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| W. eWatson... |
 Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:17 am |
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Several years ago I read a particularly well written description of how
we use various techniques, parallax, Cepheid variables, ... to estimate
distances to celestial objects. I'm trying to recall where. Sagan, Rees,
Pagels, Croswell, ..? I'm pretty sure the word bootstrap was a key
part of the description. Anyone know? |
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| dlzc... |
| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:17 am |
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Dear W. eWatson:
On Nov 4, 8:29 am, "Greg Neill" <gneil... at (no spam) MOVEsympatico.ca> wrote:
[quote]W. eWatson wrote:
Several years ago I read a particularly well written
description of how we use various techniques,
parallax, Cepheid variables, ... to estimate
distances to celestial objects. I'm trying to recall
where. Sagan, Rees, Pagels, Croswell, ..? I'm
pretty sure the word bootstrap was a key part of
the description. Anyone know?
I'm sure that many individuals have written on this
topic, and probably all of the above have covered it
in one or more expositions. It's a standard
astronomy 101 type subject.
Google: cosmic distance ladder
[/quote]
Also "drunkard's walk"
David A. Smith |
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| Greg Neill... |
| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:29 am |
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Guest
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W. eWatson wrote:
[quote]Several years ago I read a particularly well written description of how
we use various techniques, parallax, Cepheid variables, ... to estimate
distances to celestial objects. I'm trying to recall where. Sagan, Rees,
Pagels, Croswell, ..? I'm pretty sure the word bootstrap was a key
part of the description. Anyone know?
[/quote]
I'm sure that many individuals have written on this topic,
and probably all of the above have covered it in one or more
expositions. It's a standard astronomy 101 type subject.
Google: cosmic distance ladder |
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| W. eWatson... |
| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:15 pm |
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Guest
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dlzc wrote:
[quote]Dear W. eWatson:
On Nov 4, 8:29 am, "Greg Neill" <gneil... at (no spam) MOVEsympatico.ca> wrote:
W. eWatson wrote:
Several years ago I read a particularly well written
description of how we use various techniques,
parallax, Cepheid variables, ... to estimate
distances to celestial objects. I'm trying to recall
where. Sagan, Rees, Pagels, Croswell, ..? I'm
pretty sure the word bootstrap was a key part of
the description. Anyone know?
I'm sure that many individuals have written on this
topic, and probably all of the above have covered it
in one or more expositions. It's a standard
astronomy 101 type subject.
Google: cosmic distance ladder
Also "drunkard's walk"
David A. Smith
I don't recall the drunkard's walk being associated with astronomy.[/quote]
Google brings up a book or two and some sites on ranomness. |
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| W. eWatson... |
| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:19 pm |
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Guest
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Greg Neill wrote:
[quote]W. eWatson wrote:
Several years ago I read a particularly well written description of how
we use various techniques, parallax, Cepheid variables, ... to estimate
distances to celestial objects. I'm trying to recall where. Sagan, Rees,
Pagels, Croswell, ..? I'm pretty sure the word bootstrap was a key
part of the description. Anyone know?
I'm sure that many individuals have written on this topic,
and probably all of the above have covered it in one or more
expositions. It's a standard astronomy 101 type subject.
Google: cosmic distance ladder
That got some good hits. Ladder may be more appropriate than bootstrap.[/quote]
As for as introductory astro texts are concerned, they tend to spread
the methods out over the entire book. What I recall was a nice succint
description moving up the ladder. |
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| Greg Neill... |
| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:53 pm |
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W. eWatson wrote:
[quote]Greg Neill wrote:
W. eWatson wrote:
Several years ago I read a particularly well written description of how
we use various techniques, parallax, Cepheid variables, ... to estimate
distances to celestial objects. I'm trying to recall where. Sagan, Rees,
Pagels, Croswell, ..? I'm pretty sure the word bootstrap was a key
part of the description. Anyone know?
I'm sure that many individuals have written on this topic,
and probably all of the above have covered it in one or more
expositions. It's a standard astronomy 101 type subject.
Google: cosmic distance ladder
That got some good hits. Ladder may be more appropriate than bootstrap.
As for as introductory astro texts are concerned, they tend to spread
the methods out over the entire book. What I recall was a nice succint
description moving up the ladder.
[/quote]
Perhaps it was one of Asimov's essays. |
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| dlzc... |
| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:04 pm |
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Dear W. eWatson:
On Nov 4, 12:15 pm, "W. eWatson" <wolftra... at (no spam) invalid.com> wrote:
[quote]dlzc wrote:
On Nov 4, 8:29 am, "Greg Neill" <gneil... at (no spam) MOVEsympatico.ca> wrote:
W. eWatson wrote:
Several years ago I read a particularly well written
description of how we use various techniques,
parallax, Cepheid variables, ... to estimate
distances to celestial objects. I'm trying to recall
where. Sagan, Rees, Pagels, Croswell, ..? I'm
pretty sure the word bootstrap was a key part of
the description. Anyone know?
I'm sure that many individuals have written on this
topic, and probably all of the above have covered it
in one or more expositions. It's a standard
astronomy 101 type subject.
Google: cosmic distance ladder
Also "drunkard's walk"
I don't recall the drunkard's walk being associated
with astronomy.
[/quote]
I do. I recall we get distances to objects with multiple methods,
then randomly step from those know objects to nearer or farther
objects... sort of filling out a web.
[quote]Google brings up a book or two and some sites on
ranomness.
[/quote]
Yes, Google failed me too.
Poking around on Arxiv.Org, I find the following papers that have
nothing to do with random walks or drunkards, but might help you in
your quest (and their references might help too).
http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0612666
http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0607120
http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0506695
This looks interesting...
http://www.santafe.edu/~johnson/fire.ch3.html
This is probably too terse...
http://www.physics.utah.edu/~springer/phys4060/lectures/intro_review.pdf
This is probably closer, starting on page 3...
http://www.eastvalleyastronomy.org/nl/nov-2007.pdf
Good hunting.
David A. Smith |
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| Androcles... |
| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:40 pm |
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"W. eWatson" <wolftracks at (no spam) invalid.com> wrote in message
news:hcsk3o$phs$2 at (no spam) news.eternal-september.org...
[quote]Greg Neill wrote:
W. eWatson wrote:
Several years ago I read a particularly well written description of how
we use various techniques, parallax, Cepheid variables, ... to estimate
distances to celestial objects. I'm trying to recall where. Sagan, Rees,
Pagels, Croswell, ..? I'm pretty sure the word bootstrap was a key
part of the description. Anyone know?
I'm sure that many individuals have written on this topic,
and probably all of the above have covered it in one or more
expositions. It's a standard astronomy 101 type subject.
Google: cosmic distance ladder
That got some good hits. Ladder may be more appropriate than bootstrap. As
for as introductory astro texts are concerned, they tend to spread the
methods out over the entire book. What I recall was a nice succint
description moving up the ladder.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootstrapping[/quote]
Tall boots may have a tab, loop or handle at the top known as a bootstrap,
allowing one to use fingers or a tool to provide better leverage in pulling
the boots on. The saying "to pull yourself up by your bootstraps" was
already in use during the 1800s as an example of an impossible task.
Bootstrap as a metaphor, meaning to better oneself by one's own unaided
efforts, was in use in 1922. This metaphor spawned additional metaphors for
a series of self-sustaining processes that proceed without external help.
For astronomical distances, bootstrap is more appropriate than ladder
because you have no ladder, you have a very short bootstrap, 2 AU, and even
that is 182,000,000 miles minor axis and 186,000,000 miles major axis.
Astronomical distance estimates have astronomical error bars. |
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| John Park... |
| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:44 pm |
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"Greg Neill" (gneillRE at (no spam) MOVEsympatico.ca) writes:
[quote]W. eWatson wrote:
Greg Neill wrote:
W. eWatson wrote:
Several years ago I read a particularly well written description of how
we use various techniques, parallax, Cepheid variables, ... to estimate
distances to celestial objects. I'm trying to recall where. Sagan, Rees,
Pagels, Croswell, ..? I'm pretty sure the word bootstrap was a key
part of the description. Anyone know?
I'm sure that many individuals have written on this topic,
and probably all of the above have covered it in one or more
expositions. It's a standard astronomy 101 type subject.
Google: cosmic distance ladder
That got some good hits. Ladder may be more appropriate than bootstrap.
As for as introductory astro texts are concerned, they tend to spread
the methods out over the entire book. What I recall was a nice succint
description moving up the ladder.
Perhaps it was one of Asimov's essays.
The book _Measuring the Universe_ by Stephen Webb has a picture of the ladder[/quote]
(annotated with the various techniques that connect the rungs).
--John Park |
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