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| Science Forum Index » Electronics - Components Forum » How long does a resistor last?... |
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| Hal Murray... |
 Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:55 pm |
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[quote:4ad17f2064]Depends on what it's made of and how well it's cooled. We use 0603
surface-mount resistors at half a watt, because we heat sink them
well. Half-watt carbon resistors will die at half a watt in a confined
space.
Enameled wirewounds are very tough, up until the enamel melts.
Some resistors will die from temperture cycling stress.
But in general it's good to derate 0.5 maybe.
[/quote:4ad17f2064]
There is another dimension to consider: duty cycle. I've been told
(but don't have first hand experience) that old fashioned carbon
composition resistors are much better at pulse loads that newer
carbon film resistors.
--
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. |
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| Lostgallifreyan... |
| Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:20 pm |
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hal-usenet at (no spam) ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net (Hal Murray) wrote in
news:DO2dnZ1gIacDNU_XnZ2dnUVZ_vudnZ2d at (no spam) megapath.net:
[quote:08a912920f]There is another dimension to consider: duty cycle. I've been told
(but don't have first hand experience) that old fashioned carbon
composition resistors are much better at pulse loads that newer
carbon film resistors.
[/quote:08a912920f]
They're also a lot better at high voltage. I'm just mentioning this because
when I used some for a HeNe supply current limit resistor, they really
impressed me. Most other things I tried eventually burned. Basically, a solid
mass is better than a film for HV, it seems. |
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| Tim Williams... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:18 am |
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On Oct 12, 11:29 am, Lostgallifreyan <no-... at (no spam) nowhere.net> wrote:
[quote:e93bbb373f]I'm wondering how much of it might be due to that voltage coefficient
in carbon resistors. Maybe designers deliberately tried to reduce the effect
by careful biasing, or maybe there is a strong effect that is overlooked, I
really have no idea...
[/quote:e93bbb373f]
Noise?
It's well known that adding rumble and pop noise to a recording makes
it sound more appealing to the phonograph crowd. And apparently makes
them angry when you tell them that's what you've done.
You aren't going to see much nonlinearity, and resistors certainly
weren't well picked -- 470k is close enough, and with 20% resistors,
who cares anyway. What scares me more is, for instance, how a common
Magnavox 6V6 PP amp uses 0.047uF for the coupling cap to one 6V6, and
0.0047 for the other. And the phase splitter doesn't split anything,
it's just a cascaded stage. The only balancing is due to a voltage
divider. Ewwww. I'd be willing to bet they did that intentionally,
since LF distortion makes phantom bass. They used teensy output
transformers, too.
Tim |
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| Phil Hobbs... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:39 am |
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Lostgallifreyan wrote:
[quote:c4862976ee]hal-usenet at (no spam) ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net (Hal Murray) wrote in
news:DO2dnZ1gIacDNU_XnZ2dnUVZ_vudnZ2d at (no spam) megapath.net:
There is another dimension to consider: duty cycle. I've been told
(but don't have first hand experience) that old fashioned carbon
composition resistors are much better at pulse loads that newer
carbon film resistors.
They're also a lot better at high voltage. I'm just mentioning this because
when I used some for a HeNe supply current limit resistor, they really
impressed me. Most other things I tried eventually burned. Basically, a solid
mass is better than a film for HV, it seems.
[/quote:c4862976ee]
Except for the horrible voltage coefficient. Carbon comps' resistances
decrease by about a quarter at their rated voltage. That's okay for a
HeNe, since the tube's load line is pretty steep.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
ElectroOptical Innovations
55 Orchard Rd
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net |
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| Lostgallifreyan... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:20 am |
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Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless at (no spam) electrooptical.net> wrote in
news:0badnQb6Bo8xok7XnZ2dnUVZ_udi4p2d at (no spam) supernews.com:
[quote:f2fc259040]Lostgallifreyan wrote:
hal-usenet at (no spam) ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net (Hal Murray) wrote in
news:DO2dnZ1gIacDNU_XnZ2dnUVZ_vudnZ2d at (no spam) megapath.net:
There is another dimension to consider: duty cycle. I've been told
(but don't have first hand experience) that old fashioned carbon
composition resistors are much better at pulse loads that newer
carbon film resistors.
They're also a lot better at high voltage. I'm just mentioning this
because when I used some for a HeNe supply current limit resistor, they
really impressed me. Most other things I tried eventually burned.
Basically, a solid mass is better than a film for HV, it seems.
Except for the horrible voltage coefficient. Carbon comps' resistances
decrease by about a quarter at their rated voltage. That's okay for a
HeNe, since the tube's load line is pretty steep.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
[/quote:f2fc259040]
Well that's cool cos that's about all I ever use them for.  But they were
the perfect answer in this singular case. |
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| Lostgallifreyan... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:29 am |
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Guest
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Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless at (no spam) electrooptical.net> wrote in
news:0badnQb6Bo8xok7XnZ2dnUVZ_udi4p2d at (no spam) supernews.com:
[quote:360b31487c]Except for the horrible voltage coefficient. Carbon comps' resistances
decrease by about a quarter at their rated voltage.
[/quote:360b31487c]
Veering swiftly offtopic... this interests me because people often rave about
the sound of valve amps. I don't mean audiophool ravings, I mean those who
like the effect especially in overdriven amps for bass guitar and other
instruments where the sound is appropriate, and very good. It's normally
attributed to the harmonic distortion and saturation effects in the valves,
but now I'm wondering how much of it might be due to that voltage coefficient
in carbon resistors. Maybe designers deliberately tried to reduce the effect
by careful biasing, or maybe there is a strong effect that is overlooked, I
really have no idea...
Comments welcome, so long as they come from either experience or interest in
this subject. |
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| Colin Trunt... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:07 pm |
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"larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencurly at (no spam) my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:e18113f3-4a77-45b7-b885-8c3b76744dbd at (no spam) h40g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
[quote]When run at its rated power?
I'm referring to 1/4 - 10 watt resistors in TVs and PC power supplies,
probably in 30-50 Celcius surrounding air.
I thought that resistors were supposed to be chosen for twice the
actual power, but I've seen many 0.5W to 1.0W resistors run at almost
exactly their rated power continuously.
[/quote]
Serious question?
It depends on what it is made of.
Also resistors are measured in ohms not watts.
Genereally speaking the 1/2 life of the material is a good clue
as to when it#s resistance will have doubled.
SO don't use anything to radioactive.
A typical value would be a million triilion years, if it
fails before them take it back to the shop :O) |
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| Dave Plowman (News)... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:29 pm |
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Guest
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In article <iDtGm.27$ei3.8 at (no spam) newsfe22.ams2>,
Colin Trunt <colin at (no spam) trunt.com> wrote:
[quote]"larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencurly at (no spam) my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:e18113f3-4a77-45b7-b885-8c3b76744dbd at (no spam) h40g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
When run at its rated power?
I'm referring to 1/4 - 10 watt resistors in TVs and PC power supplies,
probably in 30-50 Celcius surrounding air.
I thought that resistors were supposed to be chosen for twice the
actual power, but I've seen many 0.5W to 1.0W resistors run at almost
exactly their rated power continuously.
Serious question?
It depends on what it is made of.
Also resistors are measured in ohms not watts.
[/quote]
You must be lucky if you choose them without taking into account the
current they're handling.
--
*Caution: I drive like you do.
Dave Plowman dave at (no spam) davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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| Ian Jackson... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:27 pm |
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In message <iDtGm.27$ei3.8 at (no spam) newsfe22.ams2>, Colin Trunt <colin at (no spam) trunt.com>
writes
[quote]
"larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencurly at (no spam) my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:e18113f3-4a77-45b7-b885-8c3b76744dbd at (no spam) h40g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
When run at its rated power?
I'm referring to 1/4 - 10 watt resistors in TVs and PC power supplies,
probably in 30-50 Celcius surrounding air.
I thought that resistors were supposed to be chosen for twice the
actual power, but I've seen many 0.5W to 1.0W resistors run at almost
exactly their rated power continuously.
Serious question?
I don't know if it is a 'serious' question, but it seems to be a[/quote]
perfectly 'sensible' question.
[quote]It depends on what it is made of.
Also resistors are measured in ohms not watts.
Genereally speaking the 1/2 life of the material is a good clue
as to when it#s resistance will have doubled.
SO don't use anything to radioactive.
A typical value would be a million triilion years, if it
fails before them take it back to the shop :O)
Is this a misguided attempt at humour, or have you really not the[/quote]
slightest idea what you're talking about?
I suspect that the answer is very similar to that to "How long is a
piece of string", but maybe there is someone who is prepared to venture
a reasoned answer.
--
Ian |
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| Arfa Daily... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:41 pm |
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"Ian Jackson" <ianREMOVETHISjackson at (no spam) g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1D0mB9Nmw06KFwFy at (no spam) g3ohx.demon.co.uk...
[quote]In message <iDtGm.27$ei3.8 at (no spam) newsfe22.ams2>, Colin Trunt <colin at (no spam) trunt.com
writes
"larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencurly at (no spam) my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:e18113f3-4a77-45b7-b885-8c3b76744dbd at (no spam) h40g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
When run at its rated power?
I'm referring to 1/4 - 10 watt resistors in TVs and PC power supplies,
probably in 30-50 Celcius surrounding air.
I thought that resistors were supposed to be chosen for twice the
actual power, but I've seen many 0.5W to 1.0W resistors run at almost
exactly their rated power continuously.
Serious question?
I don't know if it is a 'serious' question, but it seems to be a perfectly
'sensible' question.
It depends on what it is made of.
Also resistors are measured in ohms not watts.
Genereally speaking the 1/2 life of the material is a good clue
as to when it#s resistance will have doubled.
SO don't use anything to radioactive.
A typical value would be a million triilion years, if it
fails before them take it back to the shop :O)
Is this a misguided attempt at humour, or have you really not the
slightest idea what you're talking about?
I suspect that the answer is very similar to that to "How long is a piece
of string", but maybe there is someone who is prepared to venture a
reasoned answer.
--
Ian
[/quote]
I think it depends on many factors, not the least of which are type -
w/wound, c/composition, metal film etc - how close it's being run to its
power rating, how much free circulation of air there is in the equipment,
how close it's being run to its voltage rating, and its value, depending on
type.
Resistors in high voltage circuits have a tendency to go high, for instance
anode (plate) load resistors, screen feed resistors, resevoir cap voltage
sharers or bleeders. Resistors that have a high value in the first place
i.e. above say 220k, have atendency to go high in normal use, although some
types, the old cc ones for example, are worse for this than more modern
types. Low value resistors in low voltage circuits, on the other hand,
seldom fail, unless they have done so in an obvious way - burnt out - caused
by another fault downstream of them. There is no reason at all why a
resistor in say the base bias circuit of a transistor, shouldn't last,
unchanged in characteristics, pretty much for ever. Obviously many
generalisations here, and there will of course be many anecdotal exceptions
to the rule, but I think that gives a fairly useable answer to the question.
Arfa |
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| Colin Trunt... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:58 am |
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Guest
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"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave at (no spam) davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:50b2416ebcdave at (no spam) davenoise.co.uk...
[quote]In article <iDtGm.27$ei3.8 at (no spam) newsfe22.ams2>,
Colin Trunt <colin at (no spam) trunt.com> wrote:
"larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencurly at (no spam) my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:e18113f3-4a77-45b7-b885-8c3b76744dbd at (no spam) h40g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
When run at its rated power?
I'm referring to 1/4 - 10 watt resistors in TVs and PC power supplies,
probably in 30-50 Celcius surrounding air.
I thought that resistors were supposed to be chosen for twice the
actual power, but I've seen many 0.5W to 1.0W resistors run at almost
exactly their rated power continuously.
Serious question?
It depends on what it is made of.
Also resistors are measured in ohms not watts.
You must be lucky if you choose them without taking into account the
current they're handling.
[/quote]
Not usually an issue.
Anyway I can allways stick in a resistor to drop the current
down to one it can handle. ;O)
Anyway if it lasts a day it should last a lifetime.
The usual solution is to add a heat sink.
[quote]
--
*Caution: I drive like you do.
Dave Plowman dave at (no spam) davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.[/quote] |
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| Jon Elson... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:23 pm |
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Guest
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Hal Murray wrote:
[quote]Depends on what it's made of and how well it's cooled. We use 0603
surface-mount resistors at half a watt, because we heat sink them
well. Half-watt carbon resistors will die at half a watt in a confined
space.
Enameled wirewounds are very tough, up until the enamel melts.
Some resistors will die from temperture cycling stress.
But in general it's good to derate 0.5 maybe.
There is another dimension to consider: duty cycle. I've been told
(but don't have first hand experience) that old fashioned carbon
composition resistors are much better at pulse loads that newer
carbon film resistors.
[/quote]
Proven! I was using some 100 Ohm resistors to limit current in a
spark-gap ignitor for mercury short-arc lamps. The film resistor just
BLEW off its resistance film on the first shot. I mumbled "oh yeah, I
KNEW it was going to do that" and replaced with a bulk carbon resistor,
and that held up for the life of the unit. You can guess, the pulse
current was 20,000/100 or about 100 A. 200 A ^ 2 * 100 = 4 mega-watts
for a couple microseconds.
Jon |
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