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| David Oberman... |
 Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:45 pm |
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Belba Grubb <trungsisterfan at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]On Oct 19, 1:19 pm, Herschel <kafildaf... at (no spam) temple.tv> wrote:
If you watch the movie and "LISTEN" to the dialog, you will note that
the ship is traveling over a shallow reef. The wave build-up is
because of this shoal or reef. THAT is why the ship is overturned and
sunk. Shelly Winters almost died in this movie from a heart attack
after the film was finished being shot.
Down in the Caribbean there are some islands that a hurricane's storm
surge won't affect because it just goes around the island; it's not
true of all the islands, but I'll have to dig into the blog posts at
Weather Underground (where I read about it a few years ago) if anyone
wants more details. I wonder if a tsunami might work in a similar way.
Anyway, I wonder if a tsunami wave would build up in such a way on a
reef when there was nearby water deep enough for a cruise boat.
Where's the shallowing for the wave to build up and just how does it
then affect the ship out in deeper water?
[/quote]
Imagine a seamount -- like Cortes off San Diego coast -- having any
sizable influence. Herschel is lying. There is no such dialog in the
original film, & that has nothing to do with the plot.
____
On the question of playing continuo during a Mozart concerto, I can only
reaffirm my belief that it is perfectly fine as long as it is inaudible.
-- Charles Rosen, "The Classical Style" |
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| Hershel... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:30 pm |
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Doberman, as in mutt, didn't listen to the movie. I bet she never
watched it. The dialog is there. I guess her name calling shows what
sort of demented lowlife character she is. I have it on DVD and Tape.
You are uch a loser Doberman. A real loser.
On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 11:45:23 -0800, David Oberman
<doberman at (no spam) socal.rr.com> wrote:
[quote]Belba Grubb <trungsisterfan at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Oct 19, 1:19 pm, Herschel <kafildaf... at (no spam) temple.tv> wrote:
If you watch the movie and "LISTEN" to the dialog, you will note that
the ship is traveling over a shallow reef. The wave build-up is
because of this shoal or reef. THAT is why the ship is overturned and
sunk. Shelly Winters almost died in this movie from a heart attack
after the film was finished being shot.
Down in the Caribbean there are some islands that a hurricane's storm
surge won't affect because it just goes around the island; it's not
true of all the islands, but I'll have to dig into the blog posts at
Weather Underground (where I read about it a few years ago) if anyone
wants more details. I wonder if a tsunami might work in a similar way.
Anyway, I wonder if a tsunami wave would build up in such a way on a
reef when there was nearby water deep enough for a cruise boat.
Where's the shallowing for the wave to build up and just how does it
then affect the ship out in deeper water?
Imagine a seamount -- like Cortes off San Diego coast -- having any
sizable influence. Herschel is lying. There is no such dialog in the
original film, & that has nothing to do with the plot.
____
On the question of playing continuo during a Mozart concerto, I can only
reaffirm my belief that it is perfectly fine as long as it is inaudible.
-- Charles Rosen, "The Classical Style"[/quote] |
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| Belba Grubb... |
| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:52 am |
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Cozumel...that's the place I was thinking of. There's deep water just
offshore, and even in big hurricanes, they don't ever get much of a
surge. I don't know enough about the physics involved in tsunamis to
comment on the likelihood of a big wave piling up on a reef, but
without a harbor, nearby land, a bay, etc., to angle the sea bottom
upwards, it's hard to imagine such a thing happening. Was there such a
thing in the movie? (Note: I truly dislike the song "The Morning
After" and never watched it.)
As for the "Poseidon," some of the movie's scenes were filmed aboard
the original "Queen Mary," which displaced almost 82,000 tonnes. Where
such a ship was, there had to be some fairly deep water, and no pilot
would be steering it very close to a reef. How could the wave in the
shallows have gotten to the ship in the deep water?
It had to be a rogue wave.....
Barb
----------
"The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for
vengeance."
-- Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman, "Good Omens" |
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| Belba Grubb... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:44 am |
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On Nov 8, 1:57 pm, David Oberman <dober... at (no spam) socal.rr.com> wrote:
[quote]The Queen Mary was also used for the "Werewolf" episode of THE NIGHT
STALKER on TV.
[/quote]
I had a crush on Darren McGavin as a kid and used to love that show!
The QM also appeared in the background as an anachronism (purposely, I
suspect) in "The Crimson Pirate."
[quote]No. The ship was out at sea, in both the book & the film.
[/quote]
Yeah, that's what I figured -- it would have taken some of the drama
out if rescuers had been close by, i.e., if it had capsized in a bay
or shallows or something, though that is where a big tsunami wave
would be most likely hit it. I still shudder at one of the December
2004 videos at Phuket (by a German, I think), shot from shore, that
showed a couple of relatively small Thai naval vessels patrolling,
then caught in the foam as the first wave came in, and then they were
gone--no buoyant force in foam.
Well, anyway, generally, it's the relatively small, quiet things that
sneak up on most people, combine in odd ways, and cause big trouble.
Was reading this excerpt from Dr. Jeff Masters' blog today about what
is currently Hurricane Ida, at wunderground.com, and thought of this
thread:
"Storm surge is the other concern. With a strong high pressure system
anchored voer [sic] the U.S. today, the pressure difference between
this high and Ida is creating a strong pressure gradient that will
drive tides 3 - 5 feet above normal from New Orleans to the Florida
Panhandle tonight. As Ida approaches on Monday, an additional rise in
water of another two feet is possible, and a large stretch of coast
will be subject to very high water levels for an extended period of
time. With high winds of 45 - 55 mph likely to build Monday afternoon
into Tuesday morning, significant coastal erosion event is shaping up.
A particular concern is the low-lying, heavily developed western end
of Alabama's Dauphin Island, where storm surges from four hurricanes
over the past fifteen years have caused heavy damage."
-- full post at http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=1375
A foot here, a foot there, and pretty soon you're talking about real
water.
There is a post at http://www.aldora.com/hurricanestruth.htm that
attempts to distinguish the difference between surge caused by wind
and that caused by pressure; generally, the winds of a hurricane
create most of the surge (Katrina came in as a Category 3 in 2005, but
it had a Category 5 surge or pretty close to that because the
hurricane had only weakened from a 5 to a high-end 3 shortly before
its first landfall). However, the Ida example above shows how the
right circumstances can allow a much weaker storm to pack a big wallop
(right now, Ida is expected to reach, at most, Category 2 strength and
then rapidly weaken as it encounters hostile conditions once it gets
further out into the Gulf--it may or may not even be a hurricane when
it reaches the coast).
I don't think pressure differences account for rogue waves, but with
all this talk of ocean-going Queens, it's interesting to find that the
QE2 really was hit by a 95-foot rogue wave in 1995 (source:
http://core.ecu.edu/geology/woods/WAVES.htm ). Apparently the captain
"surfed" the wave(s); that would make an interesting movie, except
that there was little to no damage or loss of life or injuries.
Still...surfing a wave with the QE2...wow (this, from a source that
misdates the liner event, which happened on 9/11/95, but does mention
the Draupner oil platform getting hit that same year with a slightly
smaller wave: http://www.benthic.ca/report.cfm?report=65 )
Barb
-----------
This is what really happened to the dinosaurs:
http://icanhascheezburger.com/2009/11/06/funny-pictures-extincshun/ |
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| David Oberman... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:55 pm |
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Hershel <kafildafish at (no spam) temple.tv> wrote:
[quote]Doberman, as in mutt, didn't listen to the movie. I bet she never
watched it. The dialog is there. I guess her name calling shows what
sort of demented lowlife character she is. I have it on DVD and Tape.
You are uch a loser Doberman. A real loser.
[/quote]
Ruff-ruff.
____
On the question of playing continuo during a Mozart concerto, I can only
reaffirm my belief that it is perfectly fine as long as it is inaudible.
-- Charles Rosen, "The Classical Style" |
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| David Oberman... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:57 pm |
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Belba Grubb <trungsisterfan at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]Cozumel...that's the place I was thinking of. There's deep water just
offshore, and even in big hurricanes, they don't ever get much of a
surge. I don't know enough about the physics involved in tsunamis to
comment on the likelihood of a big wave piling up on a reef, but
without a harbor, nearby land, a bay, etc., to angle the sea bottom
upwards, it's hard to imagine such a thing happening. Was there such a
thing in the movie?
[/quote]
No. The ship was out at sea, in both the book & the film.
[quote]As for the "Poseidon," some of the movie's scenes were filmed aboard
the original "Queen Mary," which displaced almost 82,000 tonnes.
[/quote]
The Queen Mary was also used for the "Werewolf" episode of THE NIGHT
STALKER on TV.
____
On the question of playing continuo during a Mozart concerto, I can only
reaffirm my belief that it is perfectly fine as long as it is inaudible.
-- Charles Rosen, "The Classical Style" |
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| Hatunen... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:08 pm |
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On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 10:57:07 -0800, David Oberman
<doberman at (no spam) socal.rr.com> wrote:
[quote]Belba Grubb <trungsisterfan at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
As for the "Poseidon," some of the movie's scenes were filmed aboard
the original "Queen Mary," which displaced almost 82,000 tonnes.
The Queen Mary was also used for the "Werewolf" episode of THE NIGHT
STALKER on TV.
[/quote]
The IMDb lists 80 films and episodes that used the Queen Mary.
--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen at (no spam) cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
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| Belba Grubb... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:35 am |
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On Nov 8, 5:08 pm, Hatunen <hatu... at (no spam) cox.net> wrote:
[quote]The IMDb lists 80 films and episodes that used the Queen Mary.
[/quote]
I couldn't find that list at IMDb but hunted up the liner's Web page
on the Web and found out two startling facts:
1. That wasn't the QM in "Crimson Pirate"; it was one of those more
modern "wedding-cake"-type liners (well, that startled me--BG).
2. The QM's draft was only 39 feet 4-something inches; amazing what
applied science can do! Anyway, such a vessel could have gotten pretty
close to a reef after all.
More info at http://www.queenmary.com/index.php?page=queenmarystats
A couple of clarifications, too, after sleeping on it: First, it's not
the actual pressure gradient that's going to contribute to the
upcoming coastal flooding in the Gulf, of course--it's the winds that
gradient will cause. The Gulf waters are being affected by two wind
fields, that caused by the pressure gradient between a 1000-plus high
pressure system over the Great Lakes and another low that's already in
the western Gulf, and that between the Great Lakes high and the 990-
something low pressure at the center of Ida.
Second, I was so dazzled by the image of the QE2 actually "surfing" a
monster wave in 1995 that I missed a reference in the same benthic.ca
article to the Queen Mary herself being hit by a rogue wave in 1942.
On looking into that further, I found the answer to the original
poster's question at Wikipedia:
"In December 1942, the Queen Mary was carrying exactly 16,082 American
troops from New York to Great Britain, a standing record for the most
passengers ever transported on one vessel.[9] While 700 miles from
Scotland during a gale, she was suddenly hit broadside by a rogue wave
that may have reached a height of 28 metres (92 ft). An account of
this crossing can be found in Walter Ford Carter's book, No Greater
Sacrifice, No Greater Love. Carter's father, Dr. Norval Carter, part
of the 110th Station Hospital on board at the time, wrote that at one
point the Queen Mary "damned near capsized... One moment the top deck
was at its usual height and then, swoom! Down, over, and forward she
would pitch." It was calculated later that the ship tilted 52 degrees,
and would have capsized had she rolled another 3 degrees.[10] The
incident inspired Paul Gallico to write his story, The Poseidon
Adventure, which was later made into a film by the same name, using
the Queen Mary as a stand-in for the SS Poseidon."
-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Queen_Mary#World_War_II
I wonder how much they would charge me for my very own machine-gun-
equipped lifeboat....
Barb |
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| Hatunen... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:05 pm |
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On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 02:35:39 -0800 (PST), Belba Grubb
<trungsisterfan at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]On Nov 8, 5:08 pm, Hatunen <hatu... at (no spam) cox.net> wrote:
The IMDb lists 80 films and episodes that used the Queen Mary.
I couldn't find that list at IMDb
[/quote]
It baffled me at first, but the secret is to choose a movie that
used the location, say The Poseidon adventure, click on filming
locations, which will give you the Queen Mary, then click on
Queen Mary. I don't know why they don't have a way to do a direct
search for film locations.
[quote]but hunted up the liner's Web page
on the Web and found out two startling facts:
1. That wasn't the QM in "Crimson Pirate"; it was one of those more
modern "wedding-cake"-type liners (well, that startled me--BG).
2. The QM's draft was only 39 feet 4-something inches; amazing what
applied science can do! Anyway, such a vessel could have gotten pretty
close to a reef after all.
More info at http://www.queenmary.com/index.php?page=queenmarystats
A couple of clarifications, too, after sleeping on it: First, it's not
the actual pressure gradient that's going to contribute to the
upcoming coastal flooding in the Gulf, of course--it's the winds that
gradient will cause. The Gulf waters are being affected by two wind
fields, that caused by the pressure gradient between a 1000-plus high
pressure system over the Great Lakes and another low that's already in
the western Gulf, and that between the Great Lakes high and the 990-
something low pressure at the center of Ida.
Second, I was so dazzled by the image of the QE2 actually "surfing" a
monster wave in 1995 that I missed a reference in the same benthic.ca
article to the Queen Mary herself being hit by a rogue wave in 1942.
On looking into that further, I found the answer to the original
poster's question at Wikipedia:
"In December 1942, the Queen Mary was carrying exactly 16,082 American
troops from New York to Great Britain, a standing record for the most
passengers ever transported on one vessel.[9] While 700 miles from
Scotland during a gale, she was suddenly hit broadside by a rogue wave
that may have reached a height of 28 metres (92 ft). An account of
this crossing can be found in Walter Ford Carter's book, No Greater
Sacrifice, No Greater Love. Carter's father, Dr. Norval Carter, part
of the 110th Station Hospital on board at the time, wrote that at one
point the Queen Mary "damned near capsized... One moment the top deck
was at its usual height and then, swoom! Down, over, and forward she
would pitch." It was calculated later that the ship tilted 52 degrees,
and would have capsized had she rolled another 3 degrees.[10] The
incident inspired Paul Gallico to write his story, The Poseidon
Adventure, which was later made into a film by the same name, using
the Queen Mary as a stand-in for the SS Poseidon."
-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Queen_Mary#World_War_II
[/quote]
Which I mentioned, but with less detail, in my post of 19
October...
--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen at (no spam) cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
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| Belba Grubb... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:26 pm |
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On Nov 9, 12:05 pm, Hatunen <hatu... at (no spam) cox.net> wrote (in a somewhat
different order):
[quote]trungsister... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
Which I mentioned, but with less detail, in my post of 19
October...
[/quote]
Indeed you did sir, and I missed it. But wasn't that image of the QE2
surfing the monster wave worth the repetition, though!
One more irrelevant detail: while reading up on the Queens, I learned
about the "squat effect" (which probably was what led to the grounding
of the QE2 near Martha's Vineyard in 1992). It requires a rapid
forward motion, so upon reading at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squat_effect
that world's largest cruise ship, just 10 days ago, used it to pass
under a bridge--which basically had to involve aiming the ship at the
bridge and speeding towards it, knowing the upper portions of your
superstructure couldn't clear it--I have to accept that cruise ship
skippers are a courageous and a crazy lot.
[quote]It baffled me at first, but the secret is to choose a movie that
used the location, say The Poseidon adventure, click on filming
locations, which will give you the Queen Mary, then click on
Queen Mary. I don't know why they don't have a way to do a direct
search for film locations.
[/quote]
Must...have..link...Ah! http://tinyurl.com/b5nnc2
I did an IMDb search of "volcano" and brought up a surprising number
of entries, including the USGS and a couple of volcano observatories
(scroll down to "Companies: Partial Matches"): http://www.imdb.com/find?s=all&q=volcano
Barb
----------
History is a symphony of echoes heard and unheard. It is a poem with
events as verses.
~Charles Angoff |
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| Belba Grubb... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:36 pm |
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PS: If anyone is interested and/or in the Gulf Coast area tonight, the
Mobile NWS office has these thoughts on ex-Ida's impending landfall
(the cyclone has turned extratopical, but its forward speed--no squat
effect for storms--and the aforementioned pressure situation mean it's
still strong and has heightened effects in spite of its relatively low
former place on the Saffir-Simpson scale):
IF THE STORM COMES IN TO THE WEST OF [MOBILE] BAY...WE ARE
ANTICIPATING
TOTAL TIDE HEIGHTS OF 4-6 FT IN THE BAY AREA AND ACROSS SOUTHERN
BALDWIN COUNTY...WITH 4-5 FT POSSIBLE AROUND PENSACOLA AND CLOSER TO
3-4 FEET FURTHER EAST TOWARD DESTIN.
On top of that, there will be big waves; how big, I don't know, but
per the NWS seas are expected to be running 15-25 feet offshore
tomorrow. It's nowhere near a Katrina-type event, but there will be
some people there tonight wondering if there will be a morning
after...
....don't worry, there will be.
Barb |
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| Weatherlawyer... |
| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:24 am |
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On 10 Nov, 07:36, Belba Grubb <trungsister... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]PS: If anyone is interested and/or in the Gulf Coast area tonight, the
Mobile NWS office has these thoughts on ex-Ida's impending landfall
(the cyclone has turned extratopical, but its forward speed--no squat
effect for storms--and the aforementioned pressure situation mean it's
still strong
there will be some people there tonight wondering if there will be
a morning after...
...don't worry, there will be.
[/quote]
Only some of us may not live to enjoy it -or not, as there case may
be. |
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| Belba Grubb... |
| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:54 am |
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On Nov 12, 8:24 am, Weatherlawyer <weatherlaw... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]Only some of us may not live to enjoy it -or not, as there case may
be.
[/quote]
The Gulf Coast actually made out pretty well with Ida; ex-Ida later
caused some record flooding along parts of the US southeastern and mid-
Atlantic coastlines, though, especially after it combined with another
strong system that formed out in the Atlantic and joined it/was
absorbed by it (am not really sure which happened).
Jeff Masters at Wunderground described it here:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/yd39p3m
and here:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/yd39p3m (nice satellite image of the mess
in this post).
On a potentially topical point, the media got confused when Ida was
sitting on the Caribbean side of the Central American isthmus and
another system (it hadn't yet become a tropical depression at that
point) was sitting close the same point but on the Pacific side, and
they attributed the tragedy in El Salvador (160-plus deaths, more than
13,000 homeless) to Ida, when of course, El Salvador is on the Pacific
side of things. It was the other tropical disturbance. The Wikipedia
entry has that correction, though their count of fatalities in El
Salvador is lower (I used the figure given in Dr. Masters' last entry
on that). Here is the link to the full Wikipedia "impact" section for
Ida/ex-Ida:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Ida_%282009%29#Impact
In the US: 1 Louisiana shrimperman and 5 or 6 (depending on how you
read the entry) in the SE/Mid-Atlantic region dead .
Some of these weak tropical cyclones can go on to do tremendous harm
as extratropical cyclones or even strong lows.
Was any of your recent bad weather in the UK attributable to ex-Ida?
Barb
----------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdrGS__yg6Q
Well, it's not always just a state of mind (gad that video--oddly
modern in its feel--makes me feel old!) |
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| Belba Grubb... |
| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:01 am |
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All times are GMT - 5 Hours
The time now is Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:39 am
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