is
an
infinite set.

bz+...@ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap

I don't think using the term 'Time Dilation' is confusing too many people -
we mean that interval between the clicks of a clock dilate at the source of
red shift as measured by the observer whom also measures the red shift.

--
Kind Regards
Robert Karl Stonjek

On Feb 28, 1:13 pm, bz <bz+...@ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu> wrote:
"Sue..." <suzysewns...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
news:1172680778.749594.307340 @t69g2000cwt.googlegroups.com:







You said:

The term nuclear-resonance is used by Pound-Snider
to describe a Mossbauer shift with altitude.

Are you sure that is how they used the term??

It is more likely that nuclear-resonance is used to describe
the Mossbauer effect itself, since the Mossbauer effect IS a
nuclear resonance effect.

Show me where they say that 'nuclear-resonance' is the term that we
use when we are speaking of 'a Mossbauer shift with altitude.'
FOR THE THIRD TIME

---------READ THE TITLE------

YA BLIIND !!!

I read the title. It does NOT say that

'nuclear-resonance' = 'a Mossbauer shift with altitude'

where '=' stands for 'is the term for'

The title is "Effect of Gravity on Nuclear Resonance"

It says NOTHING about nuclear resonance being a term for "a Mossbauer
shift with altitude"

The paper says nothing about nuclear resonance being a term for "a
Mossbauer shift with altitude"

If you had said "nuclear-resonance" is a term for the "Mossbauer
effect" you would have been correct.

Do you now see why what you did say made no sense?

It is generally known that the force of the earth's gravity
diminishes as you move up and away from earth's surface.
Most understand that to be "altitude"

The term nuclear-resonance is used by Pound-Snider
to describe a Mossbauer shift with altitude.
Is flatly and completely wrong!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law

Forgive me for assuming too much.

Sue...





--
bz

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is
an infinite set.

bz+...@ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -