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| Science Forum Index » Agriculture - Poultry Forum » What is so serious ?... |
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| keith kent... |
 Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:04 am |
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Guest
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What is so wrong that 2 year old hens should dies within a week ,the first i
posted about it 2 years ago when i lost a 18 month old ,symptoms - comb
shrivells goes blue-ish ,go lifeless over a week then dies.
I lost a two year old Lehman two weeks ago same symptoms and now another
Lehman looks like it may be going the same way .
They seem to be roughly the same age when they get ill ,what is scary is how
quickly they go from allright to dead !
Regards Keith |
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| Jill... |
| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:32 am |
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Guest
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keith kent wrote:
[quote:e0bfb1e3b9]What is so wrong that 2 year old hens should dies within a week ,the
first i posted about it 2 years ago when i lost a 18 month old
,symptoms - comb shrivells goes blue-ish ,go lifeless over a week
then dies. I lost a two year old Lehman two weeks ago same symptoms and
now
another Lehman looks like it may be going the same way .
They seem to be roughly the same age when they get ill ,what is scary
is how quickly they go from allright to dead !
Regards Keith
[/quote:e0bfb1e3b9]
post mortem - there is a trend, someone who knows what they are looking at
needs to see inside the beast.
Do you mean Lohmann Browns ? - commercial brown hybrids?
They do have a high incidence of cancers and other physiological problems
due to the high stressed breeding to get the egg numbers and feed efficiency
so high..
Its one of the reasons for commercial units displenishing birds around 18
months olf.
Chickens are incredbily stoic, so lots can be going wrong without them
showing it, once they do, they are out of it.
Its how they end up in conditions like small muddy garden pens, with owners
thinking they are doing them a favour because they are outside and "look" so
happy!.
If they are commercial birds - what are you feeding?
--
regards
Jill Bowis
Domestic Poultry and Waterfowl Solutions
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine Nursery
Seasonal Farm Food
http://www.kintaline.co.uk |
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| keith kent... |
| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:12 pm |
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Guest
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They have mainly layers pellets ,they are Lohmann Browns (one left )but she
is now hardly moving so think she will be dead by tommorrow. They have a
roofed run so is always dry ,which they do often dust bathe.Whatever it is
,it has got a hold of this one very quickly.I have also 2 bluebells approx
12 month old,2 light sussex 1 is 4 years old the other 3 years .And i have 1
x Leghorn 3 years old .I have lost 1 Leghorn and 1 Lohmann and soon to be
two .
Do chickens generally die in this way regardless of illness ?
I feel i should put her out of misery ,but don`t think i can do it as i
haven`t done it before .
I should let the vet do it but think it will be too late .
Regards Keith
" Jill" <news at (no spam) NOSPAMkintaline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7h3sgeF2rupr0U1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
[quote:fdd9193c99]keith kent wrote:
What is so wrong that 2 year old hens should dies within a week ,the
first i posted about it 2 years ago when i lost a 18 month old
,symptoms - comb shrivells goes blue-ish ,go lifeless over a week
then dies. I lost a two year old Lehman two weeks ago same symptoms and
now
another Lehman looks like it may be going the same way .
They seem to be roughly the same age when they get ill ,what is scary
is how quickly they go from allright to dead !
Regards Keith
post mortem - there is a trend, someone who knows what they are looking at
needs to see inside the beast.
Do you mean Lohmann Browns ? - commercial brown hybrids?
They do have a high incidence of cancers and other physiological problems
due to the high stressed breeding to get the egg numbers and feed
efficiency so high..
Its one of the reasons for commercial units displenishing birds around 18
months olf.
Chickens are incredbily stoic, so lots can be going wrong without them
showing it, once they do, they are out of it.
Its how they end up in conditions like small muddy garden pens, with
owners thinking they are doing them a favour because they are outside and
"look" so happy!.
If they are commercial birds - what are you feeding?
--
regards
Jill Bowis
Domestic Poultry and Waterfowl Solutions
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine Nursery
Seasonal Farm Food
http://www.kintaline.co.uk
[/quote:fdd9193c99] |
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| Jill... |
| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:03 pm |
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Guest
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"keith kent" <keith3 at (no spam) ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:vmcrm.138795$LX3.14219 at (no spam) newsfe17.ams2...
[quote:52b977ec26]They have mainly layers pellets ,they are Lohmann Browns (one left )but
she is now hardly moving so think she will be dead by tommorrow. They have
a roofed run so is always dry ,which they do often dust bathe.Whatever it
is ,it has got a hold of this one very quickly.I have also 2 bluebells
approx 12 month old,2 light sussex 1 is 4 years old the other 3 years .And
i have 1 x Leghorn 3 years old .I have lost 1 Leghorn and 1 Lohmann and
soon to be two .
Do chickens generally die in this way regardless of illness ?
[/quote:52b977ec26]
There IS illness going on, its just inside, unseen, cancers, worms, all
sorts of things.
What is their weight like?
If the pen is bare soil, then many of the micro organisms can build up, and
these sorts of birds have less reslience against them.
They are prone to cancers.
Are they still laying? when do you think the last time they laid was?
[quote:52b977ec26]I feel i should put her out of misery ,but don`t think i can do it as i
haven`t done it before .
I should let the vet do it but think it will be too late .
[/quote:52b977ec26]
Take her in, and get her post mortemed
That way you can make sure you can cover any husbandry issues, which might
be able to be solved for the benefit of the others, or be able to put it
away as being genetic.
--
--
regards
Jill Bowis
Domestic Poultry and Waterfowl Solutions
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine Nursery
Seasonal Farm Food
http://www.kintaline.co.uk |
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| keith kent... |
| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:23 pm |
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Guest
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They are on bare soil which was weed membrane and bark chips , it does need
rejuvenating what is best as a base in a run ?
Their weight is good and the one that died last week felt good as at the
time a thought she would be good for the plate .
I had 5 eggs this morning and have 6 hens , so she maybe the one not laying
i am not 100 % sure /
Thanks Keith
"Jill" <mail at (no spam) NOSPAMkintaline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7h54qhF2r5k4fU1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
[quote:ed23b92dba]"keith kent" <keith3 at (no spam) ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:vmcrm.138795$LX3.14219 at (no spam) newsfe17.ams2...
They have mainly layers pellets ,they are Lohmann Browns (one left )but
she is now hardly moving so think she will be dead by tommorrow. They
have a roofed run so is always dry ,which they do often dust
bathe.Whatever it is ,it has got a hold of this one very quickly.I have
also 2 bluebells approx 12 month old,2 light sussex 1 is 4 years old the
other 3 years .And i have 1 x Leghorn 3 years old .I have lost 1 Leghorn
and 1 Lohmann and soon to be two .
Do chickens generally die in this way regardless of illness ?
There IS illness going on, its just inside, unseen, cancers, worms, all
sorts of things.
What is their weight like?
If the pen is bare soil, then many of the micro organisms can build up,
and these sorts of birds have less reslience against them.
They are prone to cancers.
Are they still laying? when do you think the last time they laid was?
I feel i should put her out of misery ,but don`t think i can do it as i
haven`t done it before .
I should let the vet do it but think it will be too late .
Take her in, and get her post mortemed
That way you can make sure you can cover any husbandry issues, which might
be able to be solved for the benefit of the others, or be able to put it
away as being genetic.
--
--
regards
Jill Bowis
Domestic Poultry and Waterfowl Solutions
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine Nursery
Seasonal Farm Food
http://www.kintaline.co.uk
[/quote:ed23b92dba] |
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| Jill... |
| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:09 am |
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Guest
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What did the vet say?
keith kent wrote:
[quote:e32fb36969]They are on bare soil which was weed membrane and bark chips , it
does need rejuvenating what is best as a base in a run ?
Their weight is good and the one that died last week felt good as
at the time a thought she would be good for the plate .
I had 5 eggs this morning and have 6 hens , so she maybe the one not
laying i am not 100 % sure /
Thanks Keith
"Jill" <mail at (no spam) NOSPAMkintaline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7h54qhF2r5k4fU1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
"keith kent" <keith3 at (no spam) ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:vmcrm.138795$LX3.14219 at (no spam) newsfe17.ams2...
They have mainly layers pellets ,they are Lohmann Browns (one left
)but she is now hardly moving so think she will be dead by
tommorrow. They have a roofed run so is always dry ,which they do
often dust bathe.Whatever it is ,it has got a hold of this one very
quickly.I have also 2 bluebells approx 12 month old,2 light sussex
1 is 4 years old the other 3 years .And i have 1 x Leghorn 3 years
old .I have lost 1 Leghorn and 1 Lohmann and soon to be two .
Do chickens generally die in this way regardless of illness ?
There IS illness going on, its just inside, unseen, cancers, worms,
all sorts of things.
What is their weight like?
If the pen is bare soil, then many of the micro organisms can build
up, and these sorts of birds have less reslience against them.
They are prone to cancers.
Are they still laying? when do you think the last time they laid was?
I feel i should put her out of misery ,but don`t think i can do it
as i haven`t done it before .
I should let the vet do it but think it will be too late .
Take her in, and get her post mortemed
That way you can make sure you can cover any husbandry issues, which
might be able to be solved for the benefit of the others, or be able
to put it away as being genetic.
--
--
regards
Jill Bowis
Domestic Poultry and Waterfowl Solutions
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine Nursery
Seasonal Farm Food
http://www.kintaline.co.uk
[/quote:e32fb36969]
--
regards
Jill Bowis
Domestic Poultry and Waterfowl Solutions
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine Nursery
Seasonal Farm Food
http://www.kintaline.co.uk |
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| keith kent... |
| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:02 pm |
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Guest
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Hello Jill , I am booked to go to the vets at (no spam) 4.20 tommorrow .
I have cleared the pen to bare soil which was compacted until the girls got
in there and enjoyed scratching around as they do .
What is the best way to go regards a base in the pen ,what is best on top of
the soil.?
Thanks Keith
" Jill" <news at (no spam) NOSPAMkintaline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7h7bluF2q8rf5U1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
[quote:d9abef8404]What did the vet say?
keith kent wrote:
They are on bare soil which was weed membrane and bark chips , it
does need rejuvenating what is best as a base in a run ?
Their weight is good and the one that died last week felt good as
at the time a thought she would be good for the plate .
I had 5 eggs this morning and have 6 hens , so she maybe the one not
laying i am not 100 % sure /
Thanks Keith
"Jill" <mail at (no spam) NOSPAMkintaline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7h54qhF2r5k4fU1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
"keith kent" <keith3 at (no spam) ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:vmcrm.138795$LX3.14219 at (no spam) newsfe17.ams2...
They have mainly layers pellets ,they are Lohmann Browns (one left
)but she is now hardly moving so think she will be dead by
tommorrow. They have a roofed run so is always dry ,which they do
often dust bathe.Whatever it is ,it has got a hold of this one very
quickly.I have also 2 bluebells approx 12 month old,2 light sussex
1 is 4 years old the other 3 years .And i have 1 x Leghorn 3 years
old .I have lost 1 Leghorn and 1 Lohmann and soon to be two .
Do chickens generally die in this way regardless of illness ?
There IS illness going on, its just inside, unseen, cancers, worms,
all sorts of things.
What is their weight like?
If the pen is bare soil, then many of the micro organisms can build
up, and these sorts of birds have less reslience against them.
They are prone to cancers.
Are they still laying? when do you think the last time they laid was?
I feel i should put her out of misery ,but don`t think i can do it
as i haven`t done it before .
I should let the vet do it but think it will be too late .
Take her in, and get her post mortemed
That way you can make sure you can cover any husbandry issues, which
might be able to be solved for the benefit of the others, or be able
to put it away as being genetic.
--
--
regards
Jill Bowis
Domestic Poultry and Waterfowl Solutions
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine Nursery
Seasonal Farm Food
http://www.kintaline.co.uk
--
regards
Jill Bowis
Domestic Poultry and Waterfowl Solutions
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine Nursery
Seasonal Farm Food
http://www.kintaline.co.uk
[/quote:d9abef8404] |
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| keith kent... |
| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:06 pm |
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Guest
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I am going to keep adding organic material as a mulch then compost and start
again .
"keith kent" <keith3 at (no spam) ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:cpSrm.23557$Xh5.13064 at (no spam) newsfe01.ams2...
[quote:5747dfa1d1]Hello Jill , I am booked to go to the vets at (no spam) 4.20 tommorrow .
I have cleared the pen to bare soil which was compacted until the girls
got in there and enjoyed scratching around as they do .
What is the best way to go regards a base in the pen ,what is best on top
of the soil.?
Thanks Keith
" Jill" <news at (no spam) NOSPAMkintaline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7h7bluF2q8rf5U1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
What did the vet say?
keith kent wrote:
They are on bare soil which was weed membrane and bark chips , it
does need rejuvenating what is best as a base in a run ?
Their weight is good and the one that died last week felt good as
at the time a thought she would be good for the plate .
I had 5 eggs this morning and have 6 hens , so she maybe the one not
laying i am not 100 % sure /
Thanks Keith
"Jill" <mail at (no spam) NOSPAMkintaline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7h54qhF2r5k4fU1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
"keith kent" <keith3 at (no spam) ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:vmcrm.138795$LX3.14219 at (no spam) newsfe17.ams2...
They have mainly layers pellets ,they are Lohmann Browns (one left
)but she is now hardly moving so think she will be dead by
tommorrow. They have a roofed run so is always dry ,which they do
often dust bathe.Whatever it is ,it has got a hold of this one very
quickly.I have also 2 bluebells approx 12 month old,2 light sussex
1 is 4 years old the other 3 years .And i have 1 x Leghorn 3 years
old .I have lost 1 Leghorn and 1 Lohmann and soon to be two .
Do chickens generally die in this way regardless of illness ?
There IS illness going on, its just inside, unseen, cancers, worms,
all sorts of things.
What is their weight like?
If the pen is bare soil, then many of the micro organisms can build
up, and these sorts of birds have less reslience against them.
They are prone to cancers.
Are they still laying? when do you think the last time they laid was?
I feel i should put her out of misery ,but don`t think i can do it
as i haven`t done it before .
I should let the vet do it but think it will be too late .
Take her in, and get her post mortemed
That way you can make sure you can cover any husbandry issues, which
might be able to be solved for the benefit of the others, or be able
to put it away as being genetic.
--
--
regards
Jill Bowis
Domestic Poultry and Waterfowl Solutions
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine Nursery
Seasonal Farm Food
http://www.kintaline.co.uk
--
regards
Jill Bowis
Domestic Poultry and Waterfowl Solutions
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine Nursery
Seasonal Farm Food
http://www.kintaline.co.uk
[/quote:5747dfa1d1] |
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| Jill... |
| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:47 am |
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Guest
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keith kent wrote:
[quote:1b048346a1]Hello Jill , I am booked to go to the vets at (no spam) 4.20 tommorrow .
I have cleared the pen to bare soil which was compacted until the
girls got in there and enjoyed scratching around as they do .
What is the best way to go regards a base in the pen ,what is best on
top of the soil.?
[/quote:1b048346a1]
If there is a possibility that you have an infection in the soil, then a
friend found that the very best soil treatment was OOCIDE -- wonderful
stuff, really helped her out.
Weird - but wonderful. Follow the instructions !
Its hard to be able to advise really without seeing it but you want to keep
the chickens WELL away from bare soil, and well away from compacted soiled
material.
So a strong permeable membrane and about 4-6 INCHES of the coarsest bark
that you can find, which is then turned over regularly, and removed as its
broken down, to be replaced will work.
The coarseness means that the fouling from the birds will work through to
the bottom, and washed away by the rain.
The acidity helps to control some of the nasty bacteria.
Keeping the surface from compacting helps prevent build up of nasty
organisms.
Removing the substrate every 2-6 weeks depending on how it lasts and what
the weather is etc means you are taking away most of the problems.
I would probably want to say - move them to a completely fresh space and
start again. More space is also a good thing.
Pens are not an easy way to keep healthy birds.
Open clean grass or open forest floors where they are in low density is what
helps keep the nasty germs down.
You are finding out why domestic battery units became popular from the late
Victorian times, it is easier to keep birds healthier with NO contact with
the soils and other contaminants, than it is to have too high a density in a
domestic situation.
With the rise in domestic poultry keeping, in probably less than suitable
situations, you will have plenty of company around hte country.
Sadly many dealers, breeders, and housing retailers are either too ignorant
or too greedy to actually work through with potential customers as to
whether they actually have suitable conditions for birds.
Good luck, if you keep the substrate on the move, and constantly replaced,
you should be able to find a management system that works for your birds
health.
--
regards
Jill Bowis
Domestic Poultry and Waterfowl Solutions
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine Nursery
Seasonal Farm Food
http://www.kintaline.co.uk |
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| Back to top |
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| Jill... |
| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:48 am |
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Guest
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keith kent wrote:
[quote:8f796c8271]I am going to keep adding organic material as a mulch then compost
and start again .??
[/quote:8f796c8271]
Not sure what you mean?
You want a coarse free draining layer so that the foulings go away from the
birds.
Deep litter is a very skilled art, and only works in certain places.
Get it right, its wonderufl , get it wrong, its lethal.
--
regards
Jill Bowis
Domestic Poultry and Waterfowl Solutions
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine Nursery
Seasonal Farm Food
http://www.kintaline.co.uk |
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| Back to top |
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| keith kent... |
| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:14 pm |
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Guest
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" Jill" <news at (no spam) NOSPAMkintaline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7hbfuuF2slrrrU1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
[quote:35df26df29]keith kent wrote:
Hello Jill , I am booked to go to the vets at (no spam) 4.20 tommorrow .
I have cleared the pen to bare soil which was compacted until the
girls got in there and enjoyed scratching around as they do .
What is the best way to go regards a base in the pen ,what is best on
top of the soil.?
If there is a possibility that you have an infection in the soil, then a
friend found that the very best soil treatment was OOCIDE -- wonderful
stuff, really helped her out.
Weird - but wonderful. Follow the instructions !
Its hard to be able to advise really without seeing it but you want to
keep the chickens WELL away from bare soil, and well away from compacted
soiled material.
So a strong permeable membrane and about 4-6 INCHES of the coarsest bark
that you can find, which is then turned over regularly, and removed as its
broken down, to be replaced will work.
The coarseness means that the fouling from the birds will work through to
the bottom, and washed away by the rain.
The acidity helps to control some of the nasty bacteria.
Keeping the surface from compacting helps prevent build up of nasty
organisms.
Removing the substrate every 2-6 weeks depending on how it lasts and what
the weather is etc means you are taking away most of the problems.
I would probably want to say - move them to a completely fresh space and
start again. More space is also a good thing.
Pens are not an easy way to keep healthy birds.
Open clean grass or open forest floors where they are in low density is
what helps keep the nasty germs down.
You are finding out why domestic battery units became popular from the
late Victorian times, it is easier to keep birds healthier with NO contact
with the soils and other contaminants, than it is to have too high a
density in a domestic situation.
With the rise in domestic poultry keeping, in probably less than suitable
situations, you will have plenty of company around hte country.
Sadly many dealers, breeders, and housing retailers are either too
ignorant or too greedy to actually work through with potential customers
as to whether they actually have suitable conditions for birds.
Good luck, if you keep the substrate on the move, and constantly replaced,
you should be able to find a management system that works for your birds
health.
--
regards
Jill Bowis
Domestic Poultry and Waterfowl Solutions
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine Nursery
Seasonal Farm Food
http://www.kintaline.co.uk
Thanks for the sound advise , she is still alive bless her and has been to
the vets which didn`t really know what was wrong .He said it could be an
infection and sent me away £22.50 less and a packet of antibiotics 
My pen has a polycarbonate roof so remains dry at all times ,is this a[/quote:35df26df29]
problem as the poop cannot be washed away ?So would it help to hose down
inside the pen to wash away poop.
I have raked the soil and put in wood shavings,compost,weeds and fresh soil
to freshen up and to keep them going .
You say a strong permeable membrane to keep the birds away from the pen soil
, i thought i had this before until they soon ripped it up , could think
plastic sheeting be used with lots of holes through it be used or is this
not permeable enough ?
Thanks Keith |
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| Jill... |
| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:00 pm |
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Guest
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"keith kent" <keith3 at (no spam) ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Wycsm.118067$tD4.37181 at (no spam) newsfe07.ams2...
[quote:f5c8706f42]You say a strong permeable membrane to keep the birds away from the pen
soil , i thought i had this before until they soon ripped it up ,
[/quote:f5c8706f42]
If its deep enough then they cannot get to the membrane
COARSE bark is acidic and lets the muck pass through.
could think
[quote:f5c8706f42]plastic sheeting be used with lots of holes through it be used or is this
not permeable enough ?
[/quote:f5c8706f42]
not permeable enough.
--
--
regards
Jill Bowis
Domestic Poultry and Waterfowl Solutions
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine Nursery
Seasonal Farm Food
http://www.kintaline.co.uk |
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| Back to top |
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| keith kent... |
| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:10 pm |
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Guest
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"Jill" <mail at (no spam) NOSPAMkintaline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7hft4vF2tehbmU1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
[quote:5786a63caa]"keith kent" <keith3 at (no spam) ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Wycsm.118067$tD4.37181 at (no spam) newsfe07.ams2...
You say a strong permeable membrane to keep the birds away from the pen
soil , i thought i had this before until they soon ripped it up ,
If its deep enough then they cannot get to the membrane
COARSE bark is acidic and lets the muck pass through.
could think
plastic sheeting be used with lots of holes through it be used or is this
not permeable enough ?
not permeable enough.
--
--
regards
Jill Bowis
Domestic Poultry and Waterfowl Solutions
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine Nursery
Seasonal Farm Food
http://www.kintaline.co.uk
I will get some weed membrane and cover to 6 inch or so .[/quote:5786a63caa]
Update on my poorly Hen , she is still going.She is halfway through the dose
of antibiotics and is getting stronger as it is getting more difficult to
give her the pill !
So things are going good at the moment,fingers crossed .
Regards Keith
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| Christina Websell... |
| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:30 pm |
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Guest
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keith kent wrote:
[quote]They have mainly layers pellets ,they are Lohmann Browns (one left
)but she is now hardly moving so think she will be dead by tommorrow.
They have a roofed run so is always dry ,which they do often dust
bathe.Whatever it is ,it has got a hold of this one very quickly.I
have also 2 bluebells approx 12 month old,2 light sussex 1 is 4 years
old the other 3 years .And i have 1 x Leghorn 3 years old .I have
lost 1 Leghorn and 1 Lohmann and soon to be two .
Do chickens generally die in this way regardless of illness ?
I feel i should put her out of misery ,but don`t think i can do it as
i haven`t done it before .
I should let the vet do it but think it will be too late .
Regards Keith
It's the reason I stopped having hybrids and got pure breeds. Hybrids are[/quote]
bred to lay like crazy for two years and then die.
I got sick of it.
T |
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