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Jud McCranie...
Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:27 pm
Guest
The Apollo 11 Slow-scan TV and the conversion is pretty well known.
What about the TV on the later Apollo landings? I know it was in
color and transmitted 60 frames per second, alternating through red,
blue, and green filters. Was a scan conversion made for broadcast on
Earth? If so, would it be possible to make better video than is
available on DVD if the pre-scan conversion data had been saved? And
was the pre-conversion data saved?
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ApolloTalks...
Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:27 pm
Guest
Episode 8 of Conversations with Apollo interviews Stan Lebar, who
worked on the development of the Apollo camera and he talks alot about
television from the moon. Check it out at http://apollotalks.com

On Jun 10, 12:27 pm, Jud McCranie <youknowwhat.mccra... at (no spam) comcast.net>
wrote:
Quote:
The Apollo 11 Slow-scan TV and the conversion is pretty well known.
What about the TV on the later Apollo landings? I know it was in
color and transmitted 60 frames per second, alternating through red,
blue, and green filters. Was a scan conversion made for broadcast on
Earth? If so, would it be possible to make better video than is
available on DVD if the pre-scan conversion data had been saved? And
was the pre-conversion data saved?
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Jud McCranie...
Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:33 pm
Guest
On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:54:42 -0700 (PDT), ApolloTalks
<apollotalks at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

Quote:
Episode 8 of Conversations with Apollo interviews Stan Lebar, who
worked on the development of the Apollo camera and he talks alot about
television from the moon. Check it out at http://apollotalks.com

That is very good and he talks about the conversion of the Apollo 11
TV, but it didn't answer my question about the conversion of the TV of
the later Apollo missions.
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OM...
Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:01 pm
Guest
On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:54:42 -0700 (PDT), ApolloTalks
<apollotalks at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

Quote:
Episode 8 of Conversations with Apollo interviews Stan Lebar, who
worked on the development of the Apollo camera and he talks alot about
television from the moon. Check it out at http://apollotalks.com

....So, did you ever get around to doing transcrips for those of us who
speed-read?

OM
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Jud McCranie...
Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:22 pm
Guest
On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:27:28 -0400, Jud McCranie
<youknowwhat.mccranie at (no spam) comcast.net> wrote:

Quote:
The Apollo 11 Slow-scan TV and the conversion is pretty well known.
What about the TV on the later Apollo landings?

This http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/ApolloTV-Acrobat7.pdf has a lot of
information.
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Gene DiGennaro...
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:24 am
Guest
On Jun 23, 1:33 am, J Waggoner <jwag... at (no spam) alltel.net> wrote:
Quote:
Regarding your specific question about the field sequential
recordings.    I received the following from a Nasa employee
while investigating other archived materials that shall remain
nameless.

First let me say that Slow-Scan TV was only used on Apollo 7, 8, 9 and
11. Apollo 10 and all subsequent missions through Skylab and
Apollo-Soyuz used the Westinghouse Field Sequential Color cameras that
operated at NTSC rates (525 lines, 30 frames per second). The Apollo
12 and 14 Lunar Module used a modified Westinghouse field sequential
color camera.
The quality of the television signal was degraded due to the need to
filter out the LM voice and telemetry subcarriers.
The Apollo 15, 16 and 17 lunar landing missions used the RCA GTCA
cameras that used the same field sequential color standard used by the
Westinghouse CSM color cameras. The quality was near broadcast
standards due to the use of a special device that removed the LM and
lunar rover subcarriers without degrading the television signal. The
television signals on the Apollo 16 and 17 lunar landing missions was
further improved by special processing by Image Transform. The NASA
Johnson Spaceflight Center still has a video archive that has digital
copies of the original field sequential color broadcasts by the
Apollo, Skylab, and Shuttle missions over the years. Mark Gray of
Spacecraft Films has produced an extensive DVD library of that
contains all of the Apollo field sequential color broadcasts.

I hope that answers your question.   The reasons the networks don't
use these?  Laziness.  Even Nasa tv doesn't show the cleaned up
recordings on Sundays or anniversaries which is unforgivable I think.

The following, Actual studio recorded  conversation at Nasa TV control
room,  "Hey Bob, yeah pull out the analog Beta Sp master from 1983 and
run it, yeah who cares...What? Run the new brilliant restored digital
transfer with eye popping sound and color of the Apollo 15 Eva?  No
thanks Bob. That's just to much work to impress my grand kids."

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 21:22:55 -0400, Jud McCranie



youknowwhat.mccra... at (no spam) comcast.net> wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:27:28 -0400, Jud McCranie
youknowwhat.mccra... at (no spam) comcast.net> wrote:

The Apollo 11 Slow-scan TV and the conversion is pretty well known.
What about the TV on the later Apollo landings?

Thishttp://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/ApolloTV-Acrobat7.pdfhas a lot of
information.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My father worked on the Westinghouse Lunar TV Camera. I don't think he
could answer Jud's question but I'll pass it by him. It's always been
a great source of pride for him. Dad retired from Northrop Grumman
Electronic Systems ( NorthGrum bought Westinghouse Defense Electronics
in the 90s) in April of 2005 after 42 years of service as an
engineer.
Gene DiGennaro
Baltimore, Md.
OM...
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:36 pm
Guest
On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:24:57 -0700 (PDT), Gene DiGennaro
<genedigennaro at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:

Quote:
My father worked on the Westinghouse Lunar TV Camera. I don't think he
could answer Jud's question but I'll pass it by him. It's always been
a great source of pride for him.

....The lunar aspect I can understand, but the color wheel technique?
Had the FCC given See-BS the nod instead of the NBC/RCA single-gun
system, we'd still be using monochrome monitors, and Hercules would
still be in business making video cards that would keep monitor
repairmen employed!

OM
--
]=====================================[
] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
]=====================================[
J Waggoner...
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:40 pm
Guest
Actually we'd probably be using the PAL European color system circa
1966 which is far more accurate in terms of flesh tone because it
looks real at 9000 Kelvin not just 6500K like on NTSC. Plus PAL tvs
were generally hue accurate when produced. Nobody has a tint knob
on a PAL tv. Only the new HDTV standard is better. Anyway that's
rather OT to the sequential recordings.

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:36:25 -0500, OM <om at (no spam) all_trolls_must_DIE.com>
wrote:

Quote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:24:57 -0700 (PDT), Gene DiGennaro
genedigennaro at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:

My father worked on the Westinghouse Lunar TV Camera. I don't think he
could answer Jud's question but I'll pass it by him. It's always been
a great source of pride for him.

...The lunar aspect I can understand, but the color wheel technique?
Had the FCC given See-BS the nod instead of the NBC/RCA single-gun
system, we'd still be using monochrome monitors, and Hercules would
still be in business making video cards that would keep monitor
repairmen employed!

OM
OM...
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:58 pm
Guest
On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:33:33 -0500, Pat Flannery <flanner at (no spam) daktel.com>
wrote:

Quote:
I don't think you'd need a low light level camera on the Moon; if
anything, the glare of the sun would blind most television
cameras...like happened on Apollo 12.

....What was needed was an autoswitching system that went from the
prone-to-death-if-you-blinked-at-it Vidicon imager and the BUFF tubes
Gene mentions. The former would work provided the camera wasn't
pointed at the Sun, while the latter would have been of more use in
shadow, where due to the Sun's brightness the contrast differential
was extreme to say the least.

OM
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] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
]=====================================[
Dwightster...
Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:04 am
Guest
The color-wheel cameras transmitted at 60 fields per second/30 frames
per second. These were filtered in the sequence Red, Blue, Green. The
signal was then sent to a custom built (by CBS Laboratories) video
disk recorder which created a frame buffer of three fields for the
later color fields. These were then matrixed together to form a full
color image. A synchroniser on the color wheel allowed ground
equipment to know which field color was being sent. A system of two 2"
videotape machines were used to synch the incoming doppler affected
signal to ground base time, allowing a fully NTSC compatible signal to
be created. This was done prior to the color converter.

Additionally, the raw data does still exist for most of the video
material, and has recently been digitally re-matrixed. The Apollo 16
material I have looks very good. Indeed, some of the ASTP material I
have is also pre-scan converted so it is definitely possible to
reconvert.

For the missions from Apollo 14 sun-proofing was integrated into the
camera. As an added feature a lens cap was included on the camera for
A14 (which can be seen coming into view a few times when the camera is
moved). This explains why on the J missions you can see the camera
point at or near the sun without being ruined.

The following cameras were used on flights upto ASTP
Apollo 1 (planned), 7 & 8 RCA B&W
Apollo 9 & 11 Lunar EVA Westinghouse B&W lunar camera
Apollo 10, 11 CSM, 12, 13, 14, 15 CSM, 16 CSM, 17 CSM, Skylab and ASTP
(two cameras in CSM) Westinghouse color wheel
Apollo 15, 16 & 17 Lunar EVA RCA GCTA color wheel camera

Hope that helps.
Dwight
OM...
Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:30 pm
Guest
On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:04:48 -0700 (PDT), Dwightster
<Dstevenb at (no spam) aol.com> wrote:

Quote:
Indeed, some of the ASTP material I
have is also pre-scan converted so it is definitely possible to
reconvert.

....*I* *WANT* *COPIES*

OM
--
]=====================================[
] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
]=====================================[
 
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