Why is the water on mars prevented from evaporation
by such a thin layer of dirt?

Is not that dirt porous? Or is it somehow clumping
together so much as to be vapour tight? Or is the
water vapour making is freeze together?

Why is the water on mars prevented from evaporation by such a thin
layer of dirt? Is not that dirt porous? Or is it somehow clumping
together so much as to be vapour tight?
Or is the water vapour making is freeze together?

On Jun 24, 2:49 pm, Agent Smith <agent-sm... at (no spam) two-blocks-on-your-
left.com> wrote:
Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote
innews:g3gh17$kum$1 at (no spam) news.datemas.de:

Why is thewateronmarsprevented from evaporation by such a thin
layer of dirt? Is not that dirt porous? Or is it somehow clumping
together so much as to be vapour tight?
Or is thewatervapour making is freeze together?

Because even that thin layer of "dirt" is enough to keep the ice in
perpetual shade.

Shaded h2o? (I don't think so)

How many PPB of h2o are we talking about?

BradGuth <bradg... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote innews:9e66d7bf-f4b0-4c52-83e7-742ded4198a2 at (no spam) m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:

On Jul 9, 4:35 pm, Agent Smith <agent-sm... at (no spam) two-blocks-on-your-
left.com> wrote:
BradGuth <bradg... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote
innews:89e23bb1-920b-4ebb-a85c-a1831375a942

at (no spam) z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.c



om:

On Jun 24, 2:49 pm, Agent Smith <agent-sm... at (no spam) two-blocks-on-your-
left.com> wrote:
Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote
innews:g3gh17$kum$1 at (no spam) news.datemas.de:

Why is thewateronmarsprevented from evaporation by such a thin
layer of dirt? Is not that dirt porous? Or is it somehow
clumping together so much as to be vapour tight?
Or is thewatervapour making is freeze together?

Because even that thin layer of "dirt" is enough to keep the ice
in perpetual shade.

Shaded h2o? (I don't think so)

How many PPB of h2o are we talking about?

Do you mean to say that you believe that underground water is not in
the shade?

The first few meters are essentially at vacuum (same as Mars
atmosphere). Below 100 meters should be well enough radiation
shielded and having a little pressure to work with, and it should be a
few degrees warmer than dry-ice.

Did I just understand you correctly to say that you think Martian
sunlight penetrates a hundred meters into the ground?

BradGuth <bradg... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote innews:84315f2c-ba7c-4a2b-b965-7f1c25cfa178 at (no spam) k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com:

On Jun 27, 6:13 am, Agent Smith <agent-sm... at (no spam) two-blocks-on-your-
left.com> wrote:
BradGuth <bradg... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote
innews:89e23bb1-920b-4ebb-a85c-a1831375a942

at (no spam) z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.c



om:

On Jun 24, 2:49 pm, Agent Smith <agent-sm... at (no spam) two-blocks-on-your-
left.com> wrote:
Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote
innews:g3gh17$kum$1 at (no spam) news.datemas.de:

Why is thewateronmarsprevented from evaporation by such a thin
layer of dirt? Is not that dirt porous? Or is it somehow
clumping together so much as to be vapour tight?
Or is thewatervapour making is freeze together?

Because even that thin layer of "dirt" is enough to keep the ice
in perpetual shade.

Shaded h2o? (I don't think so)

Does water have a property that doesn't allow it to exist in the
shade? ?;(~

Water doesn't do well when exposed to such vacuum, not to mention
solar and cosmic radiation isn't exactly an h2o keeper.

Thus far, it seems their fancy and spendy mass spectrometer hasn't
found 1 ppb of h2o to work with. I'm not surprised. They'll need to
dig much deeper, like 100+ meters starting at the bottom of an
extremely deep crater.

Your numbers are off. The polar orbiter imaged water ice with a radar
that only looks a few meters beneath the surface. Your general idea may
be right, that the top layer may be dry ice, and we may have to get
through that to get to the water ice.

I'm more worried about a false negative. The water may be stable in
glacier form, but I think the crystals they scratch off may sublimate
immediately, before they can get past the blocker and into the measuring
device.

Our priceless lander may report the absence of ice because the
experiment was designed wrong. They may even have to send another
lander, just to find out what is the physics of why the "dirt" won't
fall through the screen. They may have to design an extraction
penetrator that will melt it's way into the glacier and suck up liquid
or vapor for analysis, rather than trying to scrape off crystals with a
tool badly designed for that purpose. Little shovels aren't intended to
scrape ice off glaciers, because that's what grinders are for.

They may have not thought the problem through suffucuently, and Mars may
have metaphorically destroyed another mission. With water soluble salts
sitting right there, and a positive radar spectrum, there's every reason
to believe water is sitting right there too. There's every clue
pointing to water, but not the water itself, which suggests a clumsy
mistake. ;(

And then there's the question of time. Just because water has
occasionally existed on Mars for infrequent periods doesn't mean that
life had enough time to even begin to evolve. I'm still in the camp of
people who think that water existed but not life.

Same for Enceladus, because it's so cold. The chemistry of life needs
heat and light to evolve, and there's certainly not enough light out
there, and possibly not enough heat, either. The only way we're going
to find another habitable planet is around another star like ours,
goverened by Bode's Law and an Earth, a Moon and a Jupiter, all in the
same place.

That's a pretty tall order, and the closest one may be a **long** way
from here, possibly even far enough away that even TPF can't see it.
That depends on whether it's design parameters will allow it to see the
entire visible disk of the galaxy, details of which I'm not informed.

Agent Smith wrote:
(snip)
Same for Enceladus, because it's so cold. The chemistry of life
needs heat and light to evolve, and there's certainly not enough
light out there, and possibly not enough heat, either.
(snip)

You seem to miss that most of the life on Earth (if you go
by cell count or cell mass) is never exposed to a bit of
light. It lives permanently in rock or deep water.

How are conditions 10 miles deep in the crust of Mars so
very different than the conditions 10 miles deep in the
crust of Earth? Most of Earth life would probably not
notice the difference.

John Popelish <jpopelish at (no spam) rica.net> wrote:

You seem to miss that most of the life on Earth (if you go
by cell count or cell mass) is never exposed to a bit of
light. It lives permanently in rock or deep water.

How are conditions 10 miles deep in the crust of Mars so
very different than the conditions 10 miles deep in the
crust of Earth? Most of Earth life would probably not
notice the difference.

Life on earth evolved in the comfortable places, and then adapted to the
hostile places. There are no comfortable places on Mars and Enceladus.

You're delusional, and you'll go to your grave claiming that there is
life on Mars, despite repeated missions that find none.

You belong in a
psychiatric hospital or a prison, for defrauding the government out of
taxpayer money and then wasting it on missions that were doomed to
failure before your slutty great grandmother was even born.

On a sunny day (Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:18:08 GMT) it happened "Mr.
Furious" <Mr at (no spam) Furious.com> wrote in
Xns9ADD4A49DAB9Flkajehoriuasldfjknak at (no spam) 207.115.33.102>:

BradGuth <bradguth at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in
news:049b7cec-45ff-4c54-8446-5c18afa1dc10 at (no spam) 2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com:

On Jun 20, 8:06 am, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
Why is the water on mars prevented from evaporation by such a thin
layer of dirt?

It isn't prevented, because there is not water or its vapor left to
evaporate.

Is not that dirt porous? Or is it somehow clumping together so much
as to be vapour tight?
Or is the water vapour making is freeze together?

Mars soil isn't vapor tight, and of other than dry-ice being
somewhat sticky, water isn't causing that soil to clump.

It's static electricity.

One thing against that argument is that static electricity in dirt
with minerals and water is shorted.

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 18 Jul 2008 00:32:14 GMT) it happened "Mr.
Furious" <Mr at (no spam) Furious.com> wrote in
Xns9ADED0ED59427lkajehoriuasldfjknak at (no spam) 207.115.33.102>:

Mars soil isn't vapor tight, and of other than dry-ice being
somewhat sticky, water isn't causing that soil to clump.
It's static electricity.
One thing against that argument is that static electricity in dirt
with minerals and water is shorted.
The water is frozen; the salts aren't in the ice, and even if they
were, they wouldn't have the mobility to conduct electricity.

Look at it dynamic, the ice evaporates through the mineral laden
dirt, causing a conductive path in that.
I am not saying that is so, but it could be.

I would think that it could even (the evaporation) create some sort
of cement or concrete.... that then closes off what is beneath it,
and sticks together. Possible?

It doesn't evaporate, it sublimates.

Golden California Girls <gldncagrls at (no spam) aol.com.mil> wrote in
news:uU2gk.9$GI.7 at (no spam) trnddc05:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 18 Jul 2008 00:32:14 GMT) it happened "Mr.
Furious" <Mr at (no spam) Furious.com> wrote in
Xns9ADED0ED59427lkajehoriuasldfjknak at (no spam) 207.115.33.102>:

Mars soil isn't vapor tight, and of other than dry-ice being
somewhat sticky, water isn't causing that soil to clump.
It's static electricity.
One thing against that argument is that static electricity in dirt
with minerals and water is shorted.
The water is frozen; the salts aren't in the ice, and even if they
were, they wouldn't have the mobility to conduct electricity.
Look at it dynamic, the ice evaporates through the mineral laden
dirt, causing a conductive path in that.
I am not saying that is so, but it could be.

I would think that it could even (the evaporation) create some sort
of cement or concrete.... that then closes off what is beneath it,
and sticks together. Possible?
It doesn't evaporate, it sublimates.

Don't waste your energy. If he's dumb enough to think that salts
dissolve in water vapor, he's never going to understand anything you
say.