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| Author |
Message |
| ChrisQ... |
 Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:38 pm |
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Guest
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Michael A. Terrell wrote:
[quote]
I still have a B&D drill I bought in 1970. I have four or five of
them, all from the 60s though the early '80s that have seen a lot of
rough service I wore out one chuck, and several power cords. All US
made.
I thought that Makita is chinese made these days? Or is it Ryobi?
[/quote]
Makita is Jap. Don't know about Ryobi, but it smells average chinese
quality to me.
Perhaps i'm being too harsh on B&D, but the motors always seem a bit on
the weedy side and they use a lot of sintered sleeve bearings with oil
loaded for life that dry out after a few years. What ball bearings they
do have seem to get real noisy. I'm not saying they won't still work,
but they cut corners and that reduces the design life. Maybe the us
stuff is to a better spec.
The best us kit i've seen in the uk is De Walt. Their stuff is popular
in the trade here and seems to last forever, even when worked hard...
Regards,
Chris |
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| ehsjr... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:12 pm |
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| Joel Koltner... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:46 pm |
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Guest
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"ChrisQ" <meru at (no spam) devnull.com> wrote in message
news:ubJHm.15250$k31.9710 at (no spam) newsfe04.ams2...
[quote]The best us kit i've seen in the uk is De Walt. Their stuff is popular in
the trade here and seems to last forever, even when worked hard...
[/quote]
DeWalt is owned by Black & Decker (...as of 1992).
But it is their "premium" line, similar to Toyota/Lexus, whewreas the B&D line
is aimed at "home" usage. |
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| CellShocked... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:12 pm |
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Guest
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On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 15:46:53 -0800, "Joel Koltner"
<zapwireDASHgroups at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]"ChrisQ" <meru at (no spam) devnull.com> wrote in message
news:ubJHm.15250$k31.9710 at (no spam) newsfe04.ams2...
The best us kit i've seen in the uk is De Walt. Their stuff is popular in
the trade here and seems to last forever, even when worked hard...
DeWalt is owned by Black & Decker (...as of 1992).
But it is their "premium" line, similar to Toyota/Lexus, whewreas the B&D line
is aimed at "home" usage.
Didn't know that.[/quote]
P&G owns Gillete, and I didn't know that either, until I read some stuff
yesterday about Gillette Stadium. |
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| Michael A. Terrell... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:47 pm |
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Guest
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Joel Koltner wrote:
[quote]
"ChrisQ" <meru at (no spam) devnull.com> wrote in message
news:ubJHm.15250$k31.9710 at (no spam) newsfe04.ams2...
The best us kit i've seen in the uk is De Walt. Their stuff is popular in
the trade here and seems to last forever, even when worked hard...
DeWalt is owned by Black & Decker (...as of 1992).
But it is their "premium" line, similar to Toyota/Lexus, where as the B&D line
is aimed at "home" usage.
[/quote]
Harbor Freight was selling some Dewalt tools. Here is a recall notice
on one:
<http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/recalls/DewaltSafetyrecall.pdf>
--
The movie 'Deliverance' isn't a documentary! |
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| krw... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:16 pm |
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On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 09:48:48 +0000, ChrisQ <meru at (no spam) devnull.com> wrote:
[quote]Michael A. Terrell wrote:
That is one of the cheaper models. That is the same price as each of
the drills I bought, without the toy light or molded case. The absolute
worst cordless drills I've seen was my first one, a yellow plastic piece
of crap from Rockwell, and some 'Coleman Powermate' drills that were
given to me. They were store returns, and I've wonder if they were
actually returned, or thrown through the store windows. One had a
broken output shaft from the gearbox. The other had some wires that were
never connected. I 'fixed' that one and have seven batteries, but but
it makes anything else look good.
I know we would all like to buy kit made locally, but the very best
power tools you can buy, imho, are Makita. I have bought both new and
s/hand from machinery auctions and boot sales. The secondhand ones
always get stripped, cleaned and relubed before use and you should see
the internals. Invariably ball or roller bearings on all shafts and
generously proportioned motors, which never seem to have any wear on the
commutators, irrespective of age. You can look at it with an engineers
critical eye and find little to find fault with. Some of the Bosch kit
is not bad as well and even some of the Black & Decker stuff, so long as
it's been made at the Scintilla subsiduary in Switzerland, but much of
the B&D stuff is rubbish.
[/quote]
Some Makita is OK. Most of it is overpriced. I now have mostly Bosch
and Dewalt tools, with a few older PC (router, drill, etc) thrown in.
Oh, and a Hitachi nail gun. I stopped buying Makita about ten years
ago.
[quote]It's the old story - buy cheap, buy twice  ...
[/quote]
It's hard to get rid of crap tools. It's easier just not to buy them.
 |
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| krw... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:18 pm |
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Guest
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On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 15:22:16 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
<speffSNIP at (no spam) interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
[quote]On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 14:01:39 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell at (no spam) earthlink.net> wrote:
ChrisQ wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
That is one of the cheaper models. That is the same price as each of
the drills I bought, without the toy light or molded case. The absolute
worst cordless drills I've seen was my first one, a yellow plastic piece
of crap from Rockwell, and some 'Coleman Powermate' drills that were
given to me. They were store returns, and I've wonder if they were
actually returned, or thrown through the store windows. One had a
broken output shaft from the gearbox. The other had some wires that were
never connected. I 'fixed' that one and have seven batteries, but but
it makes anything else look good.
I know we would all like to buy kit made locally, but the very best
power tools you can buy, imho, are Makita. I have bought both new and
s/hand from machinery auctions and boot sales. The secondhand ones
always get stripped, cleaned and relubed before use and you should see
the internals. Invariably ball or roller bearings on all shafts and
generously proportioned motors, which never seem to have any wear on the
commutators, irrespective of age. You can look at it with an engineers
critical eye and find little to find fault with. Some of the Bosch kit
is not bad as well and even some of the Black & Decker stuff, so long as
it's been made at the Scintilla subsiduary in Switzerland, but much of
the B&D stuff is rubbish.
It's the old story - buy cheap, buy twice ...
I still have a B&D drill I bought in 1970. I have four or five of
them, all from the 60s though the early '80s that have seen a lot of
rough service I wore out one chuck, and several power cords. All US
made.
I thought that Makita is chinese made these days? Or is it Ryobi?
Makita is a Japanese company, but of course they make tools in China.
Ryobi is a bit more of a story.. they used to be Japanese, but they
now are owned by a company called TTI, which makes such brand-name
"stuff" as Homelite, Milwaukee, Rigid (for Home Depot) etc... all in
South China. Founded by a European and a Chinese fellow about 25 years
ago.
[/quote]
Rigid is a US company. They're out of the Cleveland area and they are
*not* a HomeDespot brand. |
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| Spehro Pefhany... |
| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:40 am |
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Guest
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On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:18:53 -0600, krw <krw at (no spam) att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
[quote]On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 15:22:16 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
speffSNIP at (no spam) interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 14:01:39 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell at (no spam) earthlink.net> wrote:
ChrisQ wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
That is one of the cheaper models. That is the same price as each of
the drills I bought, without the toy light or molded case. The absolute
worst cordless drills I've seen was my first one, a yellow plastic piece
of crap from Rockwell, and some 'Coleman Powermate' drills that were
given to me. They were store returns, and I've wonder if they were
actually returned, or thrown through the store windows. One had a
broken output shaft from the gearbox. The other had some wires that were
never connected. I 'fixed' that one and have seven batteries, but but
it makes anything else look good.
I know we would all like to buy kit made locally, but the very best
power tools you can buy, imho, are Makita. I have bought both new and
s/hand from machinery auctions and boot sales. The secondhand ones
always get stripped, cleaned and relubed before use and you should see
the internals. Invariably ball or roller bearings on all shafts and
generously proportioned motors, which never seem to have any wear on the
commutators, irrespective of age. You can look at it with an engineers
critical eye and find little to find fault with. Some of the Bosch kit
is not bad as well and even some of the Black & Decker stuff, so long as
it's been made at the Scintilla subsiduary in Switzerland, but much of
the B&D stuff is rubbish.
It's the old story - buy cheap, buy twice ...
I still have a B&D drill I bought in 1970. I have four or five of
them, all from the 60s though the early '80s that have seen a lot of
rough service I wore out one chuck, and several power cords. All US
made.
I thought that Makita is chinese made these days? Or is it Ryobi?
Makita is a Japanese company, but of course they make tools in China.
Ryobi is a bit more of a story.. they used to be Japanese, but they
now are owned by a company called TTI, which makes such brand-name
"stuff" as Homelite, Milwaukee, Rigid (for Home Depot) etc... all in
South China. Founded by a European and a Chinese fellow about 25 years
ago.
Rigid is a US company. They're out of the Cleveland area and they are
*not* a HomeDespot brand.
[/quote]
TTI-made-in-China Rigid-branded tools *are* effectively a Home Despot
brand since they are (were?) made exclusively for them, so I'm afraid
I have to disagree with your blanket statement. |
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| ChrisQ... |
| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:57 pm |
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Guest
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krw wrote:
[quote]
Some Makita is OK. Most of it is overpriced. I now have mostly Bosch
and Dewalt tools, with a few older PC (router, drill, etc) thrown in.
Oh, and a Hitachi nail gun. I stopped buying Makita about ten years
ago.
[/quote]
Agreed, Makita is expensive, but no more so, at least here, than other
pro grade tools. The irritating thing is that all the jap power tools
seem to be good, + the fact we make nothing anywhere near approaching it
in this country. Brit machine tools were sold all over the world and
what have we now ?. Nothing, basically.
[quote]It's the old story - buy cheap, buy twice ...
It's hard to get rid of crap tools. It's easier just not to buy them.
[/quote]
There are times when you buy cheap tools to get a job done because
you're skint, but always on the understanding that it will most likely
need to be replaced. Much more fun to buy quality, look after it and use
it for a lifetime ...
Regards,
Chris |
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| miso at (no spam) sushi.com... |
| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:31 pm |
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Guest
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On Nov 2, 12:06 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr... at (no spam) earthlink.net>
wrote:
[quote]"m... at (no spam) sushi.com" wrote:
On Nov 1, 8:48 am, ChrisQ <m... at (no spam) devnull.com> wrote:
John Fields wrote:
On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 14:01:28 +0000, ChrisQ <m... at (no spam) devnull.com> wrote:
m... at (no spam) sushi.com wrote:
I needed to mount a dozen Canon jacks and used the Harbor Freight step
drills in your 3rd link. I used the 3 piece set. Harbor Freight is
well known for selling junk, but these stepped drills work great.
The only problem with step drills is the amount of filing you need to do
afterwards to clean all the burrs.
---
IME, deburring the entry side only requires feeding the drill into the
workpiece until the angular edge of the next step does the debur. Then,
to debur the exit side, all that's needed is to turn the workpiece over
and let that same angular edge do that debur.
That's true if you have access to both sides, but not so good drilling
into the side of a box, where you don't have drill access to the inside.
Problem with materials like ali or plastic is that step drills and hole
saws deform the material and generate quite a bit of heat. That can work
harden the burr, making it a devil to clear. Rotary file bits in the
drill can help, but it's still more hassle and leaves a more untidy job
than a punch in the end.
Regards,
Chris
True that a punch doesn't need debur, but these holes were pretty
clean. I didn't have to debur much. It really depends on how many
holes you will be punching. At some point, the chassis punch makes
sense. Anyway, my point is these step drills are one of the things at
HF that doesn't suck.
Of course, it takes some time for the smell of the store to leave your
lungs.....
Ah, one more thing that doesn't suck are those yard rakes from HF.
And of course I can't find them on the website. Figures.
I bought one there, with a yellow fiberglass handle a few months ago.
--
The movie 'Deliverance' isn't a documentary!
[/quote]
No, this one is metal. It has a telescoping handle. A lot of times I'm
digging out pine needles and cones beneath trees and rather use the
short handle to get in close to the mess. The handle can be extended
for normal raking. About $4 on sale.
I find their stores in socal much better equipped then norcal. Just an
observation, nothing scientific. Often if I'm on 14 (or as they say in
socal, "the 14"), I will hit the store in Lancaster. I'm told the
Bakersfield store is big one too. |
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| krw... |
| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:47 pm |
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Guest
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On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:40:08 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
<speffSNIP at (no spam) interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
[quote]On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:18:53 -0600, krw <krw at (no spam) att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 15:22:16 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
speffSNIP at (no spam) interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 14:01:39 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell at (no spam) earthlink.net> wrote:
ChrisQ wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
That is one of the cheaper models. That is the same price as each of
the drills I bought, without the toy light or molded case. The absolute
worst cordless drills I've seen was my first one, a yellow plastic piece
of crap from Rockwell, and some 'Coleman Powermate' drills that were
given to me. They were store returns, and I've wonder if they were
actually returned, or thrown through the store windows. One had a
broken output shaft from the gearbox. The other had some wires that were
never connected. I 'fixed' that one and have seven batteries, but but
it makes anything else look good.
I know we would all like to buy kit made locally, but the very best
power tools you can buy, imho, are Makita. I have bought both new and
s/hand from machinery auctions and boot sales. The secondhand ones
always get stripped, cleaned and relubed before use and you should see
the internals. Invariably ball or roller bearings on all shafts and
generously proportioned motors, which never seem to have any wear on the
commutators, irrespective of age. You can look at it with an engineers
critical eye and find little to find fault with. Some of the Bosch kit
is not bad as well and even some of the Black & Decker stuff, so long as
it's been made at the Scintilla subsiduary in Switzerland, but much of
the B&D stuff is rubbish.
It's the old story - buy cheap, buy twice ...
I still have a B&D drill I bought in 1970. I have four or five of
them, all from the 60s though the early '80s that have seen a lot of
rough service I wore out one chuck, and several power cords. All US
made.
I thought that Makita is chinese made these days? Or is it Ryobi?
Makita is a Japanese company, but of course they make tools in China.
Ryobi is a bit more of a story.. they used to be Japanese, but they
now are owned by a company called TTI, which makes such brand-name
"stuff" as Homelite, Milwaukee, Rigid (for Home Depot) etc... all in
South China. Founded by a European and a Chinese fellow about 25 years
ago.
Rigid is a US company. They're out of the Cleveland area and they are
*not* a HomeDespot brand.
TTI-made-in-China Rigid-branded tools *are* effectively a Home Despot
brand since they are (were?) made exclusively for them, so I'm afraid
I have to disagree with your blanket statement.
[/quote]
No they are certainly not. I interviewed with them[*] last year and
they certainly will disagree, as well.
[*] I don't do layout so they weren't much interested. |
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| krw... |
| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:51 pm |
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Guest
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On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:57:59 +0000, ChrisQ <meru at (no spam) devnull.com> wrote:
[quote]krw wrote:
Some Makita is OK. Most of it is overpriced. I now have mostly Bosch
and Dewalt tools, with a few older PC (router, drill, etc) thrown in.
Oh, and a Hitachi nail gun. I stopped buying Makita about ten years
ago.
Agreed, Makita is expensive, but no more so, at least here, than other
pro grade tools. The irritating thing is that all the jap power tools
seem to be good, + the fact we make nothing anywhere near approaching it
in this country. Brit machine tools were sold all over the world and
what have we now ?. Nothing, basically.
[/quote]
Maybe it's different there, but here they're more expensive than
others of the same quality. ...and there are plenty better.
[quote]It's the old story - buy cheap, buy twice ...
It's hard to get rid of crap tools. It's easier just not to buy them.
;-)
There are times when you buy cheap tools to get a job done because
you're skint, but always on the understanding that it will most likely
need to be replaced. Much more fun to buy quality, look after it and use
it for a lifetime ...
[/quote]
But every cheap tool I've held onto far too long because it's even
harder to buy one that really works if you have one that sorta works.
It was years before I replaced my Crapsman circular saw even though it
couldn't cut a straight line in butter. The fist time I used a Ryobi
(what can I say, the wife bought it as a present) it was like night
and day. Last year I replaced that with the Dewalt rear swivel.
Again, it's like night and day. |
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| Michael A. Terrell... |
| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:05 pm |
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Guest
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"miso at (no spam) sushi.com" wrote:
[quote]
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
"miso at (no spam) sushi.com" wrote:
Ah, one more thing that doesn't suck are those yard rakes from HF.
And of course I can't find them on the website. Figures.
I bought one there, with a yellow fiberglass handle a few months ago.
No, this one is metal. It has a telescoping handle. A lot of times I'm
digging out pine needles and cones beneath trees and rather use the
short handle to get in close to the mess. The handle can be extended
for normal raking. About $4 on sale.
[/quote]
That wouldn't help me, unless I was sitting on the ground. :(
[quote]I find their stores in socal much better equipped then norcal. Just an
observation, nothing scientific. Often if I'm on 14 (or as they say in
socal, "the 14"), I will hit the store in Lancaster. I'm told the
Bakersfield store is big one too.
[/quote]
They are in the process of redoing the layout in a lot of stores to
display more product. The local store went through this a few months
ago. They are also monitoring and dropping slower moving items. I was
told that they are considering free shipping to a local store for items
that are slow movers.
--
The movie 'Deliverance' isn't a documentary! |
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| miso at (no spam) sushi.com... |
| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:19 pm |
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Guest
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On Nov 3, 9:37 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr... at (no spam) earthlink.net>
wrote:
[quote]krw wrote:
I have bought their drill bits and use the smaller ones a fair bit.
The bigger ones last a long time so I can afford to buy good ones.
I've had a problem with the temper on screwdrivers and alignment of
the jaws on pliers. HF isn't alone here but they are pretty bad.
I also have their 10" compound sliding miter saw. It's fine for
framing but it's not so great for woodworking. I'll likely replace
it, perhaps with a Bosch or Dewalt, in a year or so.
http://hfreviews.com/
--
The movie 'Deliverance' isn't a documentary!
[/quote]
I liked the HF review site. I have one of those butane torches that
somehow now fails to work. Damn, a waste of $2. That 2/3 of the
way to a backlit DVM. |
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| Spehro Pefhany... |
| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:37 am |
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Guest
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On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:47:15 -0600, the renowned krw
<krw at (no spam) att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
[quote]On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:40:08 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
speffSNIP at (no spam) interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:18:53 -0600, krw <krw at (no spam) att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 15:22:16 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
speffSNIP at (no spam) interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 14:01:39 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell at (no spam) earthlink.net> wrote:
ChrisQ wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
That is one of the cheaper models. That is the same price as each of
the drills I bought, without the toy light or molded case. The absolute
worst cordless drills I've seen was my first one, a yellow plastic piece
of crap from Rockwell, and some 'Coleman Powermate' drills that were
given to me. They were store returns, and I've wonder if they were
actually returned, or thrown through the store windows. One had a
broken output shaft from the gearbox. The other had some wires that were
never connected. I 'fixed' that one and have seven batteries, but but
it makes anything else look good.
I know we would all like to buy kit made locally, but the very best
power tools you can buy, imho, are Makita. I have bought both new and
s/hand from machinery auctions and boot sales. The secondhand ones
always get stripped, cleaned and relubed before use and you should see
the internals. Invariably ball or roller bearings on all shafts and
generously proportioned motors, which never seem to have any wear on the
commutators, irrespective of age. You can look at it with an engineers
critical eye and find little to find fault with. Some of the Bosch kit
is not bad as well and even some of the Black & Decker stuff, so long as
it's been made at the Scintilla subsiduary in Switzerland, but much of
the B&D stuff is rubbish.
It's the old story - buy cheap, buy twice ...
I still have a B&D drill I bought in 1970. I have four or five of
them, all from the 60s though the early '80s that have seen a lot of
rough service I wore out one chuck, and several power cords. All US
made.
I thought that Makita is chinese made these days? Or is it Ryobi?
Makita is a Japanese company, but of course they make tools in China.
Ryobi is a bit more of a story.. they used to be Japanese, but they
now are owned by a company called TTI, which makes such brand-name
"stuff" as Homelite, Milwaukee, Rigid (for Home Depot) etc... all in
South China. Founded by a European and a Chinese fellow about 25 years
ago.
Rigid is a US company. They're out of the Cleveland area and they are
*not* a HomeDespot brand.
TTI-made-in-China Rigid-branded tools *are* effectively a Home Despot
brand since they are (were?) made exclusively for them, so I'm afraid
I have to disagree with your blanket statement.
No they are certainly not. I interviewed with them[*] last year and
they certainly will disagree, as well.
[*] I don't do layout so they weren't much interested.
[/quote]
I don't think you understand. I did not say that TTI made *all* of
Rigid's tools. I said they made "Rigid (for Home Depot)"
quote/unquote. This wording was quite deliberate, and avoided getting
into all the details while illustrating one of the brands TTI
manufactures/d. Here is a link to a paper covering this, if you are
interested in understanding what is a major shift in the industry:
http://www.teleos-inc.com/pdfs/wp/Wal-Mart_Effect_Intro.pdf
Are you claiming that those Rigid tools are not made in South China?
If so, you are quite incorrect; I have seen it with my own eyes.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff at (no spam) interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |
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