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| John Stephenson |
 Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:38 am |
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X-No-Archive: yes
Hello,
http://www.christophermayo.com/i/funkysign.jpg
This website's author says he took this pic in Hawaii, and that that
Japanese katakana script below the English is gibberish. A Japanese
friend, however, speculated that it might be Hawaiian, written in
katakana for Japanese tourists' benefit. Anyone know if this is true?
And if so, is writing Hawaiian in Japanese script common?
Thanks,
John. |
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| Paul Davidson |
| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:51 am |
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On 2006-06-14 17:38:09 +0900, "John Stephenson"
<newsgroups@linguistics.org.uk> said:
[quote:d4b1c7bd83]X-No-Archive: yes
Hello,
http://www.christophermayo.com/i/funkysign.jpg
This website's author says he took this pic in Hawaii, and that that
Japanese katakana script below the English is gibberish. A Japanese
friend, however, speculated that it might be Hawaiian, written in
katakana for Japanese tourists' benefit. Anyone know if this is true?
And if so, is writing Hawaiian in Japanese script common?
Thanks,
John.
[/quote:d4b1c7bd83]
John, a slightly closer look at the picture would have given you your
answer.  The katakana bit has exactly the same number of "words" and
characters as the English, and the same kana characters appear where
the same letters appear $B!=(B i.e. someone re-typed the English and set it
in one of those pseudo-katakana fonts, perhaps idiotically thinking
that the result would be more comprensible to Japanese speakers! Surely
this is one of the stupidest "translation" gaffs ever by the tourism
industry.
Paul |
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| Paul Davidson |
| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:53 am |
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On 2006-06-14 17:38:09 +0900, "John Stephenson"
<newsgroups@linguistics.org.uk> said:
[quote:c74a760c99]X-No-Archive: yes
Hello,
http://www.christophermayo.com/i/funkysign.jpg
This website's author says he took this pic in Hawaii, and that that
Japanese katakana script below the English is gibberish. A Japanese
friend, however, speculated that it might be Hawaiian, written in
katakana for Japanese tourists' benefit. Anyone know if this is true?
And if so, is writing Hawaiian in Japanese script common?
Thanks,
John.
[/quote:c74a760c99]
PS In addition to what I wrote in my last post, it is easy to decipher
that the company name which has been censored is "Wal-mart". It figures.
Paul |
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| Harlan Messinger |
| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:38 am |
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Paul Davidson wrote:
[quote:dba295e48a]On 2006-06-14 17:38:09 +0900, "John Stephenson"
newsgroups@linguistics.org.uk> said:
X-No-Archive: yes
Hello,
http://www.christophermayo.com/i/funkysign.jpg
This website's author says he took this pic in Hawaii, and that that
Japanese katakana script below the English is gibberish. A Japanese
friend, however, speculated that it might be Hawaiian, written in
katakana for Japanese tourists' benefit. Anyone know if this is true?
And if so, is writing Hawaiian in Japanese script common?
Thanks,
John.
John, a slightly closer look at the picture would have given you your
answer. The katakana bit has exactly the same number of "words" and
characters as the English, and the same kana characters appear where the
same letters appear $B!=(B i.e. someone re-typed the English and set it in
one of those pseudo-katakana fonts, perhaps idiotically thinking that
the result would be more comprensible to Japanese speakers! Surely this
is one of the stupidest "translation" gaffs ever by the tourism industry.
[/quote:dba295e48a]
In that case, the "company name" is Wal-Mart. |
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| Tzortzakakis Dimitrios |
| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:57 am |
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$B&/(B "Paul Davidson" <paul@hiddenfortress.ten> ?$B&C&Q&A&W&E(B $B&R&S&O(B $B&L(B?$B&M&T&L&A(B
news:2006061420514882327-paul@hiddenfortressten...
[quote:007a57a5f8]On 2006-06-14 17:38:09 +0900, "John Stephenson"
newsgroups@linguistics.org.uk> said:
X-No-Archive: yes
Hello,
http://www.christophermayo.com/i/funkysign.jpg
This website's author says he took this pic in Hawaii, and that that
Japanese katakana script below the English is gibberish. A Japanese
friend, however, speculated that it might be Hawaiian, written in
katakana for Japanese tourists' benefit. Anyone know if this is true?
And if so, is writing Hawaiian in Japanese script common?
Thanks,
John.
John, a slightly closer look at the picture would have given you your
answer. The katakana bit has exactly the same number of "words" and
characters as the English, and the same kana characters appear where
the same letters appear $B!=(B i.e. someone re-typed the English and set it
in one of those pseudo-katakana fonts, perhaps idiotically thinking
that the result would be more comprensible to Japanese speakers! Surely
this is one of the stupidest "translation" gaffs ever by the tourism
industry.
Paul
I think the greek governments efforts in putting up english-spelled signs[/quote:007a57a5f8]
exceeds it-instead of translating into english they use latin spelling-e.g.
<olympic stadium> is <olympiaco stadio> or something like that.Not helpful
at all for tourists. |
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| Dik T. Winter |
| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:10 am |
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In article <2006061420535031729-paul@hiddenfortressten> Paul Davidson <paul@hiddenfortress.ten> writes:
[quote:b0d22af7ec]On 2006-06-14 17:38:09 +0900, "John Stephenson"
newsgroups@linguistics.org.uk> said:
....
http://www.christophermayo.com/i/funkysign.jpg
....
PS In addition to what I wrote in my last post, it is easy to decipher
that the company name which has been censored is "Wal-mart". It figures.
[/quote:b0d22af7ec]
I wonder how they cae at their transcription of "customers"... An
additional comma perhaps?
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/ |
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| Harlan Messinger |
| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:25 am |
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Dik T. Winter wrote:
[quote:3a02559135]In article <2006061420535031729-paul@hiddenfortressten> Paul Davidson <paul@hiddenfortress.ten> writes:
On 2006-06-14 17:38:09 +0900, "John Stephenson"
newsgroups@linguistics.org.uk> said:
...
http://www.christophermayo.com/i/funkysign.jpg
...
PS In addition to what I wrote in my last post, it is easy to decipher
that the company name which has been censored is "Wal-mart". It figures.
I wonder how they cae at their transcription of "customers"... An
additional comma perhaps?
[/quote:3a02559135]
Probably. The reduced-size ya in "check-in" and "Wal-mart" is a hyphen,
so the reduced yu at the end of "customers" could well be a comma. |
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| Lee Sau Dan |
| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:01 pm |
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[quote:f05c78c252]"Paul" == Paul Davidson <paul@hiddenfortress.ten> writes:
[/quote:f05c78c252]
Paul> On 2006-06-14 17:38:09 +0900, "John Stephenson"
Paul> <newsgroups@linguistics.org.uk> said:
[quote:f05c78c252]X-No-Archive: yes Hello,
http://www.christophermayo.com/i/funkysign.jpg This website's
author says he took this pic in Hawaii, and that that Japanese
katakana script below the English is gibberish. A Japanese
friend, however, speculated that it might be Hawaiian, written
in katakana for Japanese tourists' benefit. Anyone know if this
is true? And if so, is writing Hawaiian in Japanese script
common? Thanks, John.
[/quote:f05c78c252]
Paul> John, a slightly closer look at the picture would have given
Paul> you your answer. The katakana bit has exactly the same
Paul> number of "words" and characters as the English, and the
Paul> same kana characters appear where the same letters appear ―
Paul> i.e. someone re-typed the English and set it in one of those
Paul> pseudo-katakana fonts, perhaps idiotically thinking that the
Paul> result would be more comprensible to Japanese speakers!
Paul> Surely this is one of the stupidest "translation" gaffs ever
Paul> by the tourism industry.
No. That's not the case. The katakana, when converted to Romaji,
reads:
chi ya ya no ho ya no ma ho ra chi fuyu he chi me ya
...
...
...
chi ya ya no ho to na ho ya
(I'm showing only the first and last lines.)
I can't see any relation with the English version.
Actually, you could have refuted your own hypothesis: Each
katakana/hiragana represents a syllable. There are only 3 syllables
in "attendent", but 9 katakana's on the last line. How come?
But you're right that the matching word-spacing of the two "language"
versions does look suspicious. Now, having a closer look at the first
and last words... see the resemblance? Also count the number of
*letters* in the English version, and compare with the number of
katakana's in the katakana version. Again, a perfect match. The
answer should now be obvious...
Exercise 1: Work out which katakana map to which English letter.
Exercise 2: Work out the name of the company, which is concealed in the
English version, but disclosed in the katakana version.
:)
--
Lee Sau Dan 李守敦 ~{@nJX6X~}
E-mail: danlee@informatik.uni-freiburg.de
Home page: http://www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~danlee |
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| Geoff |
| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:56 pm |
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Lee Sau Dan wrote:
[quote:b12629dc66]"Paul" == Paul Davidson <paul@hiddenfortress.ten> writes:
Paul> On 2006-06-14 17:38:09 +0900, "John Stephenson"
Paul> <newsgroups@linguistics.org.uk> said:
X-No-Archive: yes Hello,
http://www.christophermayo.com/i/funkysign.jpg This website's
author says he took this pic in Hawaii, and that that Japanese
katakana script below the English is gibberish. A Japanese
friend, however, speculated that it might be Hawaiian, written
in katakana for Japanese tourists' benefit. Anyone know if this
is true? And if so, is writing Hawaiian in Japanese script
common? Thanks, John.
Paul> John, a slightly closer look at the picture would have given
Paul> you your answer. The katakana bit has exactly the same
Paul> number of "words" and characters as the English, and the
Paul> same kana characters appear where the same letters appear ―
Paul> i.e. someone re-typed the English and set it in one of those
Paul> pseudo-katakana fonts, perhaps idiotically thinking that the
Paul> result would be more comprensible to Japanese speakers!
Paul> Surely this is one of the stupidest "translation" gaffs ever
Paul> by the tourism industry.
No. That's not the case. The katakana, when converted to Romaji,
reads:
chi ya ya no ho ya no ma ho ra chi fuyu he chi me ya
...
...
...
chi ya ya no ho to na ho ya
(I'm showing only the first and last lines.)
I can't see any relation with the English version.
Actually, you could have refuted your own hypothesis: Each
katakana/hiragana represents a syllable. There are only 3 syllables
in "attendent", but 9 katakana's on the last line. How come?
But you're right that the matching word-spacing of the two "language"
versions does look suspicious. Now, having a closer look at the first
and last words... see the resemblance? Also count the number of
*letters* in the English version, and compare with the number of
katakana's in the katakana version. Again, a perfect match. The
answer should now be obvious...
Exercise 1: Work out which katakana map to which English letter.
Exercise 2: Work out the name of the company, which is concealed in the
English version, but disclosed in the katakana version.
:)
[/quote:b12629dc66]
It is letter for letter in a different typeface only. Pretend its a
letter substitution code. |
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| Lee Sau Dan |
| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:24 am |
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[quote:5b703b9ff6]"Geoff" == Geoff <grw888@yahoo.com> writes:
The answer should now be obvious... Exercise 1: Work out which
katakana map to which English letter. Exercise 2: Work out the
name of the company, which is concealed in the English version,
but disclosed in the katakana version.
[/quote:5b703b9ff6]
Geoff> It is letter for letter in a different typeface
Geoff> only. Pretend its a letter substitution code.
This can be a simple exercise for beginning students in cryptography
and cryptology. :)
--
Lee Sau Dan 李守敦 ~{@nJX6X~}
E-mail: danlee@informatik.uni-freiburg.de
Home page: http://www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~danlee |
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| Paul Davidson |
| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:58 am |
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[quote:ad4dbc595b]
But you're right that the matching word-spacing of the two "language"
versions does look suspicious. Now, having a closer look at the first
and last words... see the resemblance?
THAT'S WHAT HE SAID.
[/quote:ad4dbc595b]
Perhaps Mr. Lee just likes taking the scenic route when he reasons
things out. :)
Paul |
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| Dylan Sung |
| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:35 pm |
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"Richard Herring" <junk@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:+N5xk$CxCSkEFwsY@baesystems.com...
[quote:803bd6dad8]
I ask again: is there a Chinese saying corresponding to "teaching one's
grandmother to suck eggs" ?
[/quote:803bd6dad8]
Look for 'grandma' in
http://bbs.putclub.com/index.php?showtopic=31738
Master Ban may not exactly be an old lady though.
Dyl. |
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| Richard Herring |
| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:50 am |
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In message <e6scic$rqb$1@nntp.aioe.org>, Dylan Sung
<dylanwhs.tsktsktsk@pacific.net.hk> writes
[quote:79a17408c1]
"Richard Herring" <junk@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:+N5xk$CxCSkEFwsY@baesystems.com...
I ask again: is there a Chinese saying corresponding to "teaching
one's grandmother to suck eggs" ?
Look for 'grandma' in
http://bbs.putclub.com/index.php?showtopic=31738
Master Ban may not exactly be an old lady though.
Thanks for the reference. What's its literal meaning?[/quote:79a17408c1]
(Sorry; perhaps it wasn't obvious that I don't actually know any Chinese
- I should have added "and if there is an equivalent saying, what's its
literal translation?")
--
Richard Herring |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:28 am |
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Richard Herring wrote:
[quote:988d5b2489]In message <e6scic$rqb$1@nntp.aioe.org>, Dylan Sung
dylanwhs.tsktsktsk@pacific.net.hk> writes
"Richard Herring" <junk@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:+N5xk$CxCSkEFwsY@baesystems.com...
I ask again: is there a Chinese saying corresponding to "teaching
one's grandmother to suck eggs" ?
Look for 'grandma' in
http://bbs.putclub.com/index.php?showtopic=31738
Master Ban may not exactly be an old lady though.
Thanks for the reference. What's its literal meaning?
(Sorry; perhaps it wasn't obvious that I don't actually know any Chinese
- I should have added "and if there is an equivalent saying, what's its
literal translation?")
[/quote:988d5b2489]
Well, I've been hoisted on my own petard! (Master Lu, rather than
Master Ban). Hehe!
Ban stands for Lu Ban 魯班 / 鲁班 who is said to be the patron of
artists and builders/crafts_people. He himself is said to have invented
many building principles used in Chinese architecture, so he is the
master architect and craftsman himself.
班門弄斧 / 班门弄斧 ban men nong fu
(at) Ban's door swinging ax
Basically it means that someone with inferior skill (waving an ax) in
front of the gates of the the master, Lu Ban.
Dyl. |
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| Richard Herring |
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:32 am |
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In message <1150471700.038466.192040@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com>,
dylanwhsung@googlemail.com writes
[quote:39c2acbeef]
Richard Herring wrote:
In message <e6scic$rqb$1@nntp.aioe.org>, Dylan Sung
dylanwhs.tsktsktsk@pacific.net.hk> writes
"Richard Herring" <junk@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:+N5xk$CxCSkEFwsY@baesystems.com...
I ask again: is there a Chinese saying corresponding to "teaching
one's grandmother to suck eggs" ?
Look for 'grandma' in
http://bbs.putclub.com/index.php?showtopic=31738
Master Ban may not exactly be an old lady though.
Thanks for the reference. What's its literal meaning?
(Sorry; perhaps it wasn't obvious that I don't actually know any Chinese
- I should have added "and if there is an equivalent saying, what's its
literal translation?")
Well, I've been hoisted on my own petard! (Master Lu, rather than
Master Ban). Hehe!
Ban stands for Lu Ban 0 >artists and builders/crafts_people. He himself is said to have invented
many building principles used in Chinese architecture, so he is the
master architect and craftsman himself.
0 >(at) Ban's door swinging ax
Basically it means that someone with inferior skill (waving an ax) in
front of the gates of the the master, Lu Ban.
Thanks. It gives "Careful with that axe, Eugene" a whole spectrum of new[/quote:39c2acbeef]
meanings ;-)
--
Richard Herring |
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