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Jack Linthicum...
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:08 am
 
Mystery missile caught on video near L.A.
Trail streaks across Southern California sky; Pentagon and Navy
baffled

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[quote]a strange and somewhat disturbing story developing in
california with a missile was fired off the coast last night and[/quote]
nobody seems to know who fired it or why? and this seems like a bad
plot twist in the war games ?

[quote]there was a display in the pacific ocean , just off the
coast there of los angeles , a cbs traffic helicopter at rush hour[/quote]
last night caught the image just before dawn . now, over here at the
pentagon, senior military and pentagon officials are scrambling to
find out what exactly this is. what it can't be, it cannot be a
planned u.s. military launch by any stretch of the military, and they
would not do it in a populated area, and the other possibility could
be it was a screw up, that somebody punched the wrong button. if
that's the case, the officials have not gotten any explanations yet,
and another possibility is that it would be suffocated but amateur
rocket rocketeers of some kind pf but nobody here in the pentagon has
any clear idea yet what it is, and the words of one senior pentagon
official, this is bizarre.

[quote]for 12 hours removed, from when it was spotted, it was
rush hour, and let's say we are almost 12 hours removed, at this[/quote]
point, you would assume every missile that is in the united states
military custody would have been accounted for now, correct?

[quote]yeah, that's what makes it so strange. it does appear to
make it a sizeable missile with a substantial rocket power of some[/quote]
kind, nobody in the u.s. military is owning up to it quite yet. i am
not saying this is what happened. anytime there is this kind of
incident, the military goes into a defensive crouch to get all the
information, and cross every t and dot every i to make sure they get
the information correct before they pass it up the chain. but even
military officials here in the pentagon say that doesn't appear likely
here as of yet. we will have to wait and see what the military comes
up with so far.

[quote]do they know it was ground based or if it was off the
coast, but was it off an island off the coast or a boat, or they don't[/quote]
have the determination yet?

[quote]they don't. it appears to have come from over the water,
which could have been from a boat or from a submarine, or from a low-[/quote]
flying aircraft, i guess that's possible, or it was somewhat near the
island of catalina. i think anybody setting up a rocket of that size
would have been noticed well before they were able to launch it. so
it's either a boat or an airplane, and so far nobody has any clues
that they are sharing with us.

[quote]busier day than you expected. we'll check back in by
[/quote]
Show transcript


LOS ANGELES A mysterious "missile" streaked across the sky off the
Southern California coast Monday night and was caught on video by a
local TV station's helicopter camera.

KCBS reportedthe trail was visible from Los Angeles. The station's
helicopter crew described the missile's location as 35 miles out to
sea north of Catalina Island.

Senior Pentagon and Navy officials told NBC News that they did not
know who launched the missile.


A senior official told NBC News it was "possible" that the incident
was an accidental launch by the military. However, the Navy, Air Force
and Missile Defense Agency said they had no information to indicate
they were involved, NBC News reported.

Military officials told said that a planned military exercise would
not have been held that close to Los Angeles.

Officials were also examining the possibility it was a "commercial
launch of some kind" or that amateurs had built a device capable of
creating such a plume, NBC News reported.

A Navy spokesman told local CBS station KFMB that there was no Navy
activity reported in that region Monday night, and that it was not the
Navy's missile.

KCBS, which originally reported the incident, interviewed former U.S.
Ambassador to NATO Robert Ellsworth after showing him the video.

"It could be a test firing of an intercontinental ballistic missile
from a submarine to demonstrate, mainly to Asia, that we can do that,"
he told the TV station, emphasizing that he was purely speculating.

He said that it would be best to wait for a definitive clarification
from the military.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40087187/ns/us_news-security/
 
Derek Lyons...
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:22 pm
 
Mark Borgerson <mborgerson at (no spam) comcast.net> wrote:

[quote]The contrail explanation raises a number of issues:

1. the trail appears to start below the cloud level---where contrails
are less likely to form. If it was a contrail, was the altitude
anomalously low? If not, why is it the only visible contrail?
[/quote]
I see contrails all the time below cloud level. So, no anomaly there.
Why is it the only visible contrail? It's the only aircraft out
there.

[quote]2. If it was a very long horizontal trail, the rate at which it
grows would require a VERY fast moving aircraft. Did anyone on
Catalina report a sonic boom?
[/quote]
It's moving much slower than a missile, and no faster than the average
airline. So again, no anomaly.

[quote]3. The trail is wider at the start and gets narrower----as you
would expect from a rocket going up. For the same to happen with
a horizontal path, the plane would have to be moving away from you--
which doesn't appear to be the the case.
[/quote]
Um, ever seen an actual contrail? They do spread out, sometimes
pretty fast. So no anomaly there. The geometry of the encounter is
very difficult to discern, so be careful of what 'appears' to be true.

[quote]4. It should be possible to determine whether the object was
accelerating or flying at a nearly-constant velocity by
measuring the change in apparent position with time.
[/quote]
Even a fairly casual look shows it to be more-or-less traveling at the
same speed. (Something I should not have to point out that rockets
don't do.)

[quote]4. If it was an aircraft, it should appear on LAX or somebody
else's traffic control radar unless it is a stealth design and
flying in a busy area without a transponder. Has any news organization
checked with the FAA? (Do those radar systems keep backup tapes or
disks?)
[/quote]
The news organizations don't appear to have checked with anyone other
than the DoD and each other.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
 
scott s....
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:47 pm
 
Jim Yanik <jyanik at (no spam) abuse.gov> wrote in
news:Xns9E2C947DE3D8Djyaniklocalnetcom at (no spam) 216.168.3.44:

[quote]
I think ordinary FAA TC radars use transponders,few use actual skin-
returns.
(although you would think that ADIZ radars would have been watching
the area...makes one wonder just how open/defenseless/unguarded our
coasts are.)
[/quote]

I suppose SOCAL APP (TRACON) would use ASR-11 system which has both
primary and secondary detection radars. It isn't the simplest airspace
around, that's for sure.
http://img87.imageshack.us/i/socalsec.jpg/


scott s.
..
 
Derek Lyons...
Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:01 pm
 
Mark Borgerson <mborgerson at (no spam) comcast.net> wrote:

[quote]In article <4cdbe163.47358593 at (no spam) news.supernews.com>, fairwater at (no spam) gmail.com
says...

4. It should be possible to determine whether the object was
accelerating or flying at a nearly-constant velocity by
measuring the change in apparent position with time.

Even a fairly casual look shows it to be more-or-less traveling at the
same speed. (Something I should not have to point out that rockets
don't do.)

Perhaps true for ICBMs. However, many other types of rockets reach
a speed where the thrust is balanced by the aerodynamic drag and
the speed does not increase. That is probably the case for many
anti-aircraft missiles at lower altitudes and for air-to-air
missiles.
[/quote]
Neither of which would leave a contrail that large. So we can discard
that hypothesis. Nor would an leave a trail stretching from horizon
to horizon.

Nor does the contrail exhibit the 'frozen lighting' effect, it's
practically laser straight - which means a constant altitude.

So having excluded rockets from possibility, that leaves air
breathers. Examing the size of the contrail, we can pretty much
discard all cruise missiles and smaller (bizjet) passenger jets.

Which leaves us with one thing in the box - the one thing you'd
*expect* to find in that area leaving a contrail. A big passenger
jet.

When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.

[quote]I'm not sure how you can determine that it was traveling at a
constant speed. If it was truly traveling upward, an increasing
speed would show up as a nearly constant angular rate.
[/quote]
However the problem is bounded by the lack of 'frozen lighting', the
object wasn't traveling upward. It was in more-or-less level flight.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
 
Jim Watt...
Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:01 pm
 
Its obvious

It was not a plane

Certainly not a bird

so it must have been

SUPERMAN
--
Jim Watt
http://www.gibnet.com
 
Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds...
Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:09 pm
 
In article <4ce03ba7.136003000 at (no spam) news.supernews.com>,
fairwater at (no spam) gmail.com (Derek Lyons) wrote:

[quote]Which leaves us with one thing in the box - the one thing you'd
*expect* to find in that area leaving a contrail. A big passenger
jet.

When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.
[/quote]
I'm not saying it wasn't a big passenger jet, but how is it that even
considering all the variables involved, that this is the first report of such an
event. That would seem to defy probability
 
Arved Sandstrom...
Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 5:06 pm
 
Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
[quote]In article <4ce03ba7.136003000 at (no spam) news.supernews.com>,
fairwater at (no spam) gmail.com (Derek Lyons) wrote:

Which leaves us with one thing in the box - the one thing you'd
*expect* to find in that area leaving a contrail. A big passenger
jet.

When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.

I'm not saying it wasn't a big passenger jet, but how is it that even
considering all the variables involved, that this is the first report
of such an event. That would seem to defy probability
[/quote]
Why is it a first report? Any person near aircraft flight paths has seen
dozens, hundreds, thousands or tens of thousands of contrails, depending on
their age and where they live. They've seen them from all manner of
aircraft, at various altitudes, *from* various altitudes, at various times
of day. *I* have seen some plane contrails that looked much like this, and
I'm sure a few million other people have too. But I don't videotape the
damned things, and I don't normally comment on them to others when I've seen
them...they are too ordinary.

The only thing unusual about this event is that it was considered to be
unusual.

AHS
--
Hanging one scoundrel, it appears, does not deter the next. Well, what
of it? The first one is at least disposed of. -- H.L. Mencken
 
Derek Lyons...
Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:40 pm
 
"Arved Sandstrom" <dcest61 at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:

[quote]The only thing unusual about this event is that it was considered to be
unusual.
[/quote]
The power of the media on an otherwise slow news day coupled with
'nets propensity for spreading mass hysteria at the slightest pretext.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
 
Fred J. McCall...
Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:44 pm
 
Jim Watt <jimwatt at (no spam) aol.no_way> wrote:

[quote]Its obvious

It was not a plane

Certainly not a bird

so it must have been

SUPERMAN

[/quote]
It's a bird.

It's a plane.

It's a FROG!

A frog?

Not plane, nor bird, nor even frog.
Just little ole me. Underdog.

--
"The noir hero is a knight in blood-caked armor. He's dirty and
he does his best to deny that he's a hero the whole time."
-- Frank Miller
 
Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds...
Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:52 pm
 
In article <ENZCo.13952$E64.5678 at (no spam) newsfe11.iad>,
"Arved Sandstrom" <dcest61 at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:

[quote]Why is it a first report? Any person near aircraft flight paths has seen
dozens, hundreds, thousands or tens of thousands of contrails, depending on
their age and where they live. They've seen them from all manner of
aircraft, at various altitudes, *from* various altitudes, at various times
of day. *I* have seen some plane contrails that looked much like this, and
I'm sure a few million other people have too. But I don't videotape the
damned things, and I don't normally comment on them to others when I've seen
them...they are too ordinary.

The only thing unusual about this event is that it was considered to be
unusual.
[/quote]
Yet none of the many aviation experts they interviewed even hinted at previous
occurrences.
 
 
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