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| David Oberman... |
 Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:33 pm |
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What sort of wave actually struck the ship in THE POSEIDON ADVENTURE?
I've been confused about this for years. |
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| isw... |
| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:04 pm |
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In article <kbrmd5dicqvvlenk02dg7u6kvo7jhucr99 at (no spam) 4ax.com>,
David Oberman <doberman at (no spam) socal.rr.com> wrote:
[quote:8c856b4701]What sort of wave actually struck the ship in THE POSEIDON ADVENTURE?
I've been confused about this for years.
[/quote:8c856b4701]
Water, mostly.
(Sorry, couldn't resist.)
Isaac |
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| Belba Grubb... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:22 am |
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On Oct 18, 3:33 pm, David Oberman <dober... at (no spam) socal.rr.com> wrote:
[quote]What sort of wave actually struck the ship in THE POSEIDON ADVENTURE?
I've been confused about this for years.
[/quote]
Apparently in the novel and the original film, it was supposed to be a
tsunami, which is ridiculous, out in the open ocean like that.
However, now that they think they have proven the existence of rogue
waves, it could have been one of those.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_wave
http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMOKQL26WD_index_0.html
Barb
----------
Linda Rogo: "So that's the cat this ship is named after, huh?"
Captain Harrison: "That's right, Mrs Rogo. The Greek God Poseidon. God
of storms, tempests, earthquakes and other miscellaneous natural
disasters. Quite an ill-tempered fellow."
-- from "The Poseidon Adventure," 1972.
"Bacchus hath drowned more men than Neptune."
-- Thomas Fuller |
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| Weatherlawyer... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:27 am |
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On Oct 19, 1:22 pm, Belba Grubb <trungsister... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]On Oct 18, 3:33 pm, David Oberman <dober... at (no spam) socal.rr.com> wrote:
What sort of wave actually struck the ship in THE POSEIDON ADVENTURE?
Apparently in the novel and the original film, it was supposed to be a
tsunami, which is ridiculous, out in the open ocean like that.
However, now that they think they have proven the existence of rogue
waves, it could have been one of those.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_wave
http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMOKQL26WD_index_0.html
[/quote]
Many early accounts of roguewaves existed in the 19th centuries. Lone
survivors being the standard issue for all sorts of folk tales. A lone
survivor off a ship struck by a wave large enough to turn it over, had
their accounts related in journals aimed at navigators and sea-men.
Often they might not be required on deck if the captain called on all
hands because they were sick.
On a sailor facing a wall of water in an hurry the crew might all be
washed away.
There is an algorithm to work out the required ship to wave length and
how it works. But I forget if I even understood it first time round. I
think it is ship's length x 2 divided or multiplied by the depth of
keel and height of wave. Beats me why.
Ships caught in tidal waves tend to be carried to safety or to be
thrown inland. A US battleship was marooned on Rocks off a port in the
Caribbian IIRC in the 1920's. Lifeboats are tipped over all the time
and part of their survivability requires such assaults as part of
their acceptance tests.
Funny how they still fail when reality bites.
Rogue waves would relate to Newton's rings and are a condition of
magnification of earthquakes. That's my opinion at any rate. It is the
only one that approaches understanding why a severe jolt takes all
other regions of the charts. Some sort of rectification of the
acoustics has to be the only explanation.
Such things can't affect deep sea surfaces though. Not that once
formed surf, or swell as it is known at sea, can't cross thousands of
miles of ocean unperturbed. Two or three chains of swell will produce
a series of such rogues if they meet at sea or on land. Of course,
with a shallow, the wave would break.
That doesn't mean it would drag the tide out for 1/4 of an hour as it
can do with a tidal wave. It's just a meeting frought with danger
momentarily. A tidal wave is a series of events that behave as a
continuum. The sea reccieves a pulse and cariies it in the depths.
Deep ocean water is immune from ordinary tides.
All rather mysterious until one is gifted or touched.
(Then try and explain the damned obvious to people like that imbecile
Skywise or one of its predecessors here.) |
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| Herschel... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:19 pm |
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If you watch the movie and "LISTEN" to the dialog, you will note that
the ship is traveling over a shallow reef. The wave build-up is
because of this shoal or reef. THAT is why the ship is overturned and
sunk. Shelly Winters almost died in this movie from a heart attack
after the film was finished being shot. |
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| Hatunen... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:31 pm |
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On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 11:19:43 -0700, Herschel
<kafildafish at (no spam) temple.tv> wrote:
[quote]If you watch the movie and "LISTEN" to the dialog, you will note that
the ship is traveling over a shallow reef. The wave build-up is
because of this shoal or reef. THAT is why the ship is overturned and
sunk.
[/quote]
IMDb says the novel was written by Paul Gallico who had had
experience on the real Queen Mary when it was hit be a huge wave.
The QM had also been struck by a huge wave during WW2 while
transporting American soldiers. Such waves are now known to be a
bit common. No shoals required
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_wave
[quote]Shelly Winters almost died in this movie from a heart attack
after the film was finished being shot.
[/quote]
I'm having trouble following the time line here. Did she almost
die in the move or was it after filming was complete? If the
latter, are you saying she almost died due to the filming?
--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen at (no spam) cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
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| Herschel... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:46 pm |
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The wave was caused by an undersea EQ. Shelly almost died just as the
filming was wrapping up the underwater swimming scene. It was part of
the reason she died in the movie, she had to be taken to the hospital
for treatment and was held for four days and told to take it easy for
six months. Her double finished the scene for her. Her niece Alice
(Known as Lolly) is a friend of my sister and told her that it was
kept under wraps because there was a chance of her getting an Acadamy
Award for her role in the movie. Hollywierd is just that when it comes
to the politics in the industry.
On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 11:31:19 -0700, Hatunen <hatunen at (no spam) cox.net> wrote:
[quote]On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 11:19:43 -0700, Herschel
kafildafish at (no spam) temple.tv> wrote:
If you watch the movie and "LISTEN" to the dialog, you will note that
the ship is traveling over a shallow reef. The wave build-up is
because of this shoal or reef. THAT is why the ship is overturned and
sunk.
IMDb says the novel was written by Paul Gallico who had had
experience on the real Queen Mary when it was hit be a huge wave.
The QM had also been struck by a huge wave during WW2 while
transporting American soldiers. Such waves are now known to be a
bit common. No shoals required
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_wave
Shelly Winters almost died in this movie from a heart attack
after the film was finished being shot.
I'm having trouble following the time line here. Did she almost
die in the move or was it after filming was complete? If the
latter, are you saying she almost died due to the filming?[/quote] |
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| Skywise... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:20 pm |
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| Weatherlawyer... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:30 am |
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On 19 Oct, 19:31, Hatunen <hatu... at (no spam) cox.net> wrote:
[quote]On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 11:19:43 -0700, Herschel
kafildaf... at (no spam) temple.tv> wrote:
If you watch the movie and "LISTEN" to the dialog, you will note that
the ship is traveling over a shallow reef. The wave build-up is
because of this shoal or reef. THAT is why the ship is overturned and
sunk.
IMDb says the novel was written by Paul Gallico who had had
experience on the real Queen Mary when it was hit be a huge wave.
The QM had also been struck by a huge wave during WW2 while
transporting American soldiers. Such waves are now known to be a
bit common. No shoals requiredhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_wave
[/quote]
Not exactly noted for his integrity in dealing with background
material, Mr Galico has never been a fanourite with me.
As for shallows or not sallows, the matter is significant when
considering the height possibilties of waves.
Two significant cyclones en route to "shallows" soon:
http://www.wmo.int/pages/mediacentre/news/index_en.html#ice
So you can all expect some severe earthquake reports to follow.
As it happens, there is usually news of significant travel disaster
with such events. I have never bothered to check the radius of
location of those but the quakes will be 80 degrees from any broaching
storms.
For the unwary, use a globe and a pair of dividers set to forty (I
keep thinking that should read fourty??) degrees. A bit of string
marked at the appropriate angular distances is also useful. (There are
sites on line that will tell you how to work out "great circle"
distances too.)
I tended to go through globes at a gallop when I was looking at this
phenomenon as I used engineers "dividers" without masking the points.
Some sticky tape will protect the globe from damage in use if you do
the same as me. Look at the references cited (NEIC do maps NOAA might
also provide locations. The MetO is a toilet at the moment so I never
bother with home groan stuff.) |
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| Hatunen... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:08 am |
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On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 09:30:14 -0700 (PDT), Weatherlawyer
<weatherlawyer at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]On 19 Oct, 19:31, Hatunen <hatu... at (no spam) cox.net> wrote:
On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 11:19:43 -0700, Herschel
kafildaf... at (no spam) temple.tv> wrote:
If you watch the movie and "LISTEN" to the dialog, you will note that
the ship is traveling over a shallow reef. The wave build-up is
because of this shoal or reef. THAT is why the ship is overturned and
sunk.
IMDb says the novel was written by Paul Gallico who had had
experience on the real Queen Mary when it was hit be a huge wave.
The QM had also been struck by a huge wave during WW2 while
transporting American soldiers. Such waves are now known to be a
bit common. No shoals requiredhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_wave
Not exactly noted for his integrity in dealing with background
material, Mr Galico has never been a fanourite with me.
As for shallows or not sallows, the matter is significant when
considering the height possibilties of waves.
[/quote]
For rogue waves, shallows or shoals don't matter at all.
--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen at (no spam) cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
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| Herschel... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:10 pm |
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Watch the movie. "LISTEN" to the movie, 1974 version. None of the
dialect states the words, "Rogue Wave", they say
"E A R T H Q U A K E". |
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| Hatunen... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:24 pm |
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On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:10:36 -0700, Herschel
<kafildafish at (no spam) temple.tv> wrote:
[quote]Watch the movie. "LISTEN" to the movie, 1974 version. None of the
dialect states the words, "Rogue Wave", they say
"E A R T H Q U A K E".
[/quote]
Please note that I was responding to a specific statement of
weatherlawyer, to wit: "As for shallows or not sallows, the
matter is significant when considering the height possibilties of
waves."
Since you managed to delete the context of my statement, I
thought it a good idea to point it out to you, since you
apparently didn't actually read it.
--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen at (no spam) cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
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| David Oberman... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:15 pm |
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Guest
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Herschel <kafildafish at (no spam) temple.tv> wrote:
[quote]Watch the movie. "LISTEN" to the movie, 1974 version. None of the
dialect states the words, "Rogue Wave", they say
"E A R T H Q U A K E".
[/quote]
Yes, but where do they talk about shallows? |
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| Weatherlawyer... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:21 am |
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On Oct 21, 9:24 pm, Hatunen <hatu... at (no spam) cox.net> wrote:
[quote]On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:10:36 -0700, Herschel
kafildaf... at (no spam) temple.tv> wrote:
Watch the movie. "LISTEN" to the movie, 1974 version. None of the
dialect states the words, "Rogue Wave", they say
"E A R T H Q U A K E".
Please note that I was responding to a specific statement of
weatherlawyer, to wit: "As for shallows or not shallows, the
matter is significant when considering the height possibilties of
waves."
Since you managed to delete the context of my statement, I
thought it a good idea to point it out to you, since you
apparently didn't actually read it.
[/quote]
I was going by what I remember of the book but it was ages ago and I
doubt I read it all. But he did write about it being a quake causing
it (IIRC.) No doubt corrected by some hack in Hollywood who had
actually thought about the physics.
You don't get rogue waves in shallows* and you don't get tidal waves
in the deep sea. Some so called experts are mooting that the marine
transortation of tidal waves is via the deep sea, which would explain
their almost tide like behaviour inshore.
* Well you do but the height is governed by the rollers. Once they hit
the strand they can only reach to a certain height according to the
beach involved. The fable about every (insert prime number here)'th
wave being a wopper is due to the rotation of the rip tide.
Each wave hits and turns out left or right under the incoming. Ths
outflow then combines somewhere out on the bar, with another incoming
wave and gives it just that edge.
I'm not sure that this can work as they do not travel together
obviously. Or perhaps the outgoing pulse in its turn rotates the
incoming ones? I seem to remember the timing was rather coincidental
but I haven't been to the beach in a long, long time. (I was damned
sure of myself in those days.)
The idea of it being a prime number would obviously have some basis in
truth as any other number would have a counteractive harmony, would it
not?
Whilst I am gathering rosebuds:
The significant earthquakes I prophesied have failed to materialise.
Nothing knew their then, then.
There there...
Ah well.
Was my face red?
No not really. Besides I wear a beard and wash irregularly. |
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| Belba Grubb... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:48 am |
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On Oct 19, 1:19 pm, Herschel <kafildaf... at (no spam) temple.tv> wrote:
[quote]If you watch the movie and "LISTEN" to the dialog, you will note that
the ship is traveling over a shallow reef. The wave build-up is
because of this shoal or reef. THAT is why the ship is overturned and
sunk. Shelly Winters almost died in this movie from a heart attack
after the film was finished being shot.
[/quote]
Down in the Caribbean there are some islands that a hurricane's storm
surge won't affect because it just goes around the island; it's not
true of all the islands, but I'll have to dig into the blog posts at
Weather Underground (where I read about it a few years ago) if anyone
wants more details. I wonder if a tsunami might work in a similar way.
Anyway, I wonder if a tsunami wave would build up in such a way on a
reef when there was nearby water deep enough for a cruise boat.
Where's the shallowing for the wave to build up and just how does it
then affect the ship out in deeper water?
Barb
--------
Physics is so confusing.
-- BGrubb, the story of my undergraduate days. |
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