 |
|
| Science Forum Index » Languages Forum » term for similarly-spelled words... |
|
Page 7 of 7 Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 |
|
| Author |
Message |
| Nikolaj... |
 Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:19 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
PaulJK pravi:
[quote:928f7c0939]My translation program says "hlapec"=servant, okay, we
established that, but "hlap"=spiny.
Is that right? it's an adjective spiny?
pjk
[/quote:928f7c0939]
No, it isn't an adjective.
What's spiny? I can't access my dictionary right now. Online Webster says:
1 : abounding with difficulties, obstacles, or annoyances : thorny
<spiny problems>
2 : covered or armed with spines; broadly : bearing spines, prickles, or
thorns
3 : slender and pointed like a spine
"Thorny" would be "trnov". Or maybe "bodeč" for the second meaning
("Barbed wire" is "bodeča žica"). |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Nikolaj... |
| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:58 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
garabik-news-2005-05 at (no spam) kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk pravi:
[quote:defa72dc84]PaulJK <paul.kriha at (no spam) paradise.net.nz> wrote:
benlizro at (no spam) ihug.co.nz wrote:
On Oct 13, 3:25 pm, "PaulJK" <paul.kr... at (no spam) paradise.net.nz> wrote:
Nikolaj wrote:
Fully reversed with very small semantic difference; in Slovene "otrok"
is a child of any gender, and "hlapec" means "serf" only.
my Slovene colleagues were explaining that it is not exactly serf,
because serf implies strict feudal ownership system, but more like
lowest ranking worker (working for food and accomodation)
[/quote:defa72dc84]
Actualy they are right, a general term for a serf would be "podložnik,
tlačan". Feudals had their own lowest servants (hlapci/dekle) as well as
serf farmers (tlačani). When the feudal system was abolished, serfs
became free, but those lowest servants remained bound to their master,
and could also be later employed by free farmers.
But those two meanings are not always used so strictly, for instance on
Wikipedia someone translated
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Cankar#Bibliography
- the work "Hlapec Jernej in njegova pravica" as "The Servant Jernej and
his Justice"
- but the work "Hlapci" as "The Serfs".
I guess the meanings got mixed up somewhat, as both are characteristic
for feudal society. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| benlizro at (no spam) ihug.co.nz... |
| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:23 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Oct 14, 2:21am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma... at (no spam) verizon.net> wrote:
[quote:8162784285]On Oct 13, 1:39am, "benli... at (no spam) ihug.co.nz" <benli... at (no spam) ihug.co.nz> wrote:
On Oct 13, 5:24pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma... at (no spam) verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 12, 11:28pm, "benli... at (no spam) ihug.co.nz" <benli... at (no spam) ihug.co.nz
wrote:
Russian /xolp/ 'serf' (also /xlpec/ 'boy', app. borrowed from
Polish), indicating PSl *xolpu. Vasmer doesn't buy any of the proposed
further etymologies. The semantics reminds me of English words like
"knave" and "churl" (cf. German Knabe, Kerl), which acquired their
derogatory meanings via the lower levels of the feudal social system.
In *Clockwork Orange*, Anthony Burgess turned it into "chelovek," with
a meaning along the lines of Brit. "mate."
Different word: /Celovek/ 'person'. I dimly remember buying a copy of
different etymon?
[/quote:8162784285]
Apparently. But it's another one that's hard to trace back beyond
Proto-Slavic. Vasmer gives PSl *C(ei)love:ku, then dismisses various
proposed origins for this as unconvincing.
Ross Clark
[quote:8162784285]
"Clockwork Orange", because I was intrigued by the Russian-based
slang, but I didn't like the book and never finished it.
I was really annoyed when I found that the glossary in the back, which
I had been using to look up the invented words, was not provided by
the author -- who expected the reader to figure the terms out from
context -- but was an editorial addition. (Hadn't had my "Russian for
Linguists" with Howie Aronson, that class where the Stalin monograph
was the chrestomathy.)[/quote:8162784285] |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Adam Funk... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:30 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On 2009-10-13, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
[quote:bded0fc182]On Oct 13, 1:39 am, "benli... at (no spam) ihug.co.nz" <benli... at (no spam) ihug.co.nz> wrote:
Different word: /Celovek/ 'person'. I dimly remember buying a copy of
different etymon?
"Clockwork Orange", because I was intrigued by the Russian-based
slang, but I didn't like the book and never finished it.
I was really annoyed when I found that the glossary in the back, which
I had been using to look up the invented words, was not provided by
the author -- who expected the reader to figure the terms out from
context -- but was an editorial addition. (Hadn't had my "Russian for
Linguists" with Howie Aronson, that class where the Stalin monograph
was the chrestomathy.)
[/quote:bded0fc182]
Interesting; I'd never heard of the glossary (like a "bonus track", I
guess), although I understand that American editions used to omit the
last chapter --- is that still the case?
--
Unix is a user-friendly operating system. It's just very choosy about
its friends. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Peter T. Daniels... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:48 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Oct 14, 9:30am, Adam Funk <a24... at (no spam) ducksburg.com> wrote:
[quote:4bbe8e9037]On 2009-10-13, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
On Oct 13, 1:39am, "benli... at (no spam) ihug.co.nz" <benli... at (no spam) ihug.co.nz> wrote:
Different word: /Celovek/ 'person'. I dimly remember buying a copy of
different etymon?
"Clockwork Orange", because I was intrigued by the Russian-based
slang, but I didn't like the book and never finished it.
I was really annoyed when I found that the glossary in the back, which
I had been using to look up the invented words, was not provided by
the author -- who expected the reader to figure the terms out from
context -- but was an editorial addition. (Hadn't had my "Russian for
Linguists" with Howie Aronson, that class where the Stalin monograph
was the chrestomathy.)
Interesting; I'd never heard of the glossary (like a "bonus track", I
guess), although I understand that American editions used to omit the
last chapter --- is that still the case?
[/quote:4bbe8e9037]
How would I know??? It's probably no easier to get a British edition
of that former best-seller in the US than it is to get a British
edition of Harry Potter here.
And no, I don't know where my copy is. (And it's old enough not to be
a movie tie-in printing.) |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| benlizro at (no spam) ihug.co.nz... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:02 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Oct 15, 2:30am, Adam Funk <a24... at (no spam) ducksburg.com> wrote:
[quote:0ff4720a2f]On 2009-10-13, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
On Oct 13, 1:39am, "benli... at (no spam) ihug.co.nz" <benli... at (no spam) ihug.co.nz> wrote:
Different word: /Celovek/ 'person'. I dimly remember buying a copy of
different etymon?
"Clockwork Orange", because I was intrigued by the Russian-based
slang, but I didn't like the book and never finished it.
I was really annoyed when I found that the glossary in the back, which
I had been using to look up the invented words, was not provided by
the author -- who expected the reader to figure the terms out from
context -- but was an editorial addition. (Hadn't had my "Russian for
Linguists" with Howie Aronson, that class where the Stalin monograph
was the chrestomathy.)
Interesting; I'd never heard of the glossary (like a "bonus track", I
guess), although I understand that American editions used to omit the
last chapter --- is that still the case?
[/quote:0ff4720a2f]
According to Wiki, the US edition of 1986 was the first to include the
final chapter. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Adam Funk... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:24 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On 2009-10-14, benlizro at (no spam) ihug.co.nz wrote:
[quote:957768c2ad]On Oct 15, 2:30 am, Adam Funk <a24... at (no spam) ducksburg.com> wrote:
[/quote:957768c2ad]
[A Clockwork Orange]
[quote:957768c2ad]Interesting; I'd never heard of the glossary (like a "bonus track", I
guess), although I understand that American editions used to omit the
last chapter --- is that still the case?
According to Wiki, the US edition of 1986 was the first to include the
final chapter.
[/quote:957768c2ad]
Checking Wikipedia ... how about that! Thanks.
--
Bob just used 'canonical' in the canonical way. [Guy Steele] |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| António Marques... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:20 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
garabik-news-2005-05 at (no spam) kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk wrote:
[quote]PaulJK<paul.kriha at (no spam) paradise.net.nz> wrote:
garabik-news-2005-05 at (no spam) kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk wrote:
And of course, the most embarrassing are FF between Slovak and Czech.
cs drbat (to scratch (an itchy spot)) vs. sk drbať (milder variant
of "to fuck")
I imagine, it's more embarrassing one way than the other.
From Sk to Cz it can lead to strange misunderstanings,
but from Cz to Sk it could be quite embarrassing indeed.
Viz Cz version "Scratch my back and I scratch yours." 
pjk
It's even worse - cz for "back" would be "záda", sk equivalent uses a
different root (chrbát), and the most similar word to cz "záda" would be
probably sk "zadok" = "buttocks". Oops.
[/quote]
How did you people manage to live together for 70 years? |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| PaulJK... |
| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:45 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
António Marques wrote:
[quote]garabik-news-2005-05 at (no spam) kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk wrote:
PaulJK<paul.kriha at (no spam) paradise.net.nz> wrote:
garabik-news-2005-05 at (no spam) kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk wrote:
And of course, the most embarrassing are FF between Slovak and Czech.
cs drbat (to scratch (an itchy spot)) vs. sk drbať (milder variant
of "to fuck")
I imagine, it's more embarrassing one way than the other.
From Sk to Cz it can lead to strange misunderstanings,
but from Cz to Sk it could be quite embarrassing indeed.
Viz Cz version "Scratch my back and I scratch yours."
pjk
It's even worse - cz for "back" would be "záda", sk equivalent uses a
different root (chrbát), and the most similar word to cz "záda" would be
probably sk "zadok" = "buttocks". Oops.
How did you people manage to live together for 70 years?
[/quote]
We amused each other just by talking.
Time passes quickly when you're having fun.
pjk |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| António Marques... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:52 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
PaulJK wrote:
[quote]Which reminds me of another reversal in meanings.
Cz "chlap" means (strong/working class) man, while the cognate
Ru "xolop" means serf.
Cz "robota/robotník" means slave labour/slave, while the cognates
Ru "rabota/rabotnik" means work/worker.
[/quote]
Ya tvoy sluga, ya tvoy rabotnik, diziam os outros. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| PaulJK... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:34 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
António Marques wrote:
[quote]PaulJK wrote:
Which reminds me of another reversal in meanings.
Cz "chlap" means (strong/working class) man, while the cognate
Ru "xolop" means serf.
Cz "robota/robotník" means slave labour/slave, while the cognates
Ru "rabota/rabotnik" means work/worker.
Ya tvoy sluga, ya tvoy rabotnik, diziam os outros.
[/quote]
That's what happens when the successive Russian Inland Revenue
departments keep imposing such crippling taxes on verbs.
pjk |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
All times are GMT - 5 Hours
The time now is Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:32 am
|
|