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Science Forum Index » Chemistry Forum » agar replacement
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| Mark |
Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 3:44 pm |
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I am looking for a gel which can be stored at temperatures ranging
from freezing to 130 F. with a minimum shelf life of 6 months. We used
agar, which performed well, however, the problem is that the Agar
shrinks after just a few days. Does anyone have suggestions for a
substitute for the agar gel?
Thanks,
Mark |
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| Gregg |
Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:23 am |
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"Mark" <corexdg@aol.com> wrote in message
news:94da384d.0312261244.282c20ea@posting.google.com...
Quote: I am looking for a gel which can be stored at temperatures ranging
from freezing to 130 F. with a minimum shelf life of 6 months. We used
agar, which performed well, however, the problem is that the Agar
shrinks after just a few days. Does anyone have suggestions for a
substitute for the agar gel?
Thanks,
Mark
What are you doing with the Agar? - does it need to be translucent, non-
toxic, edible, high shear strength?????
Very few non-toxic gelling agents are as a good or inexpensive as agar for
forming stiff gels
If you can try adding some glycol, propylene glycol and/or glycerin to the
water before adding agar - this will help reduce shrinkage.
There is an excellent book - industrial gums, but my copy is at work. - When
I get back to work, I'll see what it says.
xanthan gum - locust bean mixtures 50/50 are also good gelling agents but
they don't have the pronounced melting point of agar.
Alginates can also be gelled with Calcium salts etc......
If your not worried about toxicity - a whole world of possibilities open
up....
Good luck
Gregg |
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| CorexDG |
Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2003 12:01 pm |
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Gregg,
It is used to demonstrate a device. The colored agar is put in a sealed clear
tube together with water. The device spins and breaks up the agar into smaller
and smaller pieces. The goal is to see the pieces spin around and get smaller
until they dissolve into the fluid. The agar must be a soft gel for the
demonstration to work. A 0.08% ratio of water/agar seems to work best. Can you
think of way to make the gel more brittle?
The translucency is not important. The gel should be non-toxic and inexpensive.
I tried propylene glycol just a few days ago. It prevents the solution from
freezing and appears to reduce the water loss. I am hoping that it will prevent
the agar from drying out and also will eliminate the need for the use of a
preservative to be added to the gel. Can you think of way to speed up the life
cycle testing. Perhaps placing the tubes in a warm over (115 F) for a few days?
I have played a little with xanthan gum/locust bean gels. They do not seem to
hold up well at temperatures above around 120F.
I have not tried aliginates gelled with calcium salts. I am not familiar with
these gels (My background is not in life sciences).
Thanks.
Mark |
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| Gregg |
Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2003 12:39 pm |
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Guest
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"CorexDG" <corexdg@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031227120132.11762.00001089@mb-m25.aol.com...
Quote: Gregg,
It is used to demonstrate a device. The colored agar is put in a sealed
clear
tube together with water. The device spins and breaks up the agar into
smaller
and smaller pieces. The goal is to see the pieces spin around and get
smaller
until they dissolve into the fluid. The agar must be a soft gel for the
demonstration to work. A 0.08% ratio of water/agar seems to work best. Can
you
think of way to make the gel more brittle?
The translucency is not important. The gel should be non-toxic and
inexpensive.
I tried propylene glycol just a few days ago. It prevents the solution
from
freezing and appears to reduce the water loss. I am hoping that it will
prevent
the agar from drying out and also will eliminate the need for the use of a
preservative to be added to the gel. Can you think of way to speed up the
life
cycle testing. Perhaps placing the tubes in a warm over (115 F) for a few
days?
I have played a little with xanthan gum/locust bean gels. They do not seem
to
hold up well at temperatures above around 120F.
I have not tried aliginates gelled with calcium salts. I am not familiar
with
these gels (My background is not in life sciences).
Thanks.
Mark
My background is ceramic engineering - I've had the opportunity to use a
variety of gums, starches, polymers and inorganic binders to do everything
from gelcasting to forming ceramic membrane filters. Some of the best
information I've been able to dig up is from the food processing people.
All the organics are eventually burned out when the part is fired
The Calcium/ Alginate gels are not water soluble, but they will breakup.
Sodium and Ammonium alginates are available in wide variety of grades. The
supplier Kelco comes to mind, but these companies tend to get sold and keep
changing names.
If this is for demonstration purposes, adding an inorganic filler should
help stabilize the gel (a nice white kaolin might work - you could use a
high solids content)
Maybe a puck of clay would work - stabilize the clay with the right binder/
dispersant chemistry so it won't dissolve readily and you could deign it to
be as brittle as you want.
Let me know if this is a viable solution - and I'll dig up some of my
literature when I get back to work
Feel free to contact me directly via e-mail if you want.
Gregg |
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