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| Science Forum Index » Languages Forum » English: Breaking before -l? |
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| Christian Weisgerber |
 Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:10 pm |
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Background: German, with a tin ear. I'm trying to get a grip on
English phonology.
In English, -r creates a particular environment for preceding vowels.
I'm wondering whether -l also affects vowels.
Exhibit 1: For years I've been stumbling over the simple word
"pal", which from many speakers on both sides of the Atlantic sounds
like /paUl/ to me. When there was a character "Val" in the UK
reality show _Space Cadets_, I kept hearing "vowel".
Exhibit 2: Lately I've noticed some Americans with unremarkable
accents pronounce -ul- ("ultimate", "sculpt") as what sounds like
/Ul/ to me, rather than the expected /Vl/.
What is going on there?
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de |
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| Brian M. Scott |
| Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:29 pm |
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On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:10:20 +0000 (UTC), Christian
Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote in
<news:e2rfgc$266v$1@kemoauc.mips.inka.de> in sci.lang:
[quote:2c50b0eb3b]Background: German, with a tin ear. I'm trying to get a grip on
English phonology.
In English, -r creates a particular environment for preceding vowels.
I'm wondering whether -l also affects vowels.
Exhibit 1: For years I've been stumbling over the simple word
"pal", which from many speakers on both sides of the Atlantic sounds
like /paUl/ to me. When there was a character "Val" in the UK
reality show _Space Cadets_, I kept hearing "vowel".
Exhibit 2: Lately I've noticed some Americans with unremarkable
accents pronounce -ul- ("ultimate", "sculpt") as what sounds like
/Ul/ to me, rather than the expected /Vl/.
What is going on there?
[/quote:2c50b0eb3b]
You're probably hearing a 'dark' (velarised) /l/.
Brian |
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| me |
| Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:46 pm |
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Christian Weisgerber wrote:
[quote:c7591861cc]Background: German, with a tin ear. I'm trying to get a grip on
English phonology.
In English, -r creates a particular environment for preceding vowels.
I'm wondering whether -l also affects vowels.
Exhibit 1: For years I've been stumbling over the simple word
"pal", which from many speakers on both sides of the Atlantic sounds
like /paUl/ to me. When there was a character "Val" in the UK
reality show _Space Cadets_, I kept hearing "vowel".
Exhibit 2: Lately I've noticed some Americans with unremarkable
accents pronounce -ul- ("ultimate", "sculpt") as what sounds like
/Ul/ to me, rather than the expected /Vl/.
What is going on there?
[/quote:c7591861cc]
I doubt that they pronounce it [Ul] like in American padres' pronunciation
of Latin "mors ultima ratio". They probably centralize the [V] a little and
make the l dark [l~]. |
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| Thomas Widmann |
| Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:54 am |
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naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) writes:
[quote:74bd77f5be]Background: German, with a tin ear. I'm trying to get a grip on
English phonology.
In English, -r creates a particular environment for preceding vowels.
I'm wondering whether -l also affects vowels.
Exhibit 1: For years I've been stumbling over the simple word
"pal", which from many speakers on both sides of the Atlantic sounds
like /paUl/ to me. When there was a character "Val" in the UK
reality show _Space Cadets_, I kept hearing "vowel".
[/quote:74bd77f5be]
In Glasgow, postvocalic /l/ is often vocalised, so that /pal/ is
pronounced [paw]. Is this what you're hearing?
/Thomas
--
Thomas Widmann twid@bibulus.org http://www.twid.bibulus.org
Flat 0/1, 57 Rose Street, Garnethill, Glasgow G3 6SF, Scotland, EU |
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| Christian Weisgerber |
| Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:58 am |
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Brian M. Scott <b.scott@csuohio.edu> wrote:
[quote:2d60d35c5e]You're probably hearing a 'dark' (velarised) /l/.
[/quote:2d60d35c5e]
Yes, I do. And for some speakers it's doing something to the
preceding vowels. Or so it seems to me.
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de |
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| Brian M. Scott |
| Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:45 pm |
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On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 16:58:45 +0000 (UTC), Christian
Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote in
<news:e2thk5$319o$1@kemoauc.mips.inka.de> in sci.lang:
[quote:21f305a704]Brian M. Scott <b.scott@csuohio.edu> wrote:
You're probably hearing a 'dark' (velarised) /l/.
Yes, I do. And for some speakers it's doing something to the
preceding vowels. Or so it seems to me.
[/quote:21f305a704]
I'd expect it to. In words like <ultimate>, for instance,
that tends to pull the vowel up and back in the general
direction of [U]. I wouldn't expect it to produce any
lip-rounding, though, so the result would generally still
differ from the [U] of <put>.
In <pal> and <Val>, on the other hand, the starting point is
further away from the velarising gesture, and you get an
off-glide in that same general direction.
Brian |
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