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| Ulysses at Langdale Tarn... |
 Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:05 am |
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Guest
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Krauthammer versus Obama on Afghanistan
Source: Columnist Charles Krauthammer, C.C. CALLER-TIMES, 11-1-09
Krauthammer’s "Three Envelopes" story comes not from Moscow but from
British 20th C political
lore. The incoming PM finds three envelopes in the top drawer of the
desk of the outgoing PM.
The top envelope says "Open this at the start of your first crisis."
The note inside says "Blame
your predecessor ." The second envelope says "Open me at the start of
your second crisis." The
note inside reads "Reshuffle your cabinet." The note in the third
envelope says " Prepare three
envelopes." It’s the kind of story that applies only to a
democracy.
Joseph Stalin did not groom anyone for succession. The most talented
and popular members of
the Politburo and the Party Central Committee were eventually jailed,
tortured and shot.
Midlevel bureaucrats who showed promise and/or popularity were usually
sentenced or posted to
Siberia where they died of exposure or malnutrition. The amusing
British anecdote turns into a
very stale joke when applied to a dictatorship.
Obama is working with the advice in the first envelope because he is
dealing with the worst recession
since Herbert Hoover and the worst predecessor since Warren Harding.
George Bush on the eve of
9/11 did not have a nation bled white by 8 years of war, a currency
stretched by $60 trillion in bogus
commercial instruments, and a budget having a trillion dollar annual
deficit. The political party that
created these circumstances started the blame game even before Obama
opened that first envelope.
There are two obvious constraints to what Obama can do in
Afghanistan. The first restraint is the
lack of a credible central government. (Think here about the
landlord government we supported in
Viet Nam versus the peasant government of Ho Chi Minh.) Hamid Karzai
and his parliament is not
Nouri Al Maliki and his National Assembly. Without a strong central
government in Iraq, the
Americans had to build up local and provincial alliances and
agreements. The surge did not create
that framework. The Baker-Hamilton surge IMPLEMENTED groundwork that
was already done by the
USMC , General Petraeus and the State Department.
Obama’s second restraint is the national economy itself. The U.S. is
the only major industrial power
that operates without a central bank and a modern health delivery
system. Our biggest bank, the
"Bank of America" , fills our press with overseas capital movements,
mergers, acquisitions, record
bonuses, and glowing reports of major transactions. This faux
central bank does not flood our
media with the news of its investments and loans to our
businesses, our industries and our
enterprises. We have poured billions upon billions into this one large
bank and yet the government
still has to act as the major banker and investor for our struggling
economy. We cannot borrow from
Bank of America in order to support 13,000 additional personnel in
Afghanistan. We have to go to
the Bank of China and the Bank of Nippon. Why ? Because there is not
yet a recovery from the
devastation and the dysfunction caused by eight years of GOP rule.
If Krauthammer wants to handicap the Afghan war, he should keep in
mind that we had to try three
different generals in Iraq before the SecDef found Petraeus.
McChrystal is not the last general who
will command in Afghanistan. If he cannot secure at least one
province with 60,000 personnel,
then the SecDef will find a general who can. Granted there is a
refugee influx issue and an IED
network which may require 15,000 more troops ordered before
Christmas. But securing all of Afghanistan is a mission that
Krauthammer should cede to the ace columnist of the New York Times.
G:\winword7\mydocuments\opinion\Kraut3envelop.doc 4
XI 2009 CE |
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| Jack Linthicum... |
| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:39 am |
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On Nov 4, 5:05 am, Ulysses at Langdale Tarn <davidholi... at (no spam) yahoo.com>
wrote:
[quote]Krauthammer versus Obama on Afghanistan
Source: Columnist Charles Krauthammer, C.C. CALLER-TIMES, 11-1-09
Krauthammer’s "Three Envelopes" story comes not from Moscow but from
British 20th C political
lore. The incoming PM finds three envelopes in the top drawer of the
desk of the outgoing PM.
The top envelope says "Open this at the start of your first crisis."
The note inside says "Blame
your predecessor ." The second envelope says "Open me at the start of
your second crisis." The
note inside reads "Reshuffle your cabinet." The note in the third
envelope says " Prepare three
envelopes." It’s the kind of story that applies only to a
democracy.
Joseph Stalin did not groom anyone for succession. The most talented
and popular members of
the Politburo and the Party Central Committee were eventually jailed,
tortured and shot.
Midlevel bureaucrats who showed promise and/or popularity were usually
sentenced or posted to
Siberia where they died of exposure or malnutrition. The amusing
British anecdote turns into a
very stale joke when applied to a dictatorship.
Obama is working with the advice in the first envelope because he is
dealing with the worst recession
since Herbert Hoover and the worst predecessor since Warren Harding.
George Bush on the eve of
9/11 did not have a nation bled white by 8 years of war, a currency
stretched by $60 trillion in bogus
commercial instruments, and a budget having a trillion dollar annual
deficit. The political party that
created these circumstances started the blame game even before Obama
opened that first envelope.
There are two obvious constraints to what Obama can do in
Afghanistan. The first restraint is the
lack of a credible central government. (Think here about the
landlord government we supported in
Viet Nam versus the peasant government of Ho Chi Minh.) Hamid Karzai
and his parliament is not
Nouri Al Maliki and his National Assembly. Without a strong central
government in Iraq, the
Americans had to build up local and provincial alliances and
agreements. The surge did not create
that framework. The Baker-Hamilton surge IMPLEMENTED groundwork that
was already done by the
USMC , General Petraeus and the State Department.
Obama’s second restraint is the national economy itself. The U.S. is
the only major industrial power
that operates without a central bank and a modern health delivery
system. Our biggest bank, the
"Bank of America" , fills our press with overseas capital movements,
mergers, acquisitions, record
bonuses, and glowing reports of major transactions. This faux
central bank does not flood our
media with the news of its investments and loans to our
businesses, our industries and our
enterprises. We have poured billions upon billions into this one large
bank and yet the government
still has to act as the major banker and investor for our struggling
economy. We cannot borrow from
Bank of America in order to support 13,000 additional personnel in
Afghanistan. We have to go to
the Bank of China and the Bank of Nippon. Why ? Because there is not
yet a recovery from the
devastation and the dysfunction caused by eight years of GOP rule.
If Krauthammer wants to handicap the Afghan war, he should keep in
mind that we had to try three
different generals in Iraq before the SecDef found Petraeus.
McChrystal is not the last general who
will command in Afghanistan. If he cannot secure at least one
province with 60,000 personnel,
then the SecDef will find a general who can. Granted there is a
refugee influx issue and an IED
network which may require 15,000 more troops ordered before
Christmas. But securing all of Afghanistan is a mission that
Krauthammer should cede to the ace columnist of the New York Times.
G:\winword7\mydocuments\opinion\Kraut3envelop.doc 4
XI 2009 CE
[/quote]
The second envelope for Obama reads "Leave Afghanistan" |
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| Ray O'Hara... |
| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:49 am |
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Guest
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[quote]"Ulysses at Langdale Tarn" <davidholiman at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:89fcbbcc-1593-4d5b->8b0>>0c52c7be933a at (no spam) v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
..>Krauthammer versus Obama on Afghanistan[/quote]
Krauthammer? isn't he the guy who doesn't know better than to dive head
first into the shallow end of the pool? |
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| Ulysses at Langdale Tarn... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:50 am |
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Guest
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On Nov 4, 6:49 am, "Ray O'Hara" <raymond-oh... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:
[quote]"Ulysses at Langdale Tarn" <davidholi... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:89fcbbcc-1593-4d5b->8b0>>0c52c7be9__BEGIN_MASK_n#9g02mG7!__...__END_MASK_i?a63jfAD$z__ at (no spam) v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
.>Krauthammer versus Obama on Afghanistan
Krauthammer? isn't he the guy who doesn't know better than to dive head
first into the shallow end of the pool?
[/quote]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It had to be a set up. I have never seen Krauthammer write so
poorly. He must have had one too many libations before he wrote
that piece. You don't start off a syndicated essay by revealing
ignorance of history.
There is a lot less in the media about Afghanistan because nobody
really knows the territory who hasn't actually been there.
I am guessing the Afghans are a race who love freedom more than
anything else, including the Quran. I cannot see them forming a
unified nation based on the actions of outsiders. All the more reason
to deal with local and provincial leaders rather than the opium
merchants in thge Kabul "central government."
David H
~~~~~~~~~~ |
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| William Black... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:26 am |
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Ulysses at Langdale Tarn wrote:
[quote]I am guessing the Afghans are a race who love freedom more than
anything else, including the Quran.
[/quote]
Well, except for the women, Christians (there are actually a couple of
Christian clans within one of the tribes) and anyone who just wants to
be a peaceful trader and who won't pay protection to roaming bandits.
Oh yes, not forgetting Hindus, lawyers, anyone who's the 'wrong kind'
of Muslim (but that varies depending on the individual concerned)
bankers, people doing local civil improvements and the odd individual
who disagrees with the local malik and doesn't have male relatives
who'll carry a vendetta forwards.
I've come around to the French view, which is that it's mainly about
women's rights, and if they can sort female education and emancipation
out the place will become a great deal more civilised.
--
William Black
"Any number under six"
The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke of
Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could beat
single handed with a quarterstaff. |
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| Ulysses at Langdale Tarn... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:52 pm |
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On Nov 6, 7:26 am, William Black <william.bl... at (no spam) hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
[quote]Ulysses at Langdale Tarn wrote:
I am guessing the Afghans are a race who love freedom more than
anything else, including the Quran.
Well, except for the women, Christians (there are actually a couple of
Christian clans within one of the tribes) and anyone who just wants to
be a peaceful trader and who won't pay protection to roaming bandits.
Oh yes, not forgetting Hindus, lawyers, anyone who's the 'wrong kind'
of Muslim (but that varies depending on the individual concerned)
bankers, people doing local civil improvements and the odd individual
who disagrees with the local malik and doesn't have male relatives
who'll carry a vendetta forwards.
I've come around to the French view, which is that it's mainly about
women's rights, and if they can sort female education and emancipation
out the place will become a great deal more civilised.
--
William Black
"Any number under six"
The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke of
Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could beat
single handed with a quarterstaff.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~[/quote]
Indeed. The French are on solid ground in this regard.
There is a lot of diversity in that far country, and we Americans
thrive on multicultural interactions. I see Afghanistan as a Swiss
type opportunity just as the Taliban see it as fertile ground for
religious absolutism.
If Helmand experiences an influx of refugees, this is a sure sign
that our military mission (to provide basic security, clean water,
electric power, and sanitation) has succeeded. Gender equality
cannot be given the French emphasis and priority. Nor can opium
commerce be prohibited by our Puritanical tendencies.
I don't know anything about the French perimeter, but I think
Helmand can become our showcase.
I will say here exactly what I said about Iraq. About 90% of all
assault missions should be joint missions and training missions.
It took us 7 years in Iraq and it will take us 10 years in
Afghanistan.
David H
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
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| Ray O'Hara... |
| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:27 pm |
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Guest
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"William Black" <william.black at (no spam) hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:hd185c$80d$1 at (no spam) news.eternal-september.org...
[quote]Ulysses at Langdale Tarn wrote:
I am guessing the Afghans are a race who love freedom more than
anything else, including the Quran.
Well, except for the women, Christians (there are actually a couple of
Christian clans within one of the tribes) and anyone who just wants to be
a peaceful trader and who won't pay protection to roaming bandits.
Oh yes, not forgetting Hindus, lawyers, anyone who's the 'wrong kind' of
Muslim (but that varies depending on the individual concerned) bankers,
people doing local civil improvements and the odd individual who disagrees
with the local malik and doesn't have male relatives who'll carry a
vendetta forwards.
I've come around to the French view, which is that it's mainly about
women's rights, and if they can sort female education and emancipation
out the place will become a great deal more civilised.
[/quote]
Female oppression has led to male repression all through the Middle east.
.. its a nasty cycle.
We just had an incident in Phoenix where an Iraqi immigrant murdered his
daughter because she became westernized.
he ran her over |
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| William Black... |
| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:45 pm |
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Ray O'Hara wrote:
[quote]"William Black" <william.black at (no spam) hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:hd185c$80d$1 at (no spam) news.eternal-september.org...
Ulysses at Langdale Tarn wrote:
I am guessing the Afghans are a race who love freedom more than
anything else, including the Quran.
Well, except for the women, Christians (there are actually a couple of
Christian clans within one of the tribes) and anyone who just wants to be
a peaceful trader and who won't pay protection to roaming bandits.
Oh yes, not forgetting Hindus, lawyers, anyone who's the 'wrong kind' of
Muslim (but that varies depending on the individual concerned) bankers,
people doing local civil improvements and the odd individual who disagrees
with the local malik and doesn't have male relatives who'll carry a
vendetta forwards.
I've come around to the French view, which is that it's mainly about
women's rights, and if they can sort female education and emancipation
out the place will become a great deal more civilised.
Female oppression has led to male repression all through the Middle east.
. its a nasty cycle.
We just had an incident in Phoenix where an Iraqi immigrant murdered his
daughter because she became westernized.
he ran her over
[/quote]
It happens, we've got a nasty 'honour killing' case being dragged
through the courts at the moment.
--
William Black
"Any number under six"
The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke of
Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could beat
single handed with a quarterstaff. |
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| Ulysses at Langdale Tarn... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:08 am |
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On Nov 11, 4:45 pm, William Black <william.bl... at (no spam) hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
[quote]Ray O'Hara wrote:
"William Black" <william.bl... at (no spam) hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:hd185c$80d$1 at (no spam) news.eternal-september.org...
Ulysses at Langdale Tarn wrote:
I am guessing the Afghans are a race who love freedom more than
anything else, including the Quran.
Well, except for the women, Christians (there are actually a couple of
Christian clans within one of the tribes) and anyone who just wants to be
a peaceful trader and who won't pay protection to roaming bandits.
Oh yes, not forgetting Hindus, lawyers, anyone who's the 'wrong kind' of
Muslim (but that varies depending on the individual concerned) bankers,
people doing local civil improvements and the odd individual who disagrees
with the local malik and doesn't have male relatives who'll carry a
vendetta forwards.
I've come around to the French view, which is that it's mainly about
women's rights, and if they can sort female education and emancipation
out the place will become a great deal more civilised.
Female oppression has led to male repression all through the Middle east.
. its a nasty cycle.
We just had an incident in Phoenix where an Iraqi immigrant murdered his
daughter because she became westernized.
he ran her over
It happens, we've got a nasty 'honour killing' case being dragged
through the courts at the moment.
--
William Black
"Any number under six"
The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke of
Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could beat
single handed with a quarterstaff.
[/quote]
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ray is talking about a case in Arizona.
You must be talking about a case in the U.K.
Is Major Nidal Hassan a Shiite ? The U.S. is closing down 4 Shiite
mosques and an associated Iranian-backed support group.
It is going to be interesting to see how Obama
and McChrystal use 30,000 more troops in
Afghanistan. This could put our economy in
even more jeopardy. A string of bases along the
west Pak border would cost a logistical fortune.
My guess is that they will coordinate closely
with all Pak pincer movements on their side of
the border.
Cheers, David H
~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
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| La N... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:12 am |
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Guest
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Ulysses at Langdale Tarn wrote:
[quote]On Nov 11, 4:45 pm, William Black <william.bl... at (no spam) hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
Ray O'Hara wrote:
"William Black" <william.bl... at (no spam) hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:hd185c$80d$1 at (no spam) news.eternal-september.org...
Ulysses at Langdale Tarn wrote:
I am guessing the Afghans are a race who love freedom more than
anything else, including the Quran.
Well, except for the women, Christians (there are actually a
couple of Christian clans within one of the tribes) and anyone who
just wants to be a peaceful trader and who won't pay protection to
roaming bandits.
Oh yes, not forgetting Hindus, lawyers, anyone who's the 'wrong
kind' of Muslim (but that varies depending on the individual
concerned) bankers, people doing local civil improvements and the
odd individual who disagrees with the local malik and doesn't have
male relatives who'll carry a vendetta forwards.
I've come around to the French view, which is that it's mainly
about women's rights, and if they can sort female education and
emancipation out the place will become a great deal more civilised.
Female oppression has led to male repression all through the Middle
east. . its a nasty cycle.
We just had an incident in Phoenix where an Iraqi immigrant
murdered his daughter because she became westernized.
he ran her over
It happens, we've got a nasty 'honour killing' case being dragged
through the courts at the moment.
--
William Black
"Any number under six"
The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke
of Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could
beat single handed with a quarterstaff.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ray is talking about a case in Arizona.
You must be talking about a case in the U.K.
Is Major Nidal Hassan a Shiite ? The U.S. is closing down 4 Shiite
mosques and an associated Iranian-backed support group.
It is going to be interesting to see how Obama
and McChrystal use 30,000 more troops in
Afghanistan. This could put our economy in
even more jeopardy. A string of bases along the
west Pak border would cost a logistical fortune.
My guess is that they will coordinate closely
with all Pak pincer movements on their side of
the border.
Cheers, David H
[/quote]
Which, again, begs the question. Isn't war supposed to be good for the
economy???!!!
(intesting times indeed)
- nilita
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
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| Ulysses at Langdale Tarn... |
| Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:12 am |
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On Nov 14, 2:12 am, Andrew Swallow <am.swal... at (no spam) btopenworld.com> wrote:
[quote]La N wrote:
{snip}
Which, again, begs the question. Isn't war supposed to be good for the
economy???!!!
(intesting times indeed)
- nilita
Someone else's war is good for the economy, if you can get a contract.
Your own war is good for reducing unemployment.
Andrew Swallow
[/quote]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am not clear on why the U.S. forces have low morale
in Afghan provinces. Is this because of the Fort Hood
killings ? Just because I have probed the stresses on Major Nidal
Hassan does not mean I am trying to
mitigate the atrocity or his deeds. The New York Fourth Estate should
be clear on my view that the
Major is a traitor who has betrayed his oath as a
military officer and who has committed the worst
offense against the Heartland since Al Qaeda brought
down the WTC.
I have seen Corpus Christino military personnel hugging and crying
outside the local Army recruiting
office. I feel their pain. That's why I am curious about
reports of low morale in the Afghan salient.
Cheers, David H
~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
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| Jack Linthicum... |
| Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 2:37 am |
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On Nov 14, 6:12 am, Ulysses at Langdale Tarn <davidholi... at (no spam) yahoo.com>
wrote:
[quote]On Nov 14, 2:12 am, Andrew Swallow <am.swal... at (no spam) btopenworld.com> wrote:
La N wrote:
{snip}
Which, again, begs the question. Isn't war supposed to be good for the
economy???!!!
(intesting times indeed)
- nilita
Someone else's war is good for the economy, if you can get a contract.
Your own war is good for reducing unemployment.
Andrew Swallow
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am not clear on why the U.S. forces have low morale
in Afghan provinces. Is this because of the Fort Hood
killings ? Just because I have probed the stresses on Major Nidal
Hassan does not mean I am trying to
mitigate the atrocity or his deeds. The New York Fourth Estate should
be clear on my view that the
Major is a traitor who has betrayed his oath as a
military officer and who has committed the worst
offense against the Heartland since Al Qaeda brought
down the WTC.
I have seen Corpus Christino military personnel hugging and crying
outside the local Army recruiting
office. I feel their pain. That's why I am curious about
reports of low morale in the Afghan salient.
Cheers, David H
~~~~~~~~~~~~
[/quote]
Virtually any anti-insurgency war in a strange country---and they
don't come much stranger than Afghanistan---leads to low morale.
People dying and not in combat. What is the "Afghan salient"? |
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| Andrew Swallow... |
| Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:12 am |
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Guest
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La N wrote:
{snip}
[quote]
Which, again, begs the question. Isn't war supposed to be good for the
economy???!!!
(intesting times indeed)
- nilita
[/quote]
Someone else's war is good for the economy, if you can get a contract.
Your own war is good for reducing unemployment.
Andrew Swallow |
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