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| Nobody... |
 Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:06 am |
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Guest
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On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:53:20 +0000, Rich Grise wrote:
[quote:89e14842d8]One thing that does confuse me - which end of a battery is tha anode?
The end the positive charge comes out of?
[/quote:89e14842d8]
Positive charges don't come out of a battery ;)
Electrons leave via the anode (marked with a "-") and enter via the
cathode (marked with a "+"). |
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| Jasen Betts... |
| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:26 am |
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Guest
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On 2009-06-30, Rich Grise <richgrise at (no spam) example.net> wrote:
[quote:54baab1682]
One thing that does confuse me - which end of a battery is tha anode?
The end the positive charge comes out of?
[/quote:54baab1682]
No, the end it flows into (thus it's the opposite terminal whilst recharging) |
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| John Larkin... |
| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:31 am |
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Guest
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On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 11:06:30 +0100, Nobody <nobody at (no spam) nowhere.com> wrote:
[quote:43050fcda9]On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:53:20 +0000, Rich Grise wrote:
One thing that does confuse me - which end of a battery is tha anode?
The end the positive charge comes out of?
Positive charges don't come out of a battery 
[/quote:43050fcda9]
Not unless you connect the terminals with a liquid or a semiconductor
or a photoconductor or an ionized gas.
[quote:43050fcda9]
Electrons leave via the anode (marked with a "-") and enter via the
cathode (marked with a "+").
[/quote:43050fcda9]
A quick google search is about equally divided on the polarity of the
anode.
I like the voltage convention, where "anode" is always the more
positive terminal. But it doesn't much matter.
John |
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| John Fields... |
| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:51 pm |
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Guest
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On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 09:31:14 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin at (no spam) highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
[quote:2ed07ed0df]On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 11:06:30 +0100, Nobody <nobody at (no spam) nowhere.com> wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:53:20 +0000, Rich Grise wrote:
One thing that does confuse me - which end of a battery is tha anode?
The end the positive charge comes out of?
Positive charges don't come out of a battery ;)
Not unless you connect the terminals with a liquid or a semiconductor
or a photoconductor or an ionized gas.
[/quote:2ed07ed0df]
---
Those aren't positive charges, they're just places where electrons
ain't. The putatative "holes".
---
[quote:2ed07ed0df]Electrons leave via the anode (marked with a "-") and enter via the
cathode (marked with a "+").
A quick google search is about equally divided on the polarity of the
anode.
[/quote:2ed07ed0df]
---
Which means what?
---
[quote:2ed07ed0df]I like the voltage convention, where "anode" is always the more
positive terminal. But it doesn't much matter.
[/quote:2ed07ed0df]
---
Bottom line is it really does, but from your perspective you can't see
that.
JF |
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| John Larkin... |
| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:59 pm |
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Guest
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On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:51:00 -0500, John Fields
<jfields at (no spam) austininstruments.com> wrote:
[quote:8e00549905]On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 09:31:14 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin at (no spam) highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 11:06:30 +0100, Nobody <nobody at (no spam) nowhere.com> wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:53:20 +0000, Rich Grise wrote:
One thing that does confuse me - which end of a battery is tha anode?
The end the positive charge comes out of?
Positive charges don't come out of a battery ;)
Not unless you connect the terminals with a liquid or a semiconductor
or a photoconductor or an ionized gas.
---
Those aren't positive charges, they're just places where electrons
ain't. The putatative "holes".
[/quote:8e00549905]
A nucleus isn't a hole. It is full of real positive charges, known as
"protons."
Photoconductors do have holes; the protons don't move much. In ioninic
liquids and ionized gasses, the positive charges - protons - do in
fact move from the positive terminalo to the negative.
[quote:8e00549905]---
Electrons leave via the anode (marked with a "-") and enter via the
cathode (marked with a "+").
A quick google search is about equally divided on the polarity of the
anode.
---
Which means what?
---
I like the voltage convention, where "anode" is always the more
positive terminal. But it doesn't much matter.
---
Bottom line is it really does, but from your perspective you can't see
that.
[/quote:8e00549905]
It's sort of useless to have terms that change meaning many times a
second. Using the "current" standard, when a battery is delivering
current, its pos terminal is the cathode, but when it's being charged
it's the anode. That can change 120 times a second. Even more fun is a
PV diode, where the diode anode is the cathode when it's generating
power.
Which is why actual electrical engineers seldom use the words "anode"
and "cathode" unless they are referring to a diode or a vacuum tube,
and I've never heard an engineer switch the names of the diode ends
when it operated in zener or PV mode.
I always call the p-doped side of a diode "anode."
Do you call the banded end of a diode "anode" when it's zenering but
"cathode" when it's forward conducting?
John |
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| Greg Ewing... |
| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:08 am |
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John Fields wrote:
[quote:1d0b7b0429]Those aren't positive charges, they're just places where electrons
ain't. The putatative "holes".
[/quote:1d0b7b0429]
Although in semiconductors, apparently, due to some quantum
reason that I don't fully understand, the holes really do
behave as though they were positively charged particles.
The difference shows up in the Hall effect, where positive
charges moving one way are *not* equivalent to negative
charges moving the other way. The Hall voltage generated
by a p-type semiconductor is what you expect from moving
positive charges.
If anyone can provide an intuitive explanation of that,
I'd be most interested...
--
Greg |
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| John Fields... |
| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:00 pm |
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Guest
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On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:59:18 -0700, John Larkin
<jjSNIPlarkin at (no spam) highTHISlandtechnology.com> wrote:
[quote:ae8d2a6e71]On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:51:00 -0500, John Fields
jfields at (no spam) austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 09:31:14 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin at (no spam) highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 11:06:30 +0100, Nobody <nobody at (no spam) nowhere.com> wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:53:20 +0000, Rich Grise wrote:
One thing that does confuse me - which end of a battery is tha anode?
The end the positive charge comes out of?
Positive charges don't come out of a battery ;)
Not unless you connect the terminals with a liquid or a semiconductor
or a photoconductor or an ionized gas.
---
Those aren't positive charges, they're just places where electrons
ain't. The putatative "holes".
A nucleus isn't a hole.
[/quote:ae8d2a6e71]
---
Who said it was?
---
[quote:ae8d2a6e71]It is full of real positive charges, known as "protons."
[/quote:ae8d2a6e71]
---
Nope, it's full of protons _and_ neutrons, you patronizing ass.
---
[quote:ae8d2a6e71]Photoconductors do have holes; the protons don't move much.
[/quote:ae8d2a6e71]
---
The protons don't move at all unless the whole atom does.
The electrons do, though, and when an electron jumps from a neutral atom
to one which it finds more attractive, the space it leaves in its
previous orbital creates a hole and makes the atom it left an
electrically positive ion.
---
[quote:ae8d2a6e71]In ioninic liquids and ionized gasses, the positive charges - protons - do in
fact move from the positive terminalo to the negative.
[/quote:ae8d2a6e71]
---
"Ioninic"???
"Terminalo"???
Surely you had too much alcohol in your system when you decided to post
some more of your nonsense and didn't reealize that protons bound to the
nucleus don't have the mobility you claim they do, or you're just
stupid.
Which is it?
---
JF |
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| krw... |
| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:19 am |
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Guest
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On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 06:30:28 -0500, John Fields
<jfields at (no spam) austininstruments.com> wrote:
[quote:fbff1b11af]On Sat, 04 Jul 2009 17:16:16 -0700, John Larkin
jjSNIPlarkin at (no spam) highTHISlandtechnology.com> wrote:
On Sat, 04 Jul 2009 18:00:04 -0500, John Fields
jfields at (no spam) austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:59:18 -0700, John Larkin
jjSNIPlarkin at (no spam) highTHISlandtechnology.com> wrote:
On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:51:00 -0500, John Fields
jfields at (no spam) austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 09:31:14 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin at (no spam) highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 11:06:30 +0100, Nobody <nobody at (no spam) nowhere.com> wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:53:20 +0000, Rich Grise wrote:
One thing that does confuse me - which end of a battery is tha anode?
The end the positive charge comes out of?
Positive charges don't come out of a battery ;)
Not unless you connect the terminals with a liquid or a semiconductor
or a photoconductor or an ionized gas.
---
Those aren't positive charges, they're just places where electrons
ain't. The putatative "holes".
A nucleus isn't a hole.
---
Who said it was?
---
It is full of real positive charges, known as "protons."
---
Nope, it's full of protons _and_ neutrons, you patronizing ass.
Hydrogen? Hydrogen is a major charge carrier in lots of situations.
Situations that keep you alive.
---
Doing the "Larkin shuffle" again, huh?
Above, you stated:
"It is full of real positive charges, known as "protons.""
Note that you used the plural, "charges", which shows that you weren't
thinking about elemental hydrogen, "1H", the nucleus of which comprises
a single proton, yet that's what you try to change the subject with.
---
[/quote:fbff1b11af]
"Protons" is also plural, so the sentence is consistent.
<snip> |
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| John Larkin... |
| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:49 am |
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Guest
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On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 12:19:17 -0500, krw <krw at (no spam) att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
[quote:dda00a2e0b]On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 06:30:28 -0500, John Fields
jfields at (no spam) austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Sat, 04 Jul 2009 17:16:16 -0700, John Larkin
jjSNIPlarkin at (no spam) highTHISlandtechnology.com> wrote:
On Sat, 04 Jul 2009 18:00:04 -0500, John Fields
jfields at (no spam) austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:59:18 -0700, John Larkin
jjSNIPlarkin at (no spam) highTHISlandtechnology.com> wrote:
On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:51:00 -0500, John Fields
jfields at (no spam) austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 09:31:14 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin at (no spam) highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 11:06:30 +0100, Nobody <nobody at (no spam) nowhere.com> wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:53:20 +0000, Rich Grise wrote:
One thing that does confuse me - which end of a battery is tha anode?
The end the positive charge comes out of?
Positive charges don't come out of a battery ;)
Not unless you connect the terminals with a liquid or a semiconductor
or a photoconductor or an ionized gas.
---
Those aren't positive charges, they're just places where electrons
ain't. The putatative "holes".
A nucleus isn't a hole.
---
Who said it was?
---
It is full of real positive charges, known as "protons."
---
Nope, it's full of protons _and_ neutrons, you patronizing ass.
Hydrogen? Hydrogen is a major charge carrier in lots of situations.
Situations that keep you alive.
---
Doing the "Larkin shuffle" again, huh?
Above, you stated:
"It is full of real positive charges, known as "protons.""
Note that you used the plural, "charges", which shows that you weren't
thinking about elemental hydrogen, "1H", the nucleus of which comprises
a single proton, yet that's what you try to change the subject with.
---
"Protons" is also plural, so the sentence is consistent.
[/quote:dda00a2e0b]
And this ain't alt.english.usage, either. JF attacks the English when
he has no basis for evaluating substance. He's just in a bad mood.
John |
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| John Fields... |
| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:47 pm |
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Guest
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On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:49:44 -0700, John Larkin
<jjSNIPlarkin at (no spam) highTHISlandtechnology.com> wrote:
[quote:5cb7b56776]On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 12:19:17 -0500, krw <krw at (no spam) att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 06:30:28 -0500, John Fields
jfields at (no spam) austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Sat, 04 Jul 2009 17:16:16 -0700, John Larkin
jjSNIPlarkin at (no spam) highTHISlandtechnology.com> wrote:
On Sat, 04 Jul 2009 18:00:04 -0500, John Fields
jfields at (no spam) austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:59:18 -0700, John Larkin
jjSNIPlarkin at (no spam) highTHISlandtechnology.com> wrote:
On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:51:00 -0500, John Fields
jfields at (no spam) austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 09:31:14 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin at (no spam) highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 11:06:30 +0100, Nobody <nobody at (no spam) nowhere.com> wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:53:20 +0000, Rich Grise wrote:
One thing that does confuse me - which end of a battery is tha anode?
The end the positive charge comes out of?
Positive charges don't come out of a battery ;)
Not unless you connect the terminals with a liquid or a semiconductor
or a photoconductor or an ionized gas.
---
Those aren't positive charges, they're just places where electrons
ain't. The putatative "holes".
A nucleus isn't a hole.
---
Who said it was?
---
It is full of real positive charges, known as "protons."
---
Nope, it's full of protons _and_ neutrons, you patronizing ass.
Hydrogen? Hydrogen is a major charge carrier in lots of situations.
Situations that keep you alive.
---
Doing the "Larkin shuffle" again, huh?
Above, you stated:
"It is full of real positive charges, known as "protons.""
Note that you used the plural, "charges", which shows that you weren't
thinking about elemental hydrogen, "1H", the nucleus of which comprises
a single proton, yet that's what you try to change the subject with.
---
"Protons" is also plural, so the sentence is consistent.
[/quote:5cb7b56776]
---
Whatever you think that means.
Elemental hydrogen has but a single proton in its nucleus, so "protons"
is wrong.
[quote:5cb7b56776]
And this ain't alt.english.usage, either. JF attacks the English when
he has no basis for evaluating substance. He's just in a bad mood.
John
JF[/quote:5cb7b56776] |
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| krw... |
| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:06 pm |
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Guest
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On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 18:47:50 -0500, John Fields
<jfields at (no spam) austininstruments.com> wrote:
[quote:75635e247a]On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:49:44 -0700, John Larkin
jjSNIPlarkin at (no spam) highTHISlandtechnology.com> wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 12:19:17 -0500, krw <krw at (no spam) att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 06:30:28 -0500, John Fields
jfields at (no spam) austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Sat, 04 Jul 2009 17:16:16 -0700, John Larkin
jjSNIPlarkin at (no spam) highTHISlandtechnology.com> wrote:
On Sat, 04 Jul 2009 18:00:04 -0500, John Fields
jfields at (no spam) austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:59:18 -0700, John Larkin
jjSNIPlarkin at (no spam) highTHISlandtechnology.com> wrote:
On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:51:00 -0500, John Fields
jfields at (no spam) austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 09:31:14 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin at (no spam) highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 11:06:30 +0100, Nobody <nobody at (no spam) nowhere.com> wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:53:20 +0000, Rich Grise wrote:
One thing that does confuse me - which end of a battery is tha anode?
The end the positive charge comes out of?
Positive charges don't come out of a battery ;)
Not unless you connect the terminals with a liquid or a semiconductor
or a photoconductor or an ionized gas.
---
Those aren't positive charges, they're just places where electrons
ain't. The putatative "holes".
A nucleus isn't a hole.
---
Who said it was?
---
It is full of real positive charges, known as "protons."
---
Nope, it's full of protons _and_ neutrons, you patronizing ass.
Hydrogen? Hydrogen is a major charge carrier in lots of situations.
Situations that keep you alive.
---
Doing the "Larkin shuffle" again, huh?
Above, you stated:
"It is full of real positive charges, known as "protons.""
Note that you used the plural, "charges", which shows that you weren't
thinking about elemental hydrogen, "1H", the nucleus of which comprises
a single proton, yet that's what you try to change the subject with.
---
"Protons" is also plural, so the sentence is consistent.
---
Whatever you think that means.
[/quote:75635e247a]
It means that there is nothing wrong with the statement that you
objected to.
[quote:75635e247a]Elemental hydrogen has but a single proton in its nucleus, so "protons"
is wrong.
[/quote:75635e247a]
There *is* more than one hydrogen atom in the universe.
[quote:75635e247a]
And this ain't alt.english.usage, either. JF attacks the English when
he has no basis for evaluating substance. He's just in a bad mood.
John
JF[/quote:75635e247a] |
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| John Larkin... |
| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:11 pm |
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Guest
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On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 20:06:05 -0500, krw <krw at (no spam) att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
[quote:0a8316462c]Elemental hydrogen has but a single proton in its nucleus, so "protons"
is wrong.
There *is* more than one hydrogen atom in the universe.
[/quote:0a8316462c]
I actually own several of them.
John |
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| Michael A. Terrell... |
| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:18 am |
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Guest
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John Larkin wrote:
[quote:0c500166ef]
On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 20:06:05 -0500, krw <krw at (no spam) att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
Elemental hydrogen has but a single proton in its nucleus, so "protons"
is wrong.
There *is* more than one hydrogen atom in the universe.
I actually own several of them.
John
[/quote:0c500166ef]
Water you talking about, John? ;-)
--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense! |
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| krw... |
| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:15 pm |
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Guest
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On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 18:11:02 -0700, John Larkin
<jjSNIPlarkin at (no spam) highTHISlandtechnology.com> wrote:
[quote:031eee0da7]On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 20:06:05 -0500, krw <krw at (no spam) att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
Elemental hydrogen has but a single proton in its nucleus, so "protons"
is wrong.
There *is* more than one hydrogen atom in the universe.
I actually own several of them.
[/quote:031eee0da7]
Nah, you're just borrowing them. Have another beer... |
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| ehsjr... |
| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:43 pm |
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Guest
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Michael A. Terrell wrote:
[quote:4b60bc85ce]John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 20:06:05 -0500, krw <krw at (no spam) att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
Elemental hydrogen has but a single proton in its nucleus, so "protons"
is wrong.
There *is* more than one hydrogen atom in the universe.
I actually own several of them.
John
Water you talking about, John? ;-)
[/quote:4b60bc85ce]
Ouch. |
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