Main Page | Report this Page
 
   
Science Forum Index  »  Physics - Research Forum  »  Quantization of gravitational momenta...
Page 1 of 1    
Author Message
Henrique de Andrade Gomes...
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:33 am
Guest
When we perform a 3+1 decomposition of GR (let us assume the sppatial
part is compact without boundary to make it simpler), we obtain
something which is the so called gravitational momenta. This momentum
has two components, one is the bare metric velocity [/tex]\dot g[tex]
and the other involves the so called shift vector, and is basically
the Lie derivative of the metric in the direction of this shift
vector. So we have [\tex]\dot g-L_\xi g[tex]. Now, it looks a lot like
the electromagnetic momenta, where we have an extra term to the
original momenta, which is the electromagnetic potential. But
apparently, unlike in electromagnetism (if I am not mistaken), under
the quantization procedure for the canonical coordinates, one simply
quantizes the whole thing [\tex]\dot g-L_\xi g[tex] as the functional
derivative along the metric coordinate [\tex]g_{ij}[tex]. So, does one
set the shift to zero before quantizing or is this the way it should
be done even with the shift? If so, why is it different from
electromagnetism?

Thanks in advance,
Henrique
...
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:09 pm
Guest
On Jun 17, 12:33 pm, Henrique de Andrade Gomes <gomes... at (no spam) gmail.com>
wrote:
Quote:
When we perform a 3+1 decomposition of GR (let us assume the sppatial
part is compact without boundary to make it simpler), we obtain
something which is the so called gravitational momenta. This momentum
has two components, one is the bare metric velocity [/tex]\dot g[tex]
and the other involves the so called shift vector, and is basically
the Lie derivative of the metric in the direction of this shift
vector. So we have [\tex]\dot g-L_\xi g[tex]. Now, it looks a lot like
the electromagnetic momenta, where we have an extra term to the
original momenta, which is the electromagnetic potential. But
apparently, unlike in electromagnetism (if I am not mistaken), under
the  quantization procedure for the  canonical coordinates, one simply
quantizes the whole thing  [\tex]\dot g-L_\xi g[tex] as the functional
derivative along the metric coordinate [\tex]g_{ij}[tex]. So, does one
set the shift to zero before quantizing or is this the way it should
be done even with the shift? If so, why is it different from
electromagnetism?


The quantization strategy is actually the same in both
cases. One way to think about this is that (for typical fields)
the canonical momenta are always defined as the
Lie derivative of the field along the *unit normal* to
the hypersurfaces of your spacetime foliation.
So, for the EM field, or for a scalar field, or whatever,
the shift vector is actually there, too (unless you've
set it to zero with a special choice of foliation).

The shift vector term in the gravitational momentum
is also very analogous to the gradient of the scalar
potential term in the EM momentum if you make
the analogy between spatial diffeomorphisms in GR
and gauge transformations in EM. But that's another
story...

charlie torre
Henrique de Andrade Gomes...
Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:48 am
Guest
On Jun 17, 11:09 pm, to... at (no spam) cc.usu.edu wrote:
Quote:

The quantization strategy is actually the same in both
cases. One way to think about this is that (for typical fields)
the canonical momenta are always defined as the
Lie derivative of the field along the *unit normal* to
the hypersurfaces of your spacetime foliation.
So, for the EM field, or for a scalar field, or whatever,
the shift vector is actually there, too (unless you've
set it to zero with a special choice of foliation).

I didn't mean to refer to EM fields in 3+1 curved space, I meant pure
gravity. And my question is also not about where the shift comes from,
which I understand.

Quote:
The shift vector term in the gravitational momentum
is also very analogous to the gradient of the scalar
potential term in the EM momentum if you make
the analogy between spatial diffeomorphisms in GR
and gauge transformations in EM. But that's another
story...

charlie torre

This is more towards what I meant. If the electromagnetic potential
has the form of a gradient, it can be altogether ignored (in simply
connected space). Now, supposing one could view the shift term as a
connection as well, would that mean that we could not have curvature
of that connection? For classical space-time this would always be the
case, as curvature needs at least two independent directions to be non
null (in this case, directions are global metric velocities) .
Henrique de Andrade Gomes...
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:59 pm
Guest
On Jun 17, 11:09 pm, to... at (no spam) cc.usu.edu wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 17, 12:33 pm, Henrique de Andrade Gomes <gomes... at (no spam) gmail.com
wrote:



When we perform a 3+1 decomposition of GR (let us assume the sppatial
part is compact without boundary to make it simpler), we obtain
something which is the so called gravitational momenta. This momentum
has two components, one is the bare metric velocity [/tex]\dot g[tex]
and the other involves the so called shift vector, and is basically
the Lie derivative of the metric in the direction of this shift
vector. So we have [\tex]\dot g-L_\xi g[tex]. Now, it looks a lot like
the electromagnetic momenta, where we have an extra term to the
original momenta, which is the electromagnetic potential. But
apparently, unlike in electromagnetism (if I am not mistaken), under
the quantization procedure for the canonical coordinates, one simply
quantizes the whole thing [\tex]\dot g-L_\xi g[tex] as the functional
derivative along the metric coordinate [\tex]g_{ij}[tex]. So, does one
set the shift to zero before quantizing or is this the way it should
be done even with the shift? If so, why is it different from
electromagnetism?

The quantization strategy is actually the same in both
cases. One way to think about this is that (for typical fields)
the canonical momenta are always defined as the
Lie derivative of the field along the *unit normal* to
the hypersurfaces of your spacetime foliation.
So, for the EM field, or for a scalar field, or whatever,
the shift vector is actually there, too (unless you've
set it to zero with a special choice of foliation).

I didn't mean the quantization of electromagnetism in Hamiltonian GR,
but the analogy between pure gravity in 3+1 canonical quantization and
the quantization of an electromagnetic dynamical system.

Quote:
The shift vector term in the gravitational momentum
is also very analogous to the gradient of the scalar
potential term in the EM momentum if you make
the analogy between spatial diffeomorphisms in GR
and gauge transformations in EM. But that's another
story...

Yes, I think this comment is more in line with what I was thinking. In
electromagnetism, if you have a gradient potential, it does not affect
at all observability (suppposing we have a simply connected space). Is
it the same with the gravitational momenta? How do we know? We would
only observe such a deviation quantum mechanically as well...
 
Page 1 of 1       All times are GMT - 5 Hours
The time now is Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:03 am