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Immortalist
Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:32 pm
Guest
Ethics is not the same as feelings.
Feelings provide important
information for our ethical
choices.

Ethics is not religion.
Many people are not religious,
but ethics applies to everyone.

Ethics is not following the law.
A good system of law does incorporate
many ethical standards, but law can
deviate from what is ethical.

Ethics is not following culturally
accepted norms. Some cultures are
quite ethical, but others become
corrupt -or blind to certain
ethical concerns.

Ethics is not science. Social and natural
science can provide important data to
help us make better ethical choices.

----------------------------------------------------
Why Identifying Ethical Standards is Hard
----------------------------------------------------

There are two fundamental problems in identifying the ethical standards
we are to follow:

1. On what do we base our ethical
standards?

2. How do those standards get applied
to specific situations we face?

If our ethics are not based on feelings, religion, law, accepted social
practice, or science, what are they based on? Many philosophers and
ethicists have helped us answer this critical question. They have
suggested at least five different sources of ethical standards we
should use.

-------------------------------------------
Five Sources of Ethical Standards
-------------------------------------------

1. The Utilitarian Approach: the ethical action is the one that
provides the most good or does the least harm, or, to put it another
way, produces the greatest balance of good over harm.

2. The Rights Approach: the ethical action is the one that best
protects and respects the moral rights of those affected.

3. The Fairness or Justice Approach: all equals should be treated
equally ...ethical actions treat all human beings equally-or if
unequally, then fairly based on some standard that is defensible.

4. The Common Good Approach: life in community is a good in itself and
our actions should contribute to that life ...the interlocking
relationships of society are the basis of ethical reasoning and that
respect and compassion for all others-especially the vulnerable-are
requirements of such reasoning.

5. The Virtue Approach: ethical actions ought to be consistent with
certain ideal virtues that provide for the full development of our
humanity. These virtues are dispositions and habits that enable us to
act according to the highest potential of our character and on behalf
of values like truth and beauty. Honesty, courage, compassion,
generosity, tolerance, love, fidelity, integrity, fairness,
self-control, and prudence are all examples of virtues.

-------------------------------------------
Putting the Approaches Together
-------------------------------------------

Each of the approaches helps us determine what standards of behavior
can be considered ethical. There are still problems to be solved,
however.

The first problem is that we may not agree on the content of some of
these specific approaches. We may not all agree to the same set of
human and civil rights.

We may not agree on what constitutes the common good. We may not even
agree on what is a good and what is a harm.

The second problem is that the different approaches may not all answer
the question "What is ethical?" in the same way. Nonetheless, each
approach gives us important information with which to determine what is
ethical in a particular circumstance. And much more often than not, the
different approaches do lead to similar answers.

----------------------------------------------------
A Framework for Ethical Decision Making
----------------------------------------------------

Recognize an Ethical Issue

1. Is there something wrong personally, interpersonally, or socially?
Could the conflict, the situation, or the decision be damaging to
people or to the community?

2. Does the issue go beyond legal or institutional concerns? What does
it do to people, who have dignity, rights, and hopes for a better life
together?

Get the Facts

3. What are the relevant facts of the case? What facts are unknown?

4. What individuals and groups have an important stake in the outcome?
Do some have a greater stake because they have a special need or
because we have special obligations to them?

5. What are the options for acting? Have all the relevant persons and
groups been consulted? If you showed your list of options to someone
you respect, what would that person say?

-------------------------------------------------
Evaluate Alternative Actions From
Various Ethical Perspectives
-------------------------------------------------

6. Which option will produce the most good and do the least harm?

Utilitarian Approach: The ethical action is the one that will produce
the greatest balance of benefits over harms.

7. Even if not everyone gets all they want, will everyone's rights and
dignity still be respected?

Rights Approach: The ethical action is the one that most dutifully
respects the rights of all affected.

8. Which option is fair to all stakeholders?

Fairness or Justice Approach: The ethical action is the one that treats
people equally, or if unequally, that treats people proportionately and
fairly.

9. Which option would help all participate more fully in the life we
share as a family, community, society?

Common Good Approach: The ethical action is the one that contributes
most to the achievement of a quality common life together.

10. Would you want to become the sort of person who acts this way
(e.g., a person of courage or compassion)?

Virtue Approach: The ethical action is the one that embodies the habits
and values of humans at their best.

----------------------------------------
Make a Decision and Test It
----------------------------------------

11. Considering all these perspectives, which of the options is the
right or best thing to do?

12. If you told someone you respect why you chose this option, what
would that person say? If you had to explain your decision on
television, would you be comfortable doing so?

Act, Then Reflect on the Decision Later

13. Implement your decision. How did it turn out for all concerned? If
you had it to do over again, what would you do differently?

http://www.scu.edu/ethics/practicing/decision/framework.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chapter 6 - The Problem of Justifying an Ethical Standard
- - - http://www.ditext.com/cornman/corn6.html - - -
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

A) Evaluating Actions versus Evaluating People

B) Method of Critically Evaluating Ethical Theories

C) Theological Ethics

1) Objection: We Must Justify Religious
Claims by Ethical Claims

D) Ethical Relativism

1) Action Relativism versus
Standard Relativism

2) Definition of Ethical Relativism

3) The Argument from Differing
Ethical Judgments

4) The Argument from Different
Ethical Standards

5) Ethical Relativism Defended:
A Modified Argument

E) Ethical Nihilism

1) The Argument from Different
Ethical Standards

2) The Argument from the Lack
of Justification

F) The "No-Standard" Theory

1) The Argument from Exceptions

2) Objection to the No-Standard Theory:
Not Every Ethical Standard
Has Exceptions

3) A Second Objection to the No-Standard
Theory: Nonmoral Agreement but
Moral Disagreement

G) Ethical Skepticism

H) Ethical Egoism

I) Egoistic Hedonism

1) The Argument from
Psychological Egoism

2) Objection to Psychological Egoism:
People Sometimes Act Benevolently

3) Reply: People Always Act Out
of Self-Love

4) Final Objection: People Do Not
Always Act Out of Self-Love

5) The Argument from Good Reasons

6) Objection: Desiring To Do Something
Does Not Justify Doing It

7) Rejection of Egoistic Hedonism:
It Prescribes Morally Repugnant Acts

J) Nonhedonistic Ethical Egoism

1) Objection to Ethical Egoism: It
Prescribes Morally Repugnant Acts

K) Conclusion About Ethical Egoism:
It Should Be Rejected

L) Utilitarianism: Bentham's Version

1) The Principle of Utility

2) Arguments for the Principle of Utility

3) Direct Proofs for the Principle of
Utility: Deriving 'Ought' from 'Is'

- Hume's Objection: No 'Ought'
Is Deducible from 'Is'

- A Further Objection: Naturalistic
(Definist) Fallacy

4) Bentham's Indirect Proof of
the Principle of Utility

- Objection to Bentham's Proof: It
Does Not Disprove All Opposing Views

- The Hedonic Calculus

- An Objection to Bentham's
Principle: Sadistic Pleasures

M) Utilitarianism: Mill's Version

1) Quality versus Quantity of Pleasure

N) An Objection to Utilitarianism:
Special Duties

O) Another Objection to Utilitarianism:
The Problem of Justice

P) Deontological Ethics: Kant's Theory

1) The Highest Good: A Good Will

2) The Moral Law and the
Categorical Imperative

3) The First Formulation of
the Categorical Imperative

- Objection to First Formulation:
Which Maxims to Universalize?

- Another Objection: Cannot
Derive Specific Duties

4) The Second Formulation of
the Categorical Imperative

- An Objection to Kant's Theory:
It Is Not Applicable in All Situations

- A Second Objection: Absolute
versus Prima Facie Duties

- A Third Objection: Kant's Theory
Cannot Resolve Conflicts of Duty

Q) Rule Utilitarianism

1) Acts, Laws, Judges, and Legislators

R) Six Requirements for a Satisfactory
Ethical Standard and an Examination
of Rule Utilitarianism

1) Objection to Rule Utilitarianism:
No Guarantee of Justice

S) A Proposal for a Satisfactory Standard:
A Utilitarian Kantian Principle

T) Conclusion

U) Exercises

- Relativism, Nihilism,
Skepticism, and Egoism

- 'Ought' and 'Is'

- The Definist Fallacy

- Utilitarianism

- Kantianism

- The Utilitarian Kantian Standard

Complete Chapter Here;
http://www.ditext.com/cornman/corn6.html

Quote:
From the Book;

Philosophical Problems and Arguments: An Introduction
by James W. Cornman, Keith Lehrer, George Sotiros Pappas
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0872201244/
http://hume.ucdavis.edu/phi102/lecmenu.htm
jer0en
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:05 am
Guest
Immortalist wrote:

Quote:
If our ethics are not based on feelings, religion, law, accepted
social practice, or science, what are they based on?

I don't remember having done an ethical thing in my life if I didn't expect
either punishment or reward, in that following order.
So there's your answer. Either punishment or reward.

The field of ethics seems to be particularly relevant to the people in the
very specialised circumstance of being rewarded (paid) IN ADVANCE to be
ethical, usually even in a particular flavour. Like priests, politicians,
diplomats, judges, short everyone in public offices, and the ombudsman. It
seems to be rather impracticle if not hypocritical to pose ethics as
universal laws that would go for other people in other circumstances, let
alone anyone in any circumstance. They are the professional assets of peope
who are to make decisions in (semi) public cases, but no rules that govern
general philosophy, as far as I can see.

It would be interesting enough though to describe the different flavours of
ethics expected from priests, ombudsmen, diplomats, judges, resp., and how
these may contribute to the (im)balances in a particular society. Since
their offices are more accurately described as those of SPOKESMEN of
particular interest groups rather than the "universally" independent
councellors their ethical philosophies pretend them to be. Those just tell
us that they would be willing to expand their adminitrative powers
indefinitely. That would be within the scope of general philosophy, because
it would rid us of a universal lie.

In plain language, you come before a particular court, you get judged by a
particular flavour of ethics. If you were allowed to defend yourself, it
would be useful to be familiar with the particulars of the ethics. But not
outside of the court.

This would definitively settle the undying question if "you should always
have lemon tea" is, in fact, an ethical suggestion. Because, if some kind of
punishment were involved, it would be indeed.

You could even, quite redundantly, add it: You should always have lemon tea.
That was an ethical suggestion.
jer0en
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:46 pm
Guest
"Immortalist" <reanimater_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1169591535.738554.317270@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
Ethics is not the same as feelings.
Feelings provide important
information for our ethical
choices.

Ethics is not religion.
Many people are not religious,
but ethics applies to everyone.

Ethics is not following the law.
A good system of law does incorporate
many ethical standards, but law can
deviate from what is ethical.

Ethics is not following culturally
accepted norms. Some cultures are
quite ethical, but others become
corrupt -or blind to certain
ethical concerns.

Ethics is not science. Social and natural
science can provide important data to
help us make better ethical choices.

----------------------------------------------------
Why Identifying Ethical Standards is Hard
----------------------------------------------------

There are two fundamental problems in identifying the ethical standards
we are to follow:

1. On what do we base our ethical
standards?

2. How do those standards get applied
to specific situations we face?

If our ethics are not based on feelings, religion, law, accepted social
practice, or science, what are they based on? Many philosophers and
ethicists have helped us answer this critical question. They have
suggested at least five different sources of ethical standards we
should use.

-------------------------------------------
Five Sources of Ethical Standards
-------------------------------------------

1. The Utilitarian Approach: the ethical action is the one that
provides the most good or does the least harm, or, to put it another
way, produces the greatest balance of good over harm.

2. The Rights Approach: the ethical action is the one that best
protects and respects the moral rights of those affected.

3. The Fairness or Justice Approach: all equals should be treated
equally ...ethical actions treat all human beings equally-or if
unequally, then fairly based on some standard that is defensible.

4. The Common Good Approach: life in community is a good in itself and
our actions should contribute to that life ...the interlocking
relationships of society are the basis of ethical reasoning and that
respect and compassion for all others-especially the vulnerable-are
requirements of such reasoning.

5. The Virtue Approach: ethical actions ought to be consistent with
certain ideal virtues that provide for the full development of our
humanity. These virtues are dispositions and habits that enable us to
act according to the highest potential of our character and on behalf
of values like truth and beauty. Honesty, courage, compassion,
generosity, tolerance, love, fidelity, integrity, fairness,
self-control, and prudence are all examples of virtues.

-------------------------------------------
Putting the Approaches Together
-------------------------------------------

Each of the approaches helps us determine what standards of behavior
can be considered ethical. There are still problems to be solved,
however.

The first problem is that we may not agree on the content of some of
these specific approaches. We may not all agree to the same set of
human and civil rights.

We may not agree on what constitutes the common good. We may not even
agree on what is a good and what is a harm.

The second problem is that the different approaches may not all answer
the question "What is ethical?" in the same way. Nonetheless, each
approach gives us important information with which to determine what is
ethical in a particular circumstance. And much more often than not, the
different approaches do lead to similar answers.

----------------------------------------------------
A Framework for Ethical Decision Making
----------------------------------------------------

Recognize an Ethical Issue

1. Is there something wrong personally, interpersonally, or socially?
Could the conflict, the situation, or the decision be damaging to
people or to the community?

2. Does the issue go beyond legal or institutional concerns? What does
it do to people, who have dignity, rights, and hopes for a better life
together?

Get the Facts

3. What are the relevant facts of the case? What facts are unknown?

4. What individuals and groups have an important stake in the outcome?
Do some have a greater stake because they have a special need or
because we have special obligations to them?

5. What are the options for acting? Have all the relevant persons and
groups been consulted? If you showed your list of options to someone
you respect, what would that person say?

-------------------------------------------------
Evaluate Alternative Actions From
Various Ethical Perspectives
-------------------------------------------------

6. Which option will produce the most good and do the least harm?

Utilitarian Approach: The ethical action is the one that will produce
the greatest balance of benefits over harms.

7. Even if not everyone gets all they want, will everyone's rights and
dignity still be respected?

Rights Approach: The ethical action is the one that most dutifully
respects the rights of all affected.

8. Which option is fair to all stakeholders?

Fairness or Justice Approach: The ethical action is the one that treats
people equally, or if unequally, that treats people proportionately and
fairly.

9. Which option would help all participate more fully in the life we
share as a family, community, society?

Common Good Approach: The ethical action is the one that contributes
most to the achievement of a quality common life together.

10. Would you want to become the sort of person who acts this way
(e.g., a person of courage or compassion)?

Virtue Approach: The ethical action is the one that embodies the habits
and values of humans at their best.

----------------------------------------
Make a Decision and Test It
----------------------------------------

11. Considering all these perspectives, which of the options is the
right or best thing to do?

12. If you told someone you respect why you chose this option, what
would that person say? If you had to explain your decision on
television, would you be comfortable doing so?

Act, Then Reflect on the Decision Later

13. Implement your decision. How did it turn out for all concerned? If
you had it to do over again, what would you do differently?

http://www.scu.edu/ethics/practicing/decision/framework.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chapter 6 - The Problem of Justifying an Ethical Standard
- - - http://www.ditext.com/cornman/corn6.html - - -
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

A) Evaluating Actions versus Evaluating People

B) Method of Critically Evaluating Ethical Theories

C) Theological Ethics

1) Objection: We Must Justify Religious
Claims by Ethical Claims

D) Ethical Relativism

1) Action Relativism versus
Standard Relativism

2) Definition of Ethical Relativism

3) The Argument from Differing
Ethical Judgments

4) The Argument from Different
Ethical Standards

5) Ethical Relativism Defended:
A Modified Argument

E) Ethical Nihilism

1) The Argument from Different
Ethical Standards

2) The Argument from the Lack
of Justification

F) The "No-Standard" Theory

1) The Argument from Exceptions

2) Objection to the No-Standard Theory:
Not Every Ethical Standard
Has Exceptions

3) A Second Objection to the No-Standard
Theory: Nonmoral Agreement but
Moral Disagreement

G) Ethical Skepticism

H) Ethical Egoism

I) Egoistic Hedonism

1) The Argument from
Psychological Egoism

2) Objection to Psychological Egoism:
People Sometimes Act Benevolently

3) Reply: People Always Act Out
of Self-Love

4) Final Objection: People Do Not
Always Act Out of Self-Love

5) The Argument from Good Reasons

6) Objection: Desiring To Do Something
Does Not Justify Doing It

7) Rejection of Egoistic Hedonism:
It Prescribes Morally Repugnant Acts

J) Nonhedonistic Ethical Egoism

1) Objection to Ethical Egoism: It
Prescribes Morally Repugnant Acts

K) Conclusion About Ethical Egoism:
It Should Be Rejected

L) Utilitarianism: Bentham's Version

1) The Principle of Utility

2) Arguments for the Principle of Utility

3) Direct Proofs for the Principle of
Utility: Deriving 'Ought' from 'Is'

- Hume's Objection: No 'Ought'
Is Deducible from 'Is'

- A Further Objection: Naturalistic
(Definist) Fallacy

4) Bentham's Indirect Proof of
the Principle of Utility

- Objection to Bentham's Proof: It
Does Not Disprove All Opposing Views

- The Hedonic Calculus

- An Objection to Bentham's
Principle: Sadistic Pleasures

M) Utilitarianism: Mill's Version

1) Quality versus Quantity of Pleasure

N) An Objection to Utilitarianism:
Special Duties

O) Another Objection to Utilitarianism:
The Problem of Justice

P) Deontological Ethics: Kant's Theory

1) The Highest Good: A Good Will

2) The Moral Law and the
Categorical Imperative

3) The First Formulation of
the Categorical Imperative

- Objection to First Formulation:
Which Maxims to Universalize?

- Another Objection: Cannot
Derive Specific Duties

4) The Second Formulation of
the Categorical Imperative

- An Objection to Kant's Theory:
It Is Not Applicable in All Situations

- A Second Objection: Absolute
versus Prima Facie Duties

- A Third Objection: Kant's Theory
Cannot Resolve Conflicts of Duty

Q) Rule Utilitarianism

1) Acts, Laws, Judges, and Legislators

R) Six Requirements for a Satisfactory
Ethical Standard and an Examination
of Rule Utilitarianism

1) Objection to Rule Utilitarianism:
No Guarantee of Justice

S) A Proposal for a Satisfactory Standard:
A Utilitarian Kantian Principle

T) Conclusion

U) Exercises

- Relativism, Nihilism,
Skepticism, and Egoism

- 'Ought' and 'Is'

- The Definist Fallacy

- Utilitarianism

- Kantianism

- The Utilitarian Kantian Standard

Complete Chapter Here;
http://www.ditext.com/cornman/corn6.html

From the Book;

Philosophical Problems and Arguments: An Introduction
by James W. Cornman, Keith Lehrer, George Sotiros Pappas
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0872201244/
http://hume.ucdavis.edu/phi102/lecmenu.htm
jer0en
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:55 pm
Guest
As to non-professional ethics, to cut a long story short, they would be
relative to the question if I, or somebody else, were likely to kill you in
case you were to apply them, and in which way.

But that would be plain to a two-year old after it would have had its first
spanking, for having lit matches in the bedroom. It's definitely unethical
to set fire to the house.

There's hardly anything universal about non-professional ethics. In fact,
it's completely empirical.
jer0en
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:29 pm
Guest
If we were to involve how many people were likely to kill you in a
particular way, that would return us to the (im)balances in a particular
society that I've just mentioned.

And how economically interesting it would be to have a useful model
describing, in full detail, the likeliness of such repercussions in case any
hypothetical marketing strategy were to be applied.

That's the rub with ethics, they are the ultimate trade secret.
jer0en
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:50 pm
Guest
Quite redundantly, in a typical group setting, someone would communicate an
ethical framework with particular key-figures in the group, and keep
everybody else uninformed, and wait for any adversary to offend against that
framework to an extent that would justify, to the key-figures, stabbing him
or her, quite legitimately, in the back. They are game rules, but by no
means public. So much ethics for the day.
jer0en
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:12 pm
Guest
This is not the way the wicked man applies ethics. It is the way ethics ARE
applied.

So long as they remain secret, ethics are the ultimate threat and a very
powerful weapon.

And that is probably the only universal thing there is to be said on ethics.
jer0en
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:25 pm
Guest
This is where the pillar of Hammurabi comes in. With 3 ft. in diameter, it
was the first instance of (cuneiform) written law in history.
jer0en
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:21 pm
Guest
A summary may be called for.

The thing with ethics is

A. in the public interest they should be public

B. they should quit pretending to be universal or we shall all be dining
with the aliens.
jer0en
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:34 pm
Guest
So did you work it out? The model? I did. But we shouldn't be talking as the
enemy is listening. Trouble is the enemy already has these facts. If anyone
it is us who are the ignorant. So here's the model of professional ethics.

Our society is divided into a finite number of interest groups, some of
which of course would overlap.

These interest groups have councellors, that may act as representatives in
courts on behalf of the members of the interest group they represent.

Court sessions are typically initiated by a councellor of one interest group
filing a COMPLAINT with another interest group.

The court itself never is a third party, but always belongs to, or better is
an institution of either of the two parties involved. Which one depends on
the mutual social status of the parties. The party with the highest status
provides the court.

The court applies a set of rules conceptually classified as ethics, that are
based on the notions and interests of the party it belongs to only, to
determine whether the complaint be admissable.

That's it.
jer0en
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:52 pm
Guest
Ideally, of course.
Immortalist
Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:46 pm
Guest
On Jan 27, 7:05 am, "jer0en" <jer...@freemail.nl> wrote:
Quote:
Immortalist wrote:
If our ethics are not based on feelings, religion, law, accepted
social practice, or science, what are they based on?

I don't remember having done an ethical thing in my life if I didn't expect
either punishment or reward, in that following order.
So there's your answer. Either punishment or reward.


If what you just described is compliance are you saying you have never
made decisions based up "identification" and "internalization?" You
must be like a robot knee jerker reactionaryiary?

Responses to Social Influence

Thus far, I have been describing two kinds of conformity in more or
less commonsensical terms. This distinction was based upon (1) whether
the individual was being motivated by rewards and punishments or by a
need to know and (2) the relative permanence of the conforming
behavior. Let us move beyond this simple distinction to a more complex
and useful classification that applies not only to conformity but to
the entire spectrum of social influence. Instead of using the simple
term conformity, I would like to distinguish among three kinds of
responses to social influence: compliance, identification, and
internalization.

Compliance. The term compliance best describes the behavior of a
person who is motivated by a desire to gain reward or avoid
punishment. Typically, the person's behavior is only as long-lived as
the promise of reward or the threat of punishment. Thus, one can
induce a rat to run a maze efficiently by making it hungry and placing
food at the end of the maze. Chances are that a ruthless dictator
could get a percentage of his citizens to indicate their allegiance by
threatening them with torture if they don't comply or by promising to
feed and enrich them if they do. On the level of compliance, most
researchers see little difference between the behavior of humans and
other animals because all organisms are responsive to concrete rewards
and punishments. Thus, remove the food from the goal box and the rat
will eventually stop running; remove the food or the threat of
punishment and the citizens will cease showing allegiance to the
dictator.

Identification. Identification is a response to social influence
brought about by an individual's desire to be like the influencer. In
identification, as in compliance, we do not behave in a particular way
because such behavior is intrinsically satisfying; rather, we adopt a
particular behavior because it puts us in a satisfying relationship to
the person or persons with whom we are identifying. Identification
differs from compliance in that we do come to believe in the opinions
and values we adopt, although we do not believe in them very strongly.
Thus, if we find a person or a group attractive or appealing in some
way, we will be inclined to accept influence from that person or group
and adopt similar values and attitudes-not in order to obtain a reward
or avoid a punishment (as in compliance), but simply to be like that
person or group. I refer to this as the good-old-Uncle-Charlie
phenomenon. Suppose you have an uncle named Charlie who happens to be
a warm, dynamic, exciting person; ever since you were a young child,
you loved him and wanted to grow up to be like him. Uncle Charlie is a
corporate executive who has a number of strong opinions, including a
deep antipathy to social welfare legislation. That is, he is convinced
that anyone who really tries can earn a decent wage and that, by
handing money to people, the government only succeeds in eliminating
their desire to work. As a young child, you heard Uncle Charlie
announce this position on several occasions, and it has become part of
your system of beliefs-not because you thought it through and it
seemed right to you or because Uncle Charlie rewarded you for adopting
(or threatened to punish you for not adopting) this position. Rather,
it has become part of your belief system because of your liking for
Uncle Charlie, which has produced in you a tendency to incorporate
into your life that which is his.

Internalization. The internalization of a value or belief is the most
permanent, most deeply rooted response to social influence. The
motivation to internalize a particular belief is the desire to be
right. Thus, the reward for the belief is intrinsic. If the person who
provides the influence is perceived to be trustworthy and to have good
judgment, we accept the belief he or she advocates and we integrate it
into our system of values. Once it is part of our own system, it
becomes independent of its source and will become extremely resistant
to change.

Let us discuss some of the important distinguishing characteristics of
these three responses to social influence. Compliance is the least
enduring and has the least effect on the individual because people
comply merely to gain reward or to avoid punishment. The complier
understands the force of the circumstance and can easily change his or
her behavior when the circumstance no longer prevails. At gunpoint, I
could be made to say almost anything; but with the threat of death
removed, I could quickly shrug off those statements and their
implications. If a child is kind and generous to his younger brother
in order to obtain a cookie from his mother, he will not necessarily
become a generous person. He has not learned that generosity is a good
thing in itself; what he has learned is that generosity is a good way
to get cookies. When the cookie supply is exhausted, his generous
behavior will eventually cease unless that behavior is bolstered by
some other reward (or punishment). Rewards and punishments are
important means of inducing people to learn and perform specific
activities but they are very limited techniques of social influence
because they must be ever present to be effective-unless the
individual discovers some additional reason for continuing the
behavior. This last point will be discussed shortly.

Continuous reward or punishment is not necessary for the response to
social influence I call identification. The person with whom the
individual identifies need not be present at all; all that is needed
is the individual's desire to be like that person. For example, if
Uncle Charlie moves to a different city and months (or even years) go
by without your seeing him, you will continue to hold beliefs similar
to his as long as (1) he remains important to you, (2) he still holds
the same beliefs, and (3) these beliefs are not challenged by
counteropinions that are more convincing. But, by the same token,
these beliefs can be changed if Uncle Charlie has a change of heart or
if your love for Uncle Charlie begins to fade. They can also change if
a person or group of people who are more important to you than Uncle
Charlie profess a different set of beliefs. For example, suppose you
are away at college and you find a group of new, exciting friends who,
unlike Uncle Charlie, are strongly in favor of social welfare. If you
admire them as much as (or more than) your uncle, you may change your
beliefs in order to be more like them. Thus, a more important
identification may supersede a previous identification.

The effect of social influence through identification can also be
dissipated by a person's desire to be right. If you have taken on a
belief through identification and you are subsequently presented with
a convincing counterargument by an expert and trustworthy person, you
will probably change your belief. Internalization is the most
permanent response to social influence precisely because your
motivation to be right is a powerful and self-sustaining force that
does not depend upon constant surveillance in the form of agents of
reward or punishment, as does compliance, or on your continued esteem
for another person or group, as does identification.

It is important to realize that any specific action may be due to
either compliance, identification, or internalization. For example,
let us look at a simple piece of behavior: obedience of the laws
pertaining to fast driving. Society employs highway patrol officers to
enforce these laws, and as we all know, people tend to drive within
the speed limit if they are forewarned that a certain stretch of
highway is being carefully scrutinized by these officers. This is
compliance. It is a clear case of obeying the law in order to avoid
paying a penalty. Suppose you were to remove the highway patrol. As
soon as people found out about it, many would increase their driving
speed. But some people might continue to obey the speed limit; a
person might continue to obey because Dad (or Uncle Charlie) always
obeyed the speed limit or always stressed the importance of obeying
traffic laws. This, of course, is identification. Finally, people
might conform to the speed limit because they are convinced that speed
laws are good, that obeying such laws helps to prevent accidents, and
that driving at a moderate speed is a sane and reasonable form of
behavior. This is internalization. And with inter-nalization you would
observe more flexibility in the behavior. For example, under certain
conditions-at 6 o'clock on a Sunday morning, with perfect visibility
and no traffic for miles around- the individual might exceed the speed
limit. The compliant individual, however, might fear a radar trap, and
the identifying individual might be identifying with a very rigid
model; thus, both would be less responsive to important changes in the
environment.

Let us look at the major component in each response to social
influence. In compliance, the important component is power-the power
of the influencer to dole out the reward for compliance and punishment
for noncompliance. Parents have the power to praise, give love,
provide cookies, scream, give spankings, withhold allowances, and so
on; teachers have the power to paste gold stars on our foreheads or
flunk us out of college; and employers have the power to praise,
promote, humiliate, or discharge us. The U.S. government has the power
to increase economic aid to or withhold it from a dependent nation.
Thus, the government can use this technique to persuade a small
country in Latin America to hold a more or less democratic election.
Rewards and punishments are effective means for producing this kind of
compliance, but we might ask whether or not mere compliance is
desirable: To induce a nation to hold a democratic election is easier
than to induce the rulers of that nation to think and rule
democratically.

In identification, the crucial component is attractiveness-the
attractiveness of the person with whom we identify. Because we
identify with the model, we want to hold the same opinions that the
model holds. Suppose a person you admire takes a particular stand on
an issue. Unless you have strong feelings or solid information to the
contrary, there will be a tendency for you to adopt this position.
Incidentally, it is interesting to note that the reverse is also true:
If a person or group that you dislike announces a position, there will
be a tendency for you to reject that position or adopt the opposite
position. Suppose, for example, that you dislike a particular group
(say, the Nazi party in the United States), and that group speaks out
against raising the minimum wage. If you know nothing about the issue,
your tendency will be to favor raising the minimum wage-all other
things being equal.

In internalization, the important component is credibility-the
credibility of the person who supplies the information. For example,
if you read a statement by a person who is highly credible- that is,
someone who is both expert and trustworthy-you would tend to be
influenced by it because of your desire to be correct. Recall our
earlier example of the diplomats at the Freedonian dinner party. Your
acceptance of their expertise made their behavior (belching after the
meal) seem the right thing to do. Accordingly, my guess is that this
behavior (your tendency to belch after a meal at the home of a
Freedonian dignitary) would become internalized; you would do it,
thereafter, because you believed it to be right.

Recall the experiment on conformity performed by Solomon Asch, in
which social pressure induced many subjects to conform to the
erroneous statements of a group. Recall further that, when the
subjects were allowed to respond in private, the incidence of
conformity dropped considerably. Clearly, then, internalization or
identification was not involved. It seems obvious that the subjects
were complying with the unanimous opinion of the group in order to
avoid the punishment of ridicule or rejection. If either
identification or internalization had been involved, the conforming
behavior would have persisted in private.

The trichotomy of compliance, identification, and internalization is a
useful one. At the same time, it should be made clear that, like most
ways of classifying the world, it is not perfect; there are some
places where the categories overlap. Specifically, although it is true
that compliance and identification are generally more temporary than
internalization, there are circumstances that can increase their
permanence. For example, permanence can be increased if an individual
makes a firm commitment to continue to interact with the person or
group of people that induced the original act of compliance. Thus, in
an experiment by Charles Kiesler and his colleagues, when subjects
believed that they were going to continue interacting with an
unattractive discussion group, they not only complied publicly, but
they also seemed to internalize their conformity-that is, they changed
their private opinions as well as their public behavior. This kind of
situation will be discussed in greater detail in Chapter 5.

Permanence can also result if, while complying, we discover something
about our actions, or about the consequences of our actions that makes
it worthwhile to continue the behavior even after the original reason
for compliance (the reward or punishment) is no longer forthcoming.
This is called a secondary gain. For example, in behavior modification
therapy, an attempt is made to eliminate unwanted or maladaptive
behavior by systematically punishing that behavior, by rewarding
alternative behaviors, or both. For example, various attempts have
been made to use this technique as a way of helping people kick the
cigarette habit. Individuals might be given a series of painful
electric shocks while performing the usual rituals of smoking - that
is, while lighting a cigarette, bringing it up to their lips,
inhaling, and so on. After several trials, the individual will refuse
to smoke. Unfortunately, it is fairly easy for people to notice a
difference between the experimental situation and the world outside:
They realize they will not be shocked when smoking outside of the
experimental situation. Consequently, a person may later experience a
little residual anxiety when lighting a cigarette, but because
electric shocks are clearly not forthcoming, the anxiety eventually
fades. Thus, many people who temporarily cease smoking after this form
of behavior modification will eventually smoke again after electric
shock is no longer a threat. How about those who stay off cigarettes
after behavior modification? Here is the point: Once we have been
induced to comply, and therefore do not smoke for several days, it is
possible for us to make a discovery. Over the years, we may have come
to believe it was inevitable that we awaken every morning with a
hacking cough and a hot, dry mouth, but after refraining from smoking
for a few weeks, we may discover how delightful it feels to have a
clear throat and a fresh, unparched mouth. This discovery may be
enough to keep us from smoking again. Thus, although compliance, in
and of itself, usually does not produce long-lasting behavior, it may
set the stage for events that will lead to more permanent effects.

The Social Animal - Elliot Aronson - 8th Edition 1999
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0716733129/

Quote:
The field of ethics seems to be particularly relevant to the people in the
very specialised circumstance of being rewarded (paid) IN ADVANCE to be
ethical, usually even in a particular flavour. Like priests, politicians,
diplomats, judges, short everyone in public offices, and the ombudsman. It
seems to be rather impracticle if not hypocritical to pose ethics as
universal laws that would go for other people in other circumstances, let
alone anyone in any circumstance. They are the professional assets of peope
who are to make decisions in (semi) public cases, but no rules that govern
general philosophy, as far as I can see.

It would be interesting enough though to describe the different flavours of
ethics expected from priests, ombudsmen, diplomats, judges, resp., and how
these may contribute to the (im)balances in a particular society. Since
their offices are more accurately described as those of SPOKESMEN of
particular interest groups rather than the "universally" independent
councellors their ethical philosophies pretend them to be. Those just tell
us that they would be willing to expand their adminitrative powers
indefinitely. That would be within the scope of general philosophy, because
it would rid us of a universal lie.

In plain language, you come before a particular court, you get judged by a
particular flavour of ethics. If you were allowed to defend yourself, it
would be useful to be familiar with the particulars of the ethics. But not
outside of the court.

This would definitively settle the undying question if "you should always
have lemon tea" is, in fact, an ethical suggestion. Because, if some kind of
punishment were involved, it would be indeed.

You could even, quite redundantly, add it: You should always have lemon tea.
That was an ethical suggestion.
ZerkonX
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 12:24 pm
Guest
On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:32:15 -0800, Immortalist wrote:

Quote:
On what do we base our ethical standards?

On what is 'right'. Most agree on this.
What is 'right'? Most disagree on this since 'right' is relative
(gasp!) to many things.

Maybe the next tangible step from ethics is justice in it's broadest sense.
Both imply a consideration of another outside of pure self-interest but
inside of a code written or unwritten. In whatever case there has to be an
element of selflessness.

Maybe an ethical standard is codified empathy.
jer0en
Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:30 pm
Guest
I think you confuse empathy and compassion. Empathy by itself is just an
(underdeveloped) sense. As to compassion, that is just the fear of society
allowing the same thing to happen to you.

By acting on compassion, you subconsciously think you are making a deal with
society to have compassion on you, in case you are in the same position.
That would be the reward.

By not acting on compassion, you subconsciously think you are striking a
deal with society to have compassion on you, in case you are in the same
position. That would be the punishment.

Such deals are not just in your mind, they are quite real. If someone would
witness you not having the required level of compassion where society feels
it is proper, he would use it to eliminate you immedeately, with reasonable
chances of succes. This explains why you would feel bad about it, because
you anticipate the seriousness of the situation quite accurately.

There's no harm in going for the reward. In fact I wouldn't recommend
anything else. You sleep like a baby. But there's no harm in having a
realistic concept of ethics either.
jer0en
Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:05 pm
Guest
Quote:
Immortalist wrote:

If our ethics are not based on feelings, religion, law, accepted social
practice, or science, what are they based on?


Quote:
jer0en wrote:

I don't remember having done an ethical thing in my life if I didn't expect
either punishment or reward, in that following order. So there's your

answer. Either punishment or reward.

Quote:
Immortalist wrote:

If what you just described is compliance are you saying you have never made
decisions based up "identification" and "internalization?" You must be like

a robot knee jerker reactionaryiary?


I haven't a clue what internalization means, but as to the robot knee jerker
reactionaryiary I'm afraid you're right. But what is more, I think that you
are, just a confused one. So for both our sakes, a more leniant verdict
would be in place.

As to the compliance, that's in the social contract. Our lives belong to
society, which in Europe would be plain from the fact that you recognise
police authority to the extent of not carrying a weapon. If you die because
of this, there will be justice, just not for you. Anyone could take your
life at any time, and you would not have any rights to prevent it. So if I'm
a sitting duck for society, I might as well comply with its other written
rules. As to the unwritten ones, I remain, your obediant servant,

jer0en
 
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