Are "Don" and "Doña" still in use in Latin America and among Latins
living in the United States?

I am writing from Spain, where they are still fairly common in
villages and small towns, in official presentations for instance in the
media, at parties to address acquaintances of a certain age or rank.

Steven M (remove wax and invalid to reply) wrote:
Je 28 Dec 2006 03:14:38 -0800, "cantueso" <cantueso@dieznet.com
skribis:

Are "Don" and "Doña" still in use in Latin America and among Latins
living in the United States?

I am writing from Spain, where they are still fairly common in
villages and small towns, in official presentations for instance in the
media, at parties to address acquaintances of a certain age or rank.

They are yet in use. But from my own experience, there is a point of
care
to be noted in their application. If your subject is widely acclaimed
by
either of those honorifics, your usage will be a comfortable fit. If,
however, you are the first
to address someone with these titles, your addressee may be positively
surprised or
feel uncomfortably flattered by the titles particularly when used in a
group of those
likewise amused. All this varies considerably with the customs in the
community of the regarded individual's membership.

But writing from Spain, you should get the best benefit of the doubt as
to your native formal intent,

especially if you include a disclaimer
asking your correspondent what would
be the best way to best address them in the future. It will be quite
interesting to
review a discussion on this issue.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

Je 28 Dec 2006 03:14:38 -0800, "cantueso" <cantueso@dieznet.com
skribis:

Are "Don" and "Doña" still in use in Latin America and among Latins
living in the United States?

I am writing from Spain, where they are still fairly common in
villages and small towns, in official presentations for instance in the
media, at parties to address acquaintances of a certain age or rank.

I'm going to pose this question on the two following groups. They are
each read by hundreds of translators, mostly Spanish-speakers.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/sptranslators/
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Translist/

--
Steven M - spam_no@hal-pc.orgwax.invalid
(remove wax and invalid to reply)

In 1754, Philadelphia accountant and habitual procrastinator
Joseph P. Fiscal had fallen six months behind in his work, and
looking for a way to catch up, invented what is now known as
the Fiscal Year." -- Bill Dutcher

Are "Don" and "Doña" still in use in Latin America...

Steven M (remove wax and invalid to reply) wrote:
Je 28 Dec 2006 03:14:38 -0800, "cantueso" <cantueso@dieznet.com
skribis:

Are "Don" and "Doña" still in use in Latin America and among Latins
living in the United States?

I am writing from Spain, where they are still fairly common in
villages and small towns, in official presentations for instance in the
media, at parties to address acquaintances of a certain age or rank.

I'm going to pose this question on the two following groups. They are
each read by hundreds of translators, mostly Spanish-speakers.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/sptranslators/
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Translist/

Thank you for the links.

I'll go there tomorrow..

Edward Hennessey wrote:
Steven M (remove wax and invalid to reply) wrote:
Je 28 Dec 2006 03:14:38 -0800, "cantueso" <cantueso@dieznet.com
skribis:

Are "Don" and "Doña" still in use in Latin America and among Latins
living in the United States?

I am writing from Spain, where they are still fairly common in
villages and small towns, in official presentations for instance in the
media, at parties to address acquaintances of a certain age or rank.

They are yet in use. But from my own experience, there is a point of
care
to be noted in their application. If your subject is widely acclaimed
by
either of those honorifics, your usage will be a comfortable fit. If,
however, you are the first
to address someone with these titles, your addressee may be positively
surprised or
feel uncomfortably flattered by the titles particularly when used in a
group of those
likewise amused. All this varies considerably with the customs in the
community of the regarded individual's membership.

But writing from Spain, you should get the best benefit of the doubt as
to your native formal intent,

I understood everything down to here, but I cannot figure out what the
"native formal intent" could be. I am not a native speaker of
anything, but what could the formal intent be?

Maybe I should ask Spanish friends? The Spaniards that I know do not
take any interest in their language. And a question of this kind,
which, however indirectly, refers to matters of class or rank, just
makes everyone bitchy. (They have all just started digging up their
civil war memories; one of their best journalist-poet-writers came up
with the word "guerracivilismo").

especially if you include a disclaimer
asking your correspondent what would
be the best way to best address them in the future. It will be quite
interesting to
review a discussion on this issue.

Good idea. but "precisamente" I wanted to explain this "Don" to some US
friends who came here to learn Spanish.

Then, in dangerous brief, I would say it is a term most often used by
someone on a more fundamental rung of the social scale to usually
distinguish an older gentleman
most often in a traditional community or ceremonial setting who has
renown or power.
Thus, a mature scholar might get the title and so might a drug lord.
And, as I've carefully
framed the above, there is a long list of exceptions to norm.

Edward Hennessey ha escrito:


Then, in dangerous brief, I would say it is a term most often used by
someone on a more fundamental rung of the social scale to usually
distinguish an older gentleman
most often in a traditional community or ceremonial setting who has
renown or power.
Thus, a mature scholar might get the title and so might a drug lord.
And, as I've carefully
framed the above, there is a long list of exceptions to norm.


Until very recently (I'm talking up to the 90s), all teachers would be
addressed to as Don X, Doña X or señorita X by everyone in class. Up
to the 60s, even the parents would do that.

Today the use of Don/Doña is largely ceremonial and rather old
fashioned, used only in formal announcements.

For example, only (well, mostly) businessmen in their 60s insist in
getting the "Don" at the place of work. The use in smaller, rural
communities may be higher, though.

Nowadays it's usual to mock someone using Don X when it's quite some
time you don't see him (meaning the person in question is perhaps too
busy to meet with you).

Nowadays it's usual to mock someone using Don X when it's quite some
time you don't see him (meaning the person in question is perhaps too
busy to meet with you).

Jordi, I think what you're saying is typical, but I also think that
usage varies across Latin America. I grew up in Venezuela and we
never called teachers Don or Doña. Where are you from?

Are "Don" and "Doña" still in use in Latin America and among Latins
living in the United States?

I am writing from Spain, where they are still fairly common in
villages and small towns, in official presentations for instance in the
media, at parties to address acquaintances of a certain age or rank.

cantueso wrote:
Edward Hennessey wrote:
Steven M (remove wax and invalid to reply) wrote:
Je 28 Dec 2006 03:14:38 -0800, "cantueso" <cantueso@dieznet.com
skribis:

Are "Don" and "Doña" still in use in Latin America and among Latins
living in the United States?

I am writing from Spain, where they are still fairly common in
villages and small towns, in official presentations for instance in the
media, at parties to address acquaintances of a certain age or rank.

They are yet in use. But from my own experience, there is a point of
care
to be noted in their application. If your subject is widely acclaimed
by
either of those honorifics, your usage will be a comfortable fit. If,
however, you are the first
to address someone with these titles, your addressee may be positively
surprised or
feel uncomfortably flattered by the titles particularly when used in a
group of those
likewise amused. All this varies considerably with the customs in the
community of the regarded individual's membership.

But writing from Spain, you should get the best benefit of the doubt as
to your native formal intent,

I understood everything down to here, but I cannot figure out what the
"native formal intent" could be. I am not a native speaker of
anything, but what could the formal intent be?

C:

My thought is that people in Mexico and Latinos here will naturally
idealize the Spanish
of a person writing from Spain--be he detectably Spaniard or not--as
naturally more formal and more pure than the language and slang that is
their familiar diet. The truth of this is something else

but as Spain
is the mother country for the mother tongue, that should be a
preconception one can rely on to safeguard use of the honorifics given.

My own practice is to be formal unless otherwise instructed or
encouraged by badinage, tone or other situational factors. It is hard
to offend by reliance on terms of utmost respect and dangerously easy
to think onself hip by opting for informal liberties that admit of less
kind understanding.

Maybe I should ask Spanish friends? The Spaniards that I know do not
take any interest in their language. And a question of this kind,
which, however indirectly, refers to matters of class or rank, just
makes everyone bitchy. (They have all just started digging up their
civil war memories; one of their best journalist-poet-writers came up
with the word "guerracivilismo").

especially if you include a disclaimer
asking your correspondent what would
be the best way to best address them in the future. It will be quite
interesting to
review a discussion on this issue.

Good idea. but "precisamente" I wanted to explain this "Don" to some US
friends who came here to learn Spanish.

Then, in dangerous brief, I would say it is a term most often used by
someone on a more fundamental rung of the social scale to usually
distinguish an older gentleman
most often in a traditional community or ceremonial setting who has
renown or power.
Thus, a mature scholar might get the title and so might a drug lord.
And, as I've carefully
framed the above, there is a long list of exceptions to norm.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

Edward Hennessey ha escrito:


Then, in dangerous brief, I would say it is a term most often used by
someone on a more fundamental rung of the social scale to usually
distinguish an older gentleman
most often in a traditional community or ceremonial setting who has
renown or power.
Thus, a mature scholar might get the title and so might a drug lord.
And, as I've carefully
framed the above, there is a long list of exceptions to norm.


Until very recently (I'm talking up to the 90s), all teachers would be
addressed to as Don X, Doña X or señorita X by everyone in class. Up
to the 60s, even the parents would do that.

Today the use of Don/Doña is largely ceremonial and rather old
fashioned, used only in formal announcements.

For example, only (well, mostly) businessmen in their 60s insist in
getting the "Don" at the place of work. The use in smaller, rural
communities may be higher, though.

Nowadays it's usual to mock someone using Don X when it's quite some
time you don't see him (meaning the person in question is perhaps too
busy to meet with you).

J.

Steven M (remove wax and invalid to reply) ha escrito:


Nowadays it's usual to mock someone using Don X when it's quite some
time you don't see him (meaning the person in question is perhaps too
busy to meet with you).

Jordi, I think what you're saying is typical, but I also think that
usage varies across Latin America. I grew up in Venezuela and we
never called teachers Don or Doña. Where are you from?


Spain, near Valencia.

J.

cantueso wrote:
Are "Don" and "Doña" still in use in Latin America and among Latins
living in the United States?

I am writing from Spain, where they are still fairly common in
villages and small towns, in official presentations for instance in the
media, at parties to address acquaintances of a certain age or rank.

Out of comparitive curiousity, what is the state of distinction and
usage of like
titles in Italy?

Regards,

Edward Hennessey