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| Shrikeback... |
 Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:47 pm |
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On Nov 6, 6:36 am, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum... at (no spam) dcemail.com>
wrote:
[quote]http://questiondarwin.blogspot.com/2007/09/imagine-no-atheism.html
Imagine no atheism
[/quote]
Ja! Ja! First ve line zem up, zen ve shoot zem! |
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| Dan Clore... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:41 pm |
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Franco wrote:
[quote]On Nov 6, 6:36 am, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum... at (no spam) dcemail.com
wrote:
http://questiondarwin.blogspot.com/2007/09/imagine-no-atheism.html
Imagine no atheism
http://www.questiondarwin.com
Blair is a Christian (reportedly very devout and recently converted
to Roman Catholicism) and yet he involved the UK in wars in
Afghanistan and Iraq. He is not the only Christian to engage in
warfare.
[/quote]
And Bush invaded Iraq on a mission from Gawd:
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
http://www.allgov.com/ViewNews/Bush_Invaded_Iraq_on_a_Mission_from_God_90809
Bush Invaded Iraq on a Mission from God
Sunday, August 09, 2009
by David Wallechinsky
During the run-up to the 2003 invasion of Iraq, President George W. Bush
and members of his administration gave a variety of justifications for
military action, which can best be summed up as “Saddam Hussein has
chemical and biological weapons and even nuclear weapons that he plans
to give to Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda who will then smuggle them into
the United States and kill tens of thousands of people.” Opponents of
the invasion suspected Bush was actually motivated by a desire to
control Iraq’s large oil reserves. However, according to reports out of
Switzerland and France, President Bush appears to have been inspired by
another source: Biblical prophecy.
Apparently, while trying to drum up international support for the
invasion of Iraq, Bush placed a phone call to the president of France,
Jacques Chirac, and presented a series of arguments to convince the
French president to join Bush’s “Coalition of the Willing.” In the
course of the conversation, according to an English-language
translation, Bush told Chirac, “Gog and Magog are at work in the Middle
East…. The Biblical prophecies are being fulfilled…. This confrontation
is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase his people’s
enemies before a New Age begins.
Chirac, a Catholic, didn’t understand what Bush, an Evangelical
Christian, was talking about, and asked his staff to find out who Gog
and Magog were and what they meant to the U.S. president. Chirac’s staff
contacted the Biblical Service of the French Federation of Protestants,
who in turn called Thomas Römer, a Professor of Theology at the
University of Lausanne and a specialist in the Old Testament. Römer was
asked to prepare a one-page report on the subject of Gog and Magog to be
shown to the president of France.
Römer maintained silence about the incident until Chirac left office in
May 2007, after which the professor revealed the story in an interview
with the University of Lausanne’s school magazine, Allez savoir!
[http://www2.unil.ch/unicom/allez_savoir/as39/index.html ]. Earlier this
year, Chirac confirmed the story in a book, Si vous le répétez, je
démentirai... : Chirac, Sarkozy, Villepin [If You Repeat It, I’ll Deny
It] by Jean-Claude Maurice,
So, for those to whom the allusion is not obvious, what did Bush mean
when he referred to Gog and Magog? Gog and Magog appear in the prophetic
Book of Ezekiel 38-39, and the section is open to various
interpretations. Gog is the human personification of evil who will lead
a multinational invasion of Israel from the north and be defeated, with
great violence, by God, who will restore Israel’s security. Magog refers
to the land from which Gog hails. To George Bush, Gog and Magog probably
meant the ultimate future battle between the forces of good and the
forces of evil, a battle that had been predicted more than 2,500 years
earlier, but whose time had finally come.
Chirac, who had sent French troops to support Bush’s 2001 invasion of
Afghanistan, was not convinced this time, and refused to join Bush’s
Coalition of the Willing.
A French Revelation, or The Burning Bush (by James A. Haught, Council
for Secular Humanism)
http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=library&page=haught_29_5
Did He Feel Hand of God? (by Mitch Potter, Toronto Star)
http://www.thespec.com/article/572824
Early 2003: Chirac Asks Theologian to Explain George W. Bush's Reference
to Gog and Magog (Sedulia’s Translations)
http://tinyurl.com/m5nv57
George W. Bush et le Code Ezéchiel (by Jocelyn Rochat, Allez savoir!)
(PDF) [French original]
http://www2.unil.ch/unicom/allez_savoir/as39/pages/pdf/4_Gog_Magog.pdf
Ezekiel 38-39 (New American Standard Bible) (BibleGateway.com)
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2038-39&version=49
--
Dan Clore
New book: _Weird Words: A Lovecraftian Lexicon_:
http://tinyurl.com/yd3bxkw
My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
(Wait for the new edition: http://hplmythos.com/ )
Lord We˙rdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://tinyurl.com/292yz9
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind.
-- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms" |
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| Zebra... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:15 pm |
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You are only giving two alternatives.
God or Atheism.
And Christianity does not = God.
Christianity is the belief that God had a son who appeared
on Earth.
This is not really a belief in God.
A belief in God is to do with a Creator, an explanation as
to how Earth got there, an all powerful being who arranges
destiny and this kind of thing. This belief is nothing to
do with Christianity.
And other alternatives are those who belief in Destiny, the
Powers that Be, "something more", but this does not
necessarily mean or equate with God or any form of religion.
Some like Einstein are what are known as Agnostic. In other
words they cannot really make a firm decision, but
constantly reflect on the idea and vary their decision
according to thoughts and circumstances and various evidence
or proof.
All you are really trying to say is that there are good
people and bad people.
This Polly Tonybee sounds like a bad person.
But bad people exist in atheism, agnosticism, Judaism,
Christianity, Islam, etc bad people are bad people, religion
cannot and does not make bad people "good" the same as
atheism or agnosticism cannot and does not make good people
"bad".
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet at (no spam) dcemail.com> wrote in
message
news:038996c0-712e-4e2a-bd09-e854ac397c1a at (no spam) j24g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
[quote]http://questiondarwin.blogspot.com/2007/09/imagine-no-atheism.html
Imagine no atheism
http://www.questiondarwin.com
Just listened to Polly Toynbee on Radio 4 'Sunday'
programme. She is
the new president of the National Secular Society and
HATES the idea
that there is a God. She sees herself as being involved in
a struggle
of Reason against Superstition, and is a great believer in
autonomy,
the right to die, abortion rights, and deplores the
influence of the
churches in society, which she seems to think is very
great. Shame it
wasn't great enough to stop Blair's illegal war in Iraq
when the
Catholic, Anglican and free church leaders begged the
prime minister
not to do it.
The interviewer brought up the 20th century when gentlemen
like Mao,
Stalin and Hitler, men who like Polly Toynbee rejected the
idea of
religion and its restrictions, had done so much evil.
Didn't organised
religion with it's teachings about the respect due to the
individual
(and, he didn't but might have said, the fear of facing a
righteous
God at Judgement Day with bloodstained hands) offer some
restraints
against such 'scientific atheism' and other irreligious
philosophy
which was used to justified mass murder? She typically
shrugged this
off and said that religious people were just as bad when
they got into
power. She didn't offer an example so we could compare
numbers, the
assertion was enough evidence for her. Not all atheists
were Stalins,
she said. Agreed, but ONE was-and he and his atheist
government
machine murdered 60 million or more people in the name of
the secular
state and 'progress'. No Christian, compelled by love and
restrained
by the fear of God, has ever or could ever do any such
thing.
Atheist state power and Christian state power 'just the
same' Polly?
Really? Hitler's war cost 50 million dead, plus the
economic and
environmental cost, Stalin and Mao are both thought to
have rivalled
or exceeded that number. Roger Bolton didn't even mention
Paris-
educated atheist Pol Pot who murdered a mere 2 million
people in
Cambodia in living memory. These men were all social
Darwinists to the
core, Hitler was a pagan rather than an atheist, and used
a form of
religious language when it suited him, but they all
rejected the idea
that a righteous Creator and Lawgiver God had the
authority to order
and restrain their behaviour-with terrible consequences.
Stalin
abandoned Christianity and embraced atheism after reading
Darwin.
Ideas have consequences.
It is a tragedy that influential journalists like Polly
Toynbee are
able to get away with calling themselves rational while
making flip
comments asserting that the 150 million plus deaths caused
by
secularist philosophies when they got into power in the
20th century
were matched by similar atrocities caused by the church.
Of course she
did not offer any examples as there aren't any which bear
examination.
Polly, nothing you or your mate Dawkins has said convinces
me that
there is not a seed of Stalin in your philosophy which
would
'liquidate superstition' by all means necessary if you
could.[/quote] |
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| Howard Brazee... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:08 pm |
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On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 07:28:08 -0800 (PST), Jimbo <ckdbigtoe at (no spam) gmail.com>
wrote:
[quote]LOL! It's amazing the way religionists will distort just about
anything to their own point of view.
[/quote]
He's only interested in the alternatives that threaten his belief.
He's not trying to convert Hindus, for instance.
--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."
- James Madison |
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| Howard Brazee... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:44 pm |
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It's interesting that he chose to cross post this to
rec.arts.sf.written. F&SF has often imagined what would happen if
gods were real, and it wasn't a matter of "belief".
--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."
- James Madison |
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| Mike Schilling... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:46 pm |
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"Howard Brazee" <howard at (no spam) brazee.net> wrote in message
news:7nn9f5p7p8co4pnm1jn4iheivmkcd7bl9d at (no spam) 4ax.com...
[quote]It's interesting that he chose to cross post this to
rec.arts.sf.written. F&SF has often imagined what would happen if
gods were real, and it wasn't a matter of "belief".
[/quote]
It's become a common trope that gods cease to exist if no one believes in
them. |
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| The Chief Instigator... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:01 pm |
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On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 06:36:12 -0800 (PST), Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrumpet at (no spam) dcemail.com> wrote:
[quote]http://questiondarwin.blogspot.com/2007/09/imagine-no-atheism.html
Imagine no atheism
[/quote]
You shouldn't post when you're that high on whatever chemicals you're
abusing, kid.
--
Patrick L. "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick at (no spam) io.com) Houston, Texas
www.io.com/~patrick/aeros.php (TCI's 2008-09 Houston Aeros) AA#2273
LAST GAME: Houston 4, Manitoba 1 (November 5)
NEXT GAME: Saturday, November 7 vs. San Antonio, 7:35 |
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| polymer... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:04 pm |
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On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 04:01:08 +0000, The Chief Instigator wrote:
[quote]On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 06:36:12 -0800 (PST), Sound of Trumpet
soundoftrumpet at (no spam) dcemail.com> wrote:
http://questiondarwin.blogspot.com/2007/09/imagine-no-atheism.html
Imagine no atheism
You shouldn't post when you're that high on whatever chemicals you're
abusing, kid.
[/quote]
I suspect a permanent chemical imbalance and brain lesions. |
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| The Chief Instigator... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:30 pm |
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Guest
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On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 22:04:10 -0600, polymer <polymer at (no spam) operamail.com> wrote:
[quote]On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 04:01:08 +0000, The Chief Instigator wrote:
On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 06:36:12 -0800 (PST), Sound of Trumpet
soundoftrumpet at (no spam) dcemail.com> wrote:
http://questiondarwin.blogspot.com/2007/09/imagine-no-atheism.html
Imagine no atheism
You shouldn't post when you're that high on whatever chemicals you're
abusing, kid.
I suspect a permanent chemical imbalance and brain lesions.
[/quote]
....and maybe an unoccupied space between his ears?
--
Patrick L. "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick at (no spam) io.com) Houston, Texas
www.io.com/~patrick/aeros.php (TCI's 2008-09 Houston Aeros) AA#2273
LAST GAME: Houston 4, Manitoba 1 (November 5)
NEXT GAME: Saturday, November 7 vs. San Antonio, 7:35 |
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| polymer... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:31 pm |
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On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 04:30:37 +0000, The Chief Instigator wrote:
[quote]On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 22:04:10 -0600, polymer <polymer at (no spam) operamail.com
wrote:
On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 04:01:08 +0000, The Chief Instigator wrote:
On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 06:36:12 -0800 (PST), Sound of Trumpet
soundoftrumpet at (no spam) dcemail.com> wrote:
http://questiondarwin.blogspot.com/2007/09/imagine-no-atheism.html
Imagine no atheism
You shouldn't post when you're that high on whatever chemicals you're
abusing, kid.
I suspect a permanent chemical imbalance and brain lesions.
...and maybe an unoccupied space between his ears?
[/quote]
Or muscles! Muscles -- Ear to Ear! [Firesign Theatre] |
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| The Chief Instigator... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:42 pm |
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On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 22:31:32 -0600, polymer <polymer at (no spam) operamail.com> wrote:
[quote]On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 04:30:37 +0000, The Chief Instigator wrote:
On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 22:04:10 -0600, polymer <polymer at (no spam) operamail.com
wrote:
On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 04:01:08 +0000, The Chief Instigator wrote:
On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 06:36:12 -0800 (PST), Sound of Trumpet
soundoftrumpet at (no spam) dcemail.com> wrote:
http://questiondarwin.blogspot.com/2007/09/imagine-no-atheism.html
Imagine no atheism
You shouldn't post when you're that high on whatever chemicals you're
abusing, kid.
I suspect a permanent chemical imbalance and brain lesions.
...and maybe an unoccupied space between his ears?
Or muscles! Muscles -- Ear to Ear! [Firesign Theatre]
[/quote]
Uff da...you'd have to remind me of that. ;-)
--
Patrick L. "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick at (no spam) io.com) Houston, Texas
www.io.com/~patrick/aeros.php (TCI's 2008-09 Houston Aeros) AA#2273
LAST GAME: Houston 4, Manitoba 1 (November 5)
NEXT GAME: Saturday, November 7 vs. San Antonio, 7:35 |
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| Larry... |
| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:28 am |
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| Larry... |
| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:36 am |
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Dan Clore <clore at (no spam) columbia-center.org> wrote in news:7ljn0nF3e2406U1
at (no spam) mid.individual.net:
[quote]So, for those to whom the allusion is not obvious, what did Bush mean
when he referred to Gog and Magog? Gog and Magog appear in the prophetic
Book of Ezekiel 38-39, and the section is open to various
interpretations. Gog is the human personification of evil who will lead
a multinational invasion of Israel from the north and be defeated, with
great violence, by God, who will restore Israel's security. Magog refers
to the land from which Gog hails. To George Bush, Gog and Magog probably
meant the ultimate future battle between the forces of good and the
forces of evil, a battle that had been predicted more than 2,500 years
earlier, but whose time had finally come.
[/quote]
This is within the realm of reality. Bush is, after all, a member of
several really crazy cults....Freemason 32nd degree, Skull & Bones at Yale,
Bohemian Grove where the cult burns an Owl-like figure dressed in robes,
etc.
All this is steeped in religion, VERY DEEP in religion....Devil-worship!
--
Larry |
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| Larry... |
| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:42 am |
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David Johnston <david at (no spam) block.net> wrote in
news:dr39f5pv64k5pt811lad8av3ar8htiu4ap at (no spam) 4ax.com:
[quote]On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 06:36:12 -0800 (PST), Sound of Trumpet
soundoftrumpet at (no spam) dcemail.com> wrote:
The interviewer brought up the 20th century when gentlemen like Mao,
Stalin and Hitler, men who like Polly Toynbee rejected the idea of
religion and its restrictions, had done so much evil.
Hitler did not reject the idea of religion although of course he
expected it, like everything else, to be subordinate to the leader.
Didn't organised
religion with it's teachings about the respect due to the individual
(and, he didn't but might have said, the fear of facing a righteous
God at Judgement Day with bloodstained hands) offer some restraints
against such 'scientific atheism' and other irreligious philosophy
which was used to justified mass murder?
Based on the 30 million death toll of the religiously motivated
Taiping Rebellion...no.
[/quote]
Ah, how convenient it all is to forget the founders of the Soviet Union
were JEWS!
http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR.html
http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-CIS.html
It's still going on....today!
--
Larry |
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| ZerkonXXXX... |
| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:20 am |
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On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 06:36:12 -0800, Sound of Trumpet wrote:
[quote]Just listened to Polly Toynbee
[/quote]
Touting or attacking religion by using historical celebrities to validate
one position or another is a dead end in that it immediately become a
battle between cheery pickers. |
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