Main Page | Report Page

 

  Science Forum Index » Space Forum » Does anyone want Shuttle Discovery?...

Author Message
Pat Flannery...
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:54 am
 
Smithsonian Air And Space Museum wants it, but can it afford it?:
http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-110110b.html

Pat
 
Rick Jones...
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:54 am
 
In sci.space.history Damon Hill <damon1SIX1 at (no spam) comcast.netnet> wrote:
[quote]Huh. They've had Enterprise for years and years! Mostly hidden
away in a storage hanger.
[/quote]
That was rectified:

http://www.nasm.si.edu/museum/udvarhazy/articles/space_opening.cfm

rick jones
--
Wisdom Teeth are impacted, people are affected by the effects of events.
these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... Smile
feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...
 
Damon Hill...
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:30 am
 
Pat Flannery <flanner at (no spam) daktel.com> wrote in
news:f4ednQxpuvyShU3RnZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d at (no spam) posted.northdakotatelephone:

[quote]Smithsonian Air And Space Museum wants it, but can it afford it?:
http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-110110b.html

Pat

[/quote]
Huh. They've had Enterprise for years and years! Mostly hidden
away in a storage hanger.

Give Discovery to the aerospace museum in Seattle. We'll give her a
place of honor.

--Damon
 
Chris...
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:07 pm
 
On Nov 2, 1:30 pm, Damon Hill <damon1S... at (no spam) comcast.netnet> wrote:

[quote]Huh.  They've had Enterprise for years and years!  Mostly hidden
away in a storage hanger.
[/quote]
Open to the public since 2003.

[quote]Give Discovery to the aerospace museum in Seattle.  We'll give her a
place of honor.
[/quote]
The people I've talked to here in DC thought Seattle was the most
likely to get an OV of all the non-government museums, but they were
not thrilled with the idea of a non-government museum getting a
orbiter (no decisions seem to have been made). The basic problem is
that they are forever. Once the SCA retires, there will be essentially
no way to move them around, so they need to be at a museum that will
be able to take good care of them 100 years from now (yes, this is the
timeline that NASA and NASM are using). There is simply no guarantee
that Boeing and Microsoft will still be raining dollars on the Museum
of Flight seven decades from now.

Look at the plight of the USS Olympia as an example of what can happen
to private museums saddled with old, expensive to maintain, priceless
artifacts. NASA and NASM have an obligation to try and prevent that,
which is why the general expectation is that public museums are going
to win. And that makes budget issues something of a shell game.
Whether NASM or NASA (at least one SFC is probably going to get one)
or the USAF (NMUSAF is probably going to get one) pays for it, it will
pretty much have to come from Congress, so whomever gets the money to
pay for it, it will be paid for.

Chris Manteuffel
 
Pat Flannery...
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:05 pm
 
On 11/2/2010 9:01 AM, Rick Jones wrote:
[quote]In sci.space.history Damon Hill<damon1SIX1 at (no spam) comcast.netnet> wrote:
Huh. They've had Enterprise for years and years! Mostly hidden
away in a storage hanger.

That was rectified:

http://www.nasm.si.edu/museum/udvarhazy/articles/space_opening.cfm
[/quote]
If they replace Enterprise with Discovery over there, then what to do
with Enterprise? I imagine it should be at Edwards where it did its
glide tests, but that's more moving expense still.
What would be interesting to do to Enterprise is remove the skin off
half of it, so that visitors could examine the interior structure.
A cutaway Spacelab in the cargo bay would be a nice touch also.
You would have to get some surplus engines to put back into it, but NASA
wasn't having much luck even trying to give those away to museums for
shipping costs (a cutaway SSME would be very interesting to look at due
to its internal complexity).

Pat
 
Pat Flannery...
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:10 pm
 
On 11/2/2010 2:07 PM, Chris wrote:
[quote]
The people I've talked to here in DC thought Seattle was the most
likely to get an OV of all the non-government museums, but they were
not thrilled with the idea of a non-government museum getting a
orbiter (no decisions seem to have been made). The basic problem is
that they are forever. Once the SCA retires, there will be essentially
no way to move them around, so they need to be at a museum that will
be able to take good care of them 100 years from now (yes, this is the
timeline that NASA and NASM are using). There is simply no guarantee
that Boeing and Microsoft will still be raining dollars on the Museum
of Flight seven decades from now.
[/quote]
The thing is, we only need keep _one_ intact and in good repair for
historical purposes, not all three surviving orbiters and Enterprise.
Note that we didn't keep the first fully streamlined nuclear attack
submarine (SSN-585 Skipjack) or our first Polaris missile sub (SSBN-598
George Washington) fully intact at all, even though they were both very
historically significant; both were scrapped, except for George
Washington's sail.
The British unceremoniously scrapped one of the most historically
significant warships of all time - HMS Dreadnought.

[quote]Look at the plight of the USS Olympia as an example of what can happen
to private museums saddled with old, expensive to maintain, priceless
artifacts.
[/quote]
You think that's bad, look what happened to USS Oregon; Oregon gave it
back for service in the US Navy during WWI as a patriotic gesture, and
at the conclusion of the war the Navy said it was theirs to do whatever
they wanted to with it, and instead of returning it to Oregon, scrapped it.
They could save a lot of expense on upkeep of Olympia if they followed
the lead of what the Japanese did with the flagship of the imperial
fleet at the battle of the Tsushima Straits in 1905; they set the
battleship IJN Mikasa in concrete up to the waterline, thereby
eliminating the need to keep her hull watertight:
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNJAP_6-40_EOC_Mikasa_1_pic.jpg

Pat
 
Pat Flannery...
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:23 pm
 
On 11/2/2010 3:44 PM, Invid Fan wrote:
[quote]In article
0b2ca702-73ba-43e3-a35f-f3c4100c1c2c at (no spam) 26g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>,
Chris<cmanteuf at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

Look at the plight of the USS Olympia as an example of what can happen
to private museums saddled with old, expensive to maintain, priceless
artifacts.

You made me look up the ship on Wiki. Damn... I've been on her twice,
once as a kid and again a couple years ago when I was in Philadelphia
for the sci fi Worldcon, and the idea of the Olympia being sold for
scrap... I wonder if there's any way to get her to Buffalo's Naval Park.
[/quote]
The place she should go is Washington state; I assume she's named after
Olympia, Washington.
The old Revell model of the ship is a real ball to build BTW, with
really good parts fit, and a surprising degree of detail for a model of
that vintage.
http://modelshipworld.com/phpBB2/files/revell_uss_olympia_296.jpg
I don't know if it's still the case, but Olympia's officer's wardroom
used to be the official headquarters for the Navy "Blue Angels"
aerobatic team.

Pat
 
Doug Freyburger...
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:08 am
 
Pat Flannery wrote:
[quote]Invid Fan wrote:
Chris<cmanteuf at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

Look at the plight of the USS Olympia as an example of what can happen
to private museums saddled with old, expensive to maintain, priceless
artifacts.
[/quote]
Olympia is one of the few remaining pre-Dreadnought battleships. A
classic.

[quote]You made me look up the ship on Wiki. Damn... I've been on her twice,
once as a kid and again a couple years ago when I was in Philadelphia
for the sci fi Worldcon, and the idea of the Olympia being sold for
scrap... I wonder if there's any way to get her to Buffalo's Naval Park.

The place she should go is Washington state; I assume she's named after
Olympia, Washington.
[/quote]
The advantage of Buffalo is they have a very active naval museum with a
good maintenance program. If it went to Bremerton not too far from
Olympia it would have a large Navy base to help out with maintenance. I
figure that the small port at Olympia would end up having it languish.
 
Jim Davis...
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:54 am
 
Doug Freyburger wrote:

[quote]Olympia is one of the few remaining pre-Dreadnought battleships. A
classic.
[/quote]
Olympia is/was a cruiser, not a battleship. Hence her city name.

Jim Davis
 
hallerb at (no spam) aol.com...
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:20 pm
 
On Nov 3, 1:54 pm, Jim Davis <jimdav... at (no spam) earthlink.net> wrote:
[quote]Doug Freyburger wrote:
Olympia is one of the few remaining pre-Dreadnought battleships.  A
classic.

Olympia is/was a cruiser, not a battleship. Hence her city name.

Jim Davis
[/quote]
The shuttles ferry aircraft should be preserved for future operations
if EVER needed.

Let each museum that gets a orbiter pay X dollars into a insurance
fund to protect the orbiters.

Please lets NOT leave them out in the salt air to rot like we did with
the space certified apollo hardware.

that was a crime:(
 
Pat Flannery...
Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:34 am
 
On 11/3/2010 8:29 AM, Invid Fan wrote:


[quote]Sure, but construction started under Buffalo's Grover Cleveland and we
killed McKinley, so there's a connection there too Smile Hell, maybe fresh
water would be better for her as well.
[/quote]
She'd ride deeper in fresh water than in salt water due to the lower
density, but at least you wouldn't have to worry about barnacles all
over the bottom. Wink I still think the concrete idea is best, as that
solves all the hull deterioration problems permanently, and makes access
to the ship easy also.
For a really strange way to display a naval vessel, check out the
experimental sub Albacore that had our first teardrop hull shape:
http://ussalbacore.org/html/albacore_park.html
Odd little bit of Trivia regarding HMS Dreadnought BTW; she was assigned
to second line service in WWI, and managed to unintentionally revenge
the sinking of the cruisers Aboukir, Cressy, and Hogue when she rammed
and sank the U-29, captained by Otto Weddigen - who had commanded U-9
when she sank those three warships on September 22, 1914.

Pat
 
hallerb at (no spam) aol.com...
Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:18 pm
 
On Nov 6, 9:12 pm, "Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)"
<mooregr_delet3t... at (no spam) greenms.com> wrote:
[quote]hall... at (no spam) aol.com wrote:
On Nov 3, 1:54 pm, Jim Davis <jimdav... at (no spam) earthlink.net> wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:
Olympia is one of the few remaining pre-Dreadnought battleships. A
classic.

Olympia is/was a cruiser, not a battleship. Hence her city name.

Jim Davis

The shuttles ferry aircraft should be preserved for future operations
if EVER needed.

Far too expensive and a waste of money.

No one is calling to move the Saturn Vs around.  Once the shuttles land for
the last time it's almost certainly the last time they'll ever be moved by
air.



Let each museum that gets a orbiter pay X dollars into a insurance
fund to protect the orbiters.

Please lets NOT leave them out in the salt air to rot like we did with
the space certified apollo hardware.

that was a crime:(

--
Greg Moore
Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC.
[/quote]
by future operations i mean moving shuttles from one museum to
another.....

the ferry aircraft should be preserved in some way for this reason
 
Greg D. Moore (Strider)...
Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:12 pm
 
hallerb at (no spam) aol.com wrote:
[quote]On Nov 3, 1:54 pm, Jim Davis <jimdav... at (no spam) earthlink.net> wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:
Olympia is one of the few remaining pre-Dreadnought battleships. A
classic.

Olympia is/was a cruiser, not a battleship. Hence her city name.

Jim Davis

The shuttles ferry aircraft should be preserved for future operations
if EVER needed.
[/quote]
Far too expensive and a waste of money.

No one is calling to move the Saturn Vs around. Once the shuttles land for
the last time it's almost certainly the last time they'll ever be moved by
air.

[quote]
Let each museum that gets a orbiter pay X dollars into a insurance
fund to protect the orbiters.

Please lets NOT leave them out in the salt air to rot like we did with
the space certified apollo hardware.

that was a crime:(
[/quote]
--
Greg Moore
Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC.
 
Greg D. Moore (Strider)...
Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:47 pm
 
hallerb at (no spam) aol.com wrote:
[quote]On Nov 6, 9:12 pm, "Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)"
mooregr_delet3t... at (no spam) greenms.com> wrote:
hall... at (no spam) aol.com wrote:
On Nov 3, 1:54 pm, Jim Davis <jimdav... at (no spam) earthlink.net> wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:
Olympia is one of the few remaining pre-Dreadnought battleships. A
classic.

Olympia is/was a cruiser, not a battleship. Hence her city name.

Jim Davis

The shuttles ferry aircraft should be preserved for future
operations if EVER needed.

Far too expensive and a waste of money.

No one is calling to move the Saturn Vs around. Once the shuttles
land for the last time it's almost certainly the last time they'll
ever be moved by air.



Let each museum that gets a orbiter pay X dollars into a insurance
fund to protect the orbiters.

Please lets NOT leave them out in the salt air to rot like we did
with the space certified apollo hardware.

that was a crime:(

--
Greg Moore
Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC.

by future operations i mean moving shuttles from one museum to
another.....
[/quote]
I know what you meant. And my point is still the same. It's NOT going to
happen.

[quote]
the ferry aircraft should be preserved in some way for this reason
[/quote]
--
Greg Moore
Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC.
 
Brian Thorn...
Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:49 pm
 
On Sat, 6 Nov 2010 19:18:07 -0700 (PDT), "hallerb at (no spam) aol.com"
<hallerb at (no spam) aol.com> wrote:


[quote]by future operations i mean moving shuttles from one museum to
another.....
[/quote]
If desired, they'll have to find a way to move them overland or by sea
(barge, like how the Spruce Goose was moved.)

[quote]the ferry aircraft should be preserved in some way for this reason
[/quote]
It isn't so much the aircraft as the expertise to operate it and the
mating devices. There are not enough missions for the aircraft and
crews to justify keeping them around indefinitely.

It would probably be cheaper to just remove lightpoles and overhead
wires from the necessary roads (already done for some oversized loads
anyway) and tow one overland 20 years from now than to keep the SCA
and its crew expertise for those 20 years.


Brian
 
 
Page 1 of 2    Goto page 1, 2  Next
All times are GMT - 5 Hours
The time now is Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:11 pm