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| Bunn E. Rabbit |
 Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:27 am |
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RUSSIAN ASTROLOGER SUES NASA, TRIES TO STOP DEEP IMPACT MISSION
MosNews
http://www.mosnews.com/feature/2005/04/19/deepimpact.shtml
Published: Apr 24, 2005
Anna Arutunyan
Remember Deep Impact — that global disaster movie from the 1990’s when
the world’s finest astronauts embarked on a suicide mission to save
mankind from a comet heading straight for Earth? Now, imagine if the
producers introduced a new twist to the plot: besides the comet, NASA
is pitted against a Russian astrologist who sues the space agency
because destroying a comet would irrevocably harm her “system of
spiritual values”.
Well, we’re not in the direct trajectory of a comet (not yet anyway),
but a Deep Impact mission is underway, with a NASA spacecraft
scheduled to collide with the Tempel-1 comet on July 4, perhaps
blasting it to smithereens. That’s right, it’s Independence Day.
Now, the last thing NASA expected was a lawsuit from Russia.
But Russian astrologist Marina Bai gave it a try, and, according to
her lawyer Alexander Molokhov, it looks like she may just pull it off.
In a lawsuit she filed last month with the Presnensky district court
in Moscow, Bai is demanding that NASA call off its $311 million
operation, with the spacecraft already in its cruise phase. She also
wants 8.7 billion rubles (the ruble equivalent of the entire cost of
the mission) in compensation for moral damages.
“The actions of NASA infringe upon my system of spiritual and life
values, in particular on the values of every element of creation, upon
the unacceptability of barbarically interfering with the natural life
of the universe, and the violation of the natural balance of the
Universe,” Bai said in her claim.
NASA successfully launched its Deep Impact spacecraft — comprised of a
“fly-by” spacecraft and a smaller “impactor” carrying some 350
kilograms of copper — on Jan. 12 with the aim of studying the nature
of comets. The spacecraft’s “impactor” is expected to form a large
crater enabling scientists to look inside the comet. The scientific
objectives of the mission, according to NASA, seem innocent enough:
just measure the crater and examine the composition of its interior.
But then again, there’s always a larger agenda lurking in the
background — what would we do in the unlikely even of an emergency?
Bai is not the only astrologist worried about messing with the
Universe.
“Imagine leaving Moscow, then returning to find everything’s changed,”
says Vladimir Portnov, a physicist and a professional astrologist. “Of
course, everyday people will feel the implications of destroying a
comet.”
According to Portnov, even something as “minor” as comets play a role
in creating humanity’s psychic environment. By wantonly destroying a
comet, NASA will inevitably disrupt that environment — with the most
likely result being mass anxiety.
But can anyone stop NASA on these grounds? Bai’s initial lawsuit was
dismissed by the Presnensky court, but the Moscow City Court took up
the appeal and will rule following a hearing scheduled for May 6. And
lawyer Alexander Molokhov is convinced the case will move further.
“I have no doubt that the Moscow City Court will cancel the [previous
dismissal],” Molokhov told MosNews.
According to Russian law, a Russian citizen can file a claim with a
Russian court against a foreign organization that has representation
in Russia. And NASA, with an office in Moscow, is certainly eligible
as a plaintiff. “If a Houston court can examine a case involving a
Russian company [Yukos — MosNews], why can’t a Russian file a claim
against an American agency with a Russian court?”
But is there any chance in calling off the mission and getting a hefty
$311 million? Molokhov hopes the case will resonate widely in the
media. “There is a law against actions that can lead to damage or
death,” and in Russia, the case is being filed on those grounds. Also,
Molokhov plans to take the claim to the United States. In fact, he
says, there are a number of scientists there who would be glad to sue
NASA.
Indeed, the consequences of destroying a comet may include anything
from an asteroid shower to disruption to radio waves.
“I am not a scientist,” Molokhov says, “but experts say the impact
could disrupt the comet’s plasma trail, which could have an effect on
satellite communications.”
So, what does NASA think of the challenge? So far, Molokhov says that
the NASA Moscow Liaison Office has made no statements whatsoever
regarding Bai’s claim.
Meanwhile, Dolores Beasley, at the Deep Impact mission headquarters in
Washington, was very surprised to hear of the case. In a phone call,
she said she was not aware of any claims against NASA originating in
the States, and that generally the mission was “very popular”.
The Russian Space Agency, meanwhile, has also kept quiet about the
mission. A man who answered at the press office said he was “not
competent to answer any questions” regarding his agency’s position
over the NASA mission. Molokhov said that isn’t surprising — the
agency gets some financing from NASA and is not keen on criticism.
Expert opinion ranges from comments saying the mission is an innocent
endeavor, to outright lambasting. “I think such vandalism cannot be
justified even in the case of the asteroid-comet danger that people
talk so much about,” Nikolai Bochkarev of the Russian Academy for
Natural Science told the Itogi magazine.
So, what would an astrologist say about destroying a comet to save
humanity?
“I think it’s acceptable to try,” Vladimir Portnov says. Then he
smiles: “But I think it’s impossible.”
-------------------------------------
Fed up with illegal immigration?
_____
http://idexer.com
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/listarticles.cgi?117
http://www.saveourstate.org
http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frostyA.htm
http://www.americanpatrol.com/LINKS/LINKS.html
http://www.vdare.com/links.htm
http://www.stoptheinvasion.com/links/
_____
"Cosmic upheaval is not so moving as a little child pondering the death
of a sparrow in the corner of a barn." -Anouk Aimee, French Actor
_____
"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny", Aeschylus (525BC-456BC),
Agamemnon
_____
"I wear no Burka." - Mother Nature
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| yt56erd |
| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 11:44 am |
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Guest
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ring_theory wrote:
[quote:e013206a5e]A child could see that with the right resources. The internet has
vast
resources one could soak up knowlege unabated.
[/quote:e013206a5e]
yeah, why dont you then?
[quote:e013206a5e]Other than that, I spin rings. which is the closest thing to
reproducing the
orbital mechanism empirically known to date.
[/quote:e013206a5e]
stop talking crap.
[quote:e013206a5e]The simple act of spinning a ring challenges the perception of
perpetual motion, unity/over-unity, free-energy, and anti gravity.
In the
same regards the act also puts fact to quantum predictions, finishes
Maxwell's works, Applies faradays work's under ideal conditions, and
is the
vision einstein couldn't see. Puts certainty to Heisenberg's
Uncertainty
Principle. Upholds the laws of thermodynamics creating ideal
conditions for
conservation of energy to be applied in a mechanism.
[/quote:e013206a5e]
ZZZZZZZZ wake me up when you get down from your herbal high.
[quote:e013206a5e]In essence I'm the only "orbital mechanic" *actually* laying hands on
the
orbital. So untill quantum physics can figure a way to make a
microscopic
pit crew for the orbital, were going to have to rely on macroscopic
observations.
I guess I'm a skeptic's dream subject.
Step up! let's get it on.
Ring[/quote:e013206a5e] |
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| Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey B |
| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:52 pm |
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Guest
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On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 08:09:08 GMT, "ring_theory"
<ring_theory@yahoo.com> wrote in alt.fan.art-bell in message
<EuIae.15575$r53.12440@attbi_s21>:
[quote:0f2f9c34ef]I hope they win and nasa has to terminate the mission.
we shouldn't be messing with things we know little or nothing about.
[/quote:0f2f9c34ef]
Yeah, like medicine, chemistry, and physics! We should stop learning
about those things, too, and RIGHT NOW!
I would like to think you were just joking, but I don't.
--
V.G.
"i would blame them it they went on a holy jhiad and killed off all the infidels, would you?"
- AssLexa's "200+" alien-implanted IQ jumps the rails and crashes into a grade school, killing all inside.
Change pobox dot alaska to gci.
Sarcasm is my sword, Apathy is my shield. |
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| Gregory L. Hansen |
| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:59 pm |
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Guest
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In article <EuIae.15575$r53.12440@attbi_s21>,
ring_theory <ring_theory@yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote:6ea184468a]I hope they win and nasa has to terminate the mission.
we shouldn't be messing with things we know little or nothing about.
[/quote:6ea184468a]
I can't think of a better reason to be messing with it than that we know
little or nothing about it. Ignorance can be cured.
--
"There's nary an animal alive that can outrun a greased Scotsman!" --
Groundskeeper Willy |
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| Mark Martin |
| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 11:42 pm |
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ring_theory wrote:
[quote:48412c7f5f]knowing mans luck our gravity will pull it in. The whole point is
that
the possibilities are near infinite.
[/quote:48412c7f5f]
Saying that the possibilities are "near" infinite is equivalent to
saying that any one of those possibilities has a "near" infinitesimal
likelyhood, in which case a randomly determined re-direction to an
Earth-intersecting path is as unlikely as any other.
But fortunately there is plenty more than just plain zero understood
about orbital dynamics. That's why spacecraft can be precisely
navigated to rendesvous with planets, asteroids, comets, etc. in the
first place. More than zero can be confidently figured out ahead of
time as to the consequences of the probe's impact upon the comet
nucleus.
The velocity, energy & momentum of the copper impactor will be known
ahead of time. The velocity of the comet also will be known before
hand. Its mass, and therefore its energy & momentum, can be estimated
to within a useful approximation ahead of time due to data aquired in
previous comet explorations. Thus, a rational estimate is possible
before hand of the dynamical implications of the probe to the comet's
overall behavior. Your problem is that you know nothing, and so believe
in everything. Those who are more learned don't have to believe in
everything. They can afford to wittle down the possibilities to a
narrow few, and make progress from there.
And it's not possible for this mission to be a hastily thought out
spur of the moment thing, as you describe it. Interplanetary
expeditions are neither simple nor cheap. They require planning,
planning, and then some more planning. This takes time- YEARS. It takes
money, which in this case is taxpayer provided. This means that a
funding proposal had to go through due process. It went through layers
of review & scrutiny. The scientists had to painstakingly lay out the
mission objective in sufficient detail so as to be meaningful to the
review commitees. No one just handed them several hundred million
dollars and said, "Oh hell, just do whatever tickles yer fancy with
this bag of money." There was no "doh! here comes a comet let's blow
it up." You are imagining the ways of the world in a very juvenile
fashion.
-Mark Martin |
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| ring_theory |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:03 am |
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Guest
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"Gregory L. Hansen" <glhansen@steel.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote in message
news:d4hitf$9gm$1@rainier.uits.indiana.edu...
[quote:b9dda27b8d]In article <EuIae.15575$r53.12440@attbi_s21>,
ring_theory <ring_theory@yahoo.com> wrote:
I hope they win and nasa has to terminate the mission.
we shouldn't be messing with things we know little or nothing about.
I can't think of a better reason to be messing with it than that we know
little or nothing about it. Ignorance can be cured.
[/quote:b9dda27b8d]
I couldn't agree more but there are less destructive ways of going about it.
That would have less impact on the natural order of things.
Ring |
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| ring_theory |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:49 am |
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Guest
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"Mark Martin" <qed100@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1114407744.825638.108290@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
[quote:97b96b6981]
ring_theory wrote:
knowing mans luck our gravity will pull it in. The whole point is
that
the possibilities are near infinite.
Saying that the possibilities are "near" infinite is equivalent to
saying that any one of those possibilities has a "near" infinitesimal
likelyhood, in which case a randomly determined re-direction to an
Earth-intersecting path is as unlikely as any other.
But fortunately there is plenty more than just plain zero understood
about orbital dynamics. That's why spacecraft can be precisely
navigated to rendesvous with planets, asteroids, comets, etc. in the
first place. More than zero can be confidently figured out ahead of
time as to the consequences of the probe's impact upon the comet
nucleus.
The velocity, energy & momentum of the copper impactor will be known
ahead of time. The velocity of the comet also will be known before
hand. Its mass, and therefore its energy & momentum, can be estimated
to within a useful approximation ahead of time due to data aquired in
previous comet explorations. Thus, a rational estimate is possible
before hand of the dynamical implications of the probe to the comet's
overall behavior. Your problem is that you know nothing, and so believe
in everything. Those who are more learned don't have to believe in
everything. They can afford to wittle down the possibilities to a
narrow few, and make progress from there.
And it's not possible for this mission to be a hastily thought out
spur of the moment thing, as you describe it. Interplanetary
expeditions are neither simple nor cheap. They require planning,
planning, and then some more planning. This takes time- YEARS. It takes
money, which in this case is taxpayer provided. This means that a
funding proposal had to go through due process. It went through layers
of review & scrutiny. The scientists had to painstakingly lay out the
mission objective in sufficient detail so as to be meaningful to the
review commitees. No one just handed them several hundred million
dollars and said, "Oh hell, just do whatever tickles yer fancy with
this bag of money." There was no "doh! here comes a comet let's blow
it up." You are imagining the ways of the world in a very juvenile
fashion.
-Mark Martin
[/quote:97b96b6981]
I know how the funding is aquired. Lies in the form of projections.
"near" infinitesimal likelyhood" maybe but still all implications need to be
concidered. Deep impact is going to alter temple1's natural orbit there is
no doubt about that. it's the implication of the altering that concernes me
and all of mankind.
I hope for mankind that i'm wrong. But what if I'm right?
ring |
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| Wally Anglesea™ |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:52 am |
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Guest
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On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 06:49:33 GMT, "ring_theory"
<ring_theory@yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote:8fa7c9faeb]
"Mark Martin" <qed100@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1114407744.825638.108290@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
ring_theory wrote:
knowing mans luck our gravity will pull it in. The whole point is
that
the possibilities are near infinite.
Saying that the possibilities are "near" infinite is equivalent to
saying that any one of those possibilities has a "near" infinitesimal
likelyhood, in which case a randomly determined re-direction to an
Earth-intersecting path is as unlikely as any other.
But fortunately there is plenty more than just plain zero understood
about orbital dynamics. That's why spacecraft can be precisely
navigated to rendesvous with planets, asteroids, comets, etc. in the
first place. More than zero can be confidently figured out ahead of
time as to the consequences of the probe's impact upon the comet
nucleus.
The velocity, energy & momentum of the copper impactor will be known
ahead of time. The velocity of the comet also will be known before
hand. Its mass, and therefore its energy & momentum, can be estimated
to within a useful approximation ahead of time due to data aquired in
previous comet explorations. Thus, a rational estimate is possible
before hand of the dynamical implications of the probe to the comet's
overall behavior. Your problem is that you know nothing, and so believe
in everything. Those who are more learned don't have to believe in
everything. They can afford to wittle down the possibilities to a
narrow few, and make progress from there.
And it's not possible for this mission to be a hastily thought out
spur of the moment thing, as you describe it. Interplanetary
expeditions are neither simple nor cheap. They require planning,
planning, and then some more planning. This takes time- YEARS. It takes
money, which in this case is taxpayer provided. This means that a
funding proposal had to go through due process. It went through layers
of review & scrutiny. The scientists had to painstakingly lay out the
mission objective in sufficient detail so as to be meaningful to the
review commitees. No one just handed them several hundred million
dollars and said, "Oh hell, just do whatever tickles yer fancy with
this bag of money." There was no "doh! here comes a comet let's blow
it up." You are imagining the ways of the world in a very juvenile
fashion.
-Mark Martin
I know how the funding is aquired. Lies in the form of projections.
"near" infinitesimal likelyhood" maybe but still all implications need to be
concidered. Deep impact is going to alter temple1's natural orbit there is
no doubt about that. it's the implication of the altering that concernes me
and all of mankind.
[/quote:8fa7c9faeb]
Do you have even a clue as to what the change may be? ANY CLUE AT ALL?
Do you have a clue as to the changes that happen in a cometary orbit
as a result of outgassing as it heats up?
Do you know why comet ephemerides are updated?
Do you know the change that will likely be imparted by Jupiter on
Tempel1 during its next "encounter" with Jupiter, and how much that
will be ion comparison to the impact coming up in July?
[quote:8fa7c9faeb]
I hope for mankind that i'm wrong. But what if I'm right?
[/quote:8fa7c9faeb]
You aren't right. It's that simple, chicken little.
--
Maj. General, Fanatic Legions.
Commander of Southern Hemisphere Forces.
Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm |
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| T Wake |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:23 am |
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Guest
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"ring_theory" <ring_theory@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:FD%ae.18209$NU4.5696@attbi_s22...
[quote:0848ac9bd7]
snip
I just hope my speculations are wrong!
[/quote:0848ac9bd7]
That's ok then. |
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| T Wake |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:26 am |
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Guest
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"ring_theory" <ring_theory@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0J_ae.18147$NU4.546@attbi_s22...
[quote:4e5c488b16]
No it's not wrong for a geologist to break open a rock.
However there is definately something ultimately wrong with blowing chunks
out of comets before concidering all possible implications.
[/quote:4e5c488b16]
How do you know they havent?
<SNIP>
[quote:4e5c488b16]knowing mans luck our gravity will pull it in. The whole point is that
the possibilities are near infinite.
[/quote:4e5c488b16]
So the probability of any 1 particular possibility happening is so small it
becomes irrelevant. I don't get what you are worried about. If the
possibility of a "bad thing" happening is 1/(near)infinity - there is
nothing to fear. |
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| ring_theory |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:44 am |
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Guest
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"T Wake" <taswakeAt@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aN-dnYaW7tsrKvHfRVnyvg@pipex.net...
[quote:9ffbd5475a]
"ring_theory" <ring_theory@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0J_ae.18147$NU4.546@attbi_s22...
No it's not wrong for a geologist to break open a rock.
However there is definately something ultimately wrong with blowing
chunks
out of comets before concidering all possible implications.
How do you know they havent?
SNIP
knowing mans luck our gravity will pull it in. The whole point is that
the possibilities are near infinite.
So the probability of any 1 particular possibility happening is so small
it
becomes irrelevant. I don't get what you are worried about. If the
possibility of a "bad thing" happening is 1/(near)infinity - there is
nothing to fear.
[/quote:9ffbd5475a]
Nothing to fear??
No there is alot to fear. Dispite what you think bad things do happen. |
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| ring_theory |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:58 am |
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Guest
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"Wally AngleseaT >" <"<wanglese"@spammersbigpondareparasites.net.au> wrote
in message news:eobp61pr9cni7utds6uqfan37jd22e5ree@4ax.com...
[quote:2413f1bdce]On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 06:49:33 GMT, "ring_theory"
ring_theory@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Mark Martin" <qed100@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1114407744.825638.108290@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
ring_theory wrote:
knowing mans luck our gravity will pull it in. The whole point is
that
the possibilities are near infinite.
Saying that the possibilities are "near" infinite is equivalent to
saying that any one of those possibilities has a "near" infinitesimal
likelyhood, in which case a randomly determined re-direction to an
Earth-intersecting path is as unlikely as any other.
But fortunately there is plenty more than just plain zero understood
about orbital dynamics. That's why spacecraft can be precisely
navigated to rendesvous with planets, asteroids, comets, etc. in the
first place. More than zero can be confidently figured out ahead of
time as to the consequences of the probe's impact upon the comet
nucleus.
The velocity, energy & momentum of the copper impactor will be known
ahead of time. The velocity of the comet also will be known before
hand. Its mass, and therefore its energy & momentum, can be estimated
to within a useful approximation ahead of time due to data aquired in
previous comet explorations. Thus, a rational estimate is possible
before hand of the dynamical implications of the probe to the comet's
overall behavior. Your problem is that you know nothing, and so believe
in everything. Those who are more learned don't have to believe in
everything. They can afford to wittle down the possibilities to a
narrow few, and make progress from there.
And it's not possible for this mission to be a hastily thought out
spur of the moment thing, as you describe it. Interplanetary
expeditions are neither simple nor cheap. They require planning,
planning, and then some more planning. This takes time- YEARS. It takes
money, which in this case is taxpayer provided. This means that a
funding proposal had to go through due process. It went through layers
of review & scrutiny. The scientists had to painstakingly lay out the
mission objective in sufficient detail so as to be meaningful to the
review commitees. No one just handed them several hundred million
dollars and said, "Oh hell, just do whatever tickles yer fancy with
this bag of money." There was no "doh! here comes a comet let's blow
it up." You are imagining the ways of the world in a very juvenile
fashion.
-Mark Martin
I know how the funding is aquired. Lies in the form of projections.
"near" infinitesimal likelyhood" maybe but still all implications need to
be
concidered. Deep impact is going to alter temple1's natural orbit there
is
no doubt about that. it's the implication of the altering that concernes
me
and all of mankind.
Do you have even a clue as to what the change may be? ANY CLUE AT ALL?
[/quote:2413f1bdce]
What difference does it make there *is* going to be a change. which wouldn't
happen if we don't blow chunks out of the damned thing.
[quote:2413f1bdce]
Do you have a clue as to the changes that happen in a cometary orbit
as a result of outgassing as it heats up?
[/quote:2413f1bdce]
the same changes that have been happening a long time if we don't
mess with it.
[quote:2413f1bdce]
Do you know why comet ephemerides are updated?
[/quote:2413f1bdce]
So we can note the changes after we try to blow chunks out of it?
[quote:2413f1bdce]
Do you know the change that will likely be imparted by Jupiter on
Tempel1 during its next "encounter" with Jupiter, and how much that
will be ion comparison to the impact coming up in July?
[/quote:2413f1bdce]
If we don't mess with it it would be the same as it has been for many years.
If we do mess with it there is no guarantee it will encounter jupiter again.
[quote:2413f1bdce]
I hope for mankind that i'm wrong. But what if I'm right?
You aren't right. It's that simple, chicken little.
Bah![/quote:2413f1bdce]
[quote:2413f1bdce]
--
Maj. General, Fanatic Legions.
Commander of Southern Hemisphere Forces.
Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm[/quote:2413f1bdce] |
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| bz |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:00 am |
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Guest
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"ring_theory" <ring_theory@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1q0be.18254$NU4.9233
@attbi_s22:
[quote:dadaa72cd0]I hope for mankind that i'm wrong. But what if I'm right?
[/quote:dadaa72cd0]
Ask Cassandra.
--
bz
please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.
bz+sp@ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap |
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| T Wake |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:21 am |
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Guest
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"ring_theory" <ring_theory@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:VZ2be.18024$r53.15527@attbi_s21...
<snip>
[quote:7010b2923a]Nothing to fear??
No there is alot to fear. Dispite what you think bad things do happen.
[/quote:7010b2923a]
Generally because they have a probability >1/(almost)infinity |
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| ring_theory |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:39 am |
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Guest
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"T Wake" <taswakeAt@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mPSdnRjMFt3VWPHfRVnyig@pipex.net...
[quote:03f6aa3211]
"ring_theory" <ring_theory@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:VZ2be.18024$r53.15527@attbi_s21...
snip
Nothing to fear??
No there is alot to fear. Dispite what you think bad things do happen.
Generally because they have a probability >1/(almost)infinity
[/quote:03f6aa3211]
Isn't that the same odds they gave the last shuttle??
"Nothing that happens during launch will effect re-entry"!
Of course there was NO need for a spacewalk or inspection.
Bah!
It could have been prevented..
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