On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 19:12:28 -0400, "Spaceman"
spaceman at (no spam) yourclockmalfunctioned.duh> wrote:

The heat is an effect, and also a cause of a drain of energy.

No, the heat does not cause a drain.

Do you think a wire that gets hot will not be less efficient
than a wire that does not get hot?

That largely depends on your definition of "efficient." It also
depends on what you consider to be hot.

I said the heat that is now being generated by
the resistance and to run the clock is an extra drain
than the clock alone would have.

Again my apologies. I thought otherwise. You are incorrect in
calling it a "drain," however.

It would create a higher drain, absolutely. I don't know why one
would add a heating element to a clock, but if battery powered it
would absolutely increase the drain on the battery.

Not at all. You would quickly notice that heat isn't free at all if
you tried to heat your house with clocks, even if you designed heating
elements into them.

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 19:06:51 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghekhuis at (no spam) earthlink.net> wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 18:47:18 -0400, "Spaceman"
spaceman at (no spam) yourclockmalfunctioned.duh> wrote:


The current decreases and the resistance increases
and the voltage drops.

Correct.

but then you have one silly thing that normally does not occur
that you seem to be leaving out when a resistance occurs.
and that is of course the heating element that is a "drain"

Not at all. Almost all resistance dissipates heat, to some extent.
The heat is an effect, not a cause.

Sorry. That's bullshit. High resistance means almost zero current,
hence almost zero power, zero heat.

For a fixed resistance, power is
E^2/R. As R rises, power drops.

that is higher than a normal clock drain to begin with

Absolutely not. The clock drain does not change at all.
Again, bullshit.
An open circuit will mean little voltage to the clock circuit and almost no
power.

Or do you think that resistance does not produce heat at all
and cause more current drain?

Resistance almost always produces heat, which can be quite undesired
in many cases. It does not cause current drain, however.

bullshit. pure and simple bullshit.

Why don't you make an attempt to educate yourself before you spout
more nonsense.

Try googling for "ohm's law". This is *really* basic stuff.

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 18:47:02 -0500, AZ Nomad
aznomad.3 at (no spam) PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 19:06:51 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghekhuis at (no spam) earthlink.net> wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 18:47:18 -0400, "Spaceman"
spaceman at (no spam) yourclockmalfunctioned.duh> wrote:


The current decreases and the resistance increases
and the voltage drops.

Correct.

but then you have one silly thing that normally does not occur
that you seem to be leaving out when a resistance occurs.
and that is of course the heating element that is a "drain"

Not at all. Almost all resistance dissipates heat, to some extent.
The heat is an effect, not a cause.

Sorry. That's bullshit. High resistance means almost zero current,
hence almost zero power, zero heat.

No it isn't. By the way, you should have said almost zero heat,
rather than zero heat. All circuits have some resistance, all
circuits produce heat, to some extent. Even your high resistance
model produces *some* heat.

The clock "drain," or "load," does not change at all. When you open
a circuit containing a clock, the switch is in the wiring (power
supply), not the clock itself.
so fucking what? It isn't a signifigant load. A battery sitting unconnected

Galen Hekhuis wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 19:12:28 -0400, "Spaceman"
spaceman at (no spam) yourclockmalfunctioned.duh> wrote:

The heat is an effect, and also a cause of a drain of energy.

No, the heat does not cause a drain.

I would love to know how you could accomplish that.
I would be making heaters that would not need energy.

Do you think a wire that gets hot will not be less efficient
than a wire that does not get hot?

That largely depends on your definition of "efficient." It also
depends on what you consider to be hot.

No,
It depends on how much heat is used "for" the system.
If the system does not use the heat itself for work, it is
a complete loss no matter what you might think it will be.
As in the case of a clock that is not designed to work
off the heat any wires may create.

I said the heat that is now being generated by
the resistance and to run the clock is an extra drain
than the clock alone would have.

Again my apologies. I thought otherwise. You are incorrect in
calling it a "drain," however.

No, it is an energy drain. the energy is not being used
for what it is supposed to be used for.
It is instead being used to heat the resistance spot.
That is a drain of the energy.

It would create a higher drain, absolutely. I don't know why one
would add a heating element to a clock, but if battery powered it
would absolutely increase the drain on the battery.

That is what I have said.
I said the loose connection (the resistance factor) would cause
a drain that would be higher than just the clock alone would be.

Not at all. You would quickly notice that heat isn't free at all if
you tried to heat your house with clocks, even if you designed heating
elements into them.

I am the one saying such.
I am the one saying the heat will drain more energy than the clock
alone would.
C,mon man!
What I am saying matches all known physics of electricity.
The loose connection causes a "resistance" and that resistance
is in turn a "heating element" and such will drain more power
than a clock circuit that has no extra resistance.

"Spaceman" <spaceman at (no spam) yourclockmalfunctioned.duh> wrote in message
news:yYudnT8mNvmToR_VnZ2dnUVZ_gmdnZ2d at (no spam) comcast.com...
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick wrote:

You are one arrogant bastard really.
LOL

Bullseye

Once Doug tried to tell me I was wrong about the "Dump Valve" on a
Spread Axle Trailer until he spoke to someone else that knows more
than he knows.

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 20:02:02 -0400, "Spaceman"
spaceman at (no spam) yourclockmalfunctioned.duh> wrote:

Galen Hekhuis wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 19:12:28 -0400, "Spaceman"
spaceman at (no spam) yourclockmalfunctioned.duh> wrote:

The heat is an effect, and also a cause of a drain of energy.

No, the heat does not cause a drain.

I would love to know how you could accomplish that.
I would be making heaters that would not need energy.
:)

How?

No, it is an energy drain. the energy is not being used
for what it is supposed to be used for.
It is instead being used to heat the resistance spot.
That is a drain of the energy.

It is an undesired product. It is a waste. It is not a drain.

The loose connection is a higher resistance, which will decrease the
current in the circuit. A loose connection on the battery will not
increase the drain on the battery at all, but it may impede the
charging.

Think of the loose connection as a resistor, a current limiting
resistor.

You said that "all most all resistance
dispates heat". That is basically false for high resistance. Generating a
ten thousanth of a degree F really doesn't count.

The clock "drain," or "load," does not change at all. When you open
a circuit containing a clock, the switch is in the wiring (power
supply), not the clock itself.
so fucking what? It isn't a signifigant load. A battery sitting unconnected
might take six weeks to self-discharge.

Connect your horrible clock circuit,
through grubbly oxidized battery cables, and it might take a microsecond
longer to reach the same voltage level you consider to be a discharged
battery.

It isn't worth considering.

Meanshile you've got a shorted
alternator capable of draging down the whole mess in a five hours.

Again, why don't you educate your selfabout the relationship between
current, voltage, and resistance between you spout more nonsense?

The Honorable Dr. Rocky Roads Presiding Judge wrote:
"Spaceman" <spaceman at (no spam) yourclockmalfunctioned.duh> wrote in message
news:yYudnT8mNvmToR_VnZ2dnUVZ_gmdnZ2d at (no spam) comcast.com...
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick wrote:

You are one arrogant bastard really.
LOL

Bullseye

Once Doug tried to tell me I was wrong about the "Dump Valve" on a
Spread Axle Trailer until he spoke to someone else that knows more
than he knows.

Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick wrote:

You are one arrogant bastard really.
LOL

Galen Hekhuis wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 20:02:02 -0400, "Spaceman"
spaceman at (no spam) yourclockmalfunctioned.duh> wrote:

Galen Hekhuis wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 19:12:28 -0400, "Spaceman"
spaceman at (no spam) yourclockmalfunctioned.duh> wrote:

The heat is an effect, and also a cause of a drain of energy.

No, the heat does not cause a drain.

I would love to know how you could accomplish that.
I would be making heaters that would not need energy.
:)

How?

You are saying resistance will not cause extra energy needed
to overcome the resistance.

That would mean I could make clocks that have a lot
of resistance and heat the house while the clock keeps
the time and still use no extra energy.

No, it is an energy drain. the energy is not being used
for what it is supposed to be used for.
It is instead being used to heat the resistance spot.
That is a drain of the energy.

It is an undesired product. It is a waste. It is not a drain.

It is a drain, if it is a waste at all.

The loose connection is a higher resistance, which will decrease the
current in the circuit. A loose connection on the battery will not
increase the drain on the battery at all, but it may impede the
charging.

Think of the loose connection as a resistor, a current limiting
resistor.

It is not a current limiting resistor.

Current limiting resistors are not designed by simply
making "bad connections"
If they were they would be made by the user instead of purchased.
It is a resistance that is creatign heat and losing energy.

Sometimes such is good,(heat sinks) and maybe even designed
into a system, but in a system where you don't want
such it is a drain no matter what you may think.

Is there an electrical outlet anywhere near the car?

It can when the power is trying to be used by something as simple
as the clock that is "always" on in pretty much every car made since
clocks were placed in cars..
I really think you should check such out.
The battery will drain faster when the circuit is not complete.
and it is a faster "drain".

I can't remember the last analog clock I saw in a car.

"While high resistence in a connection can increased energy
consumption, that's not a "drain"."

I am sorry for forgetting the extra word in front of the word drain.
Shesh.
and I am sorry that a simple tightening of terminals can stop
such more than a few times in my experience with cars.

So just for thought, what do you do for a job and what experience
do you have in fixing cars?

See your other post.

I didn't.

I said -you- were -trying- to.

A good example of a parasitic drain is a trunk or glovebox light that
doesn't shut off when the door-lid is closed.

Shorted voltage regulators in alternators, too.

The hardest one to find I ever saw was a used staple in the right read
door cigarette lighter of a Cadillac.

Aftermarket stereos incorrectly wired in is another regular criminal.