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Science Forum Index » Language Translation Forum » Accents sur les majuscules...
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| RobHK... |
Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 9:46 am |
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Excusez ma paresse si j'ecris en anglais. De toute facon je n'arrive pas
a faire les accents...
I'd be interested in the views of native French speakers (and others) on
the use of accents on capital letters. I was brought up that you simply
didn't do it. But a translator doing a job for me has accented the
initial letter of Etats-Unis. Her argument, which makes a lot of sense,
is that if you don't you have problems with the spellchecker, and I can
see that you would also run into issues with automatic change of case. I
googled Etats-Unis, and both accented and unaccented forms are to be
found.
What are any related issues? Is it possible to set MS Word (for example)
to display E'tats-Unis (E' representing E acute) as Etats-Unis while
recognising the accented character in spell-checks and automatic changes
of case? |
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| mb... |
Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 10:08 am |
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On May 31, 12:36 pm, "Jean Munier"
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Quote: (Cliquez sur « Accentuation des majuscules »)
Si quelqu'un vous affirme le contraire, ce sera lui (ou
elle) contre l'Académie française et devinez quoi ? Il ou
elle prétendra en savoir plus que cette docte Académie
Refuser de changer des habitudes du temps de l'école primaire et de la
machine à écrire n'est pas forcément à interpréter comme «en savoir
plus». |
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| Tony Vella... |
Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 10:23 am |
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"RobHK" <invalid at (no spam) hjtredfn.com> wrote in message
news:00056b28$0$2964$c3e8da3 at (no spam) news.astraweb.com...
Quote: Excusez ma paresse si j'ecris en anglais. De toute facon je n'arrive pas
a faire les accents...
I'd be interested in the views of native French speakers (and others) on
the use of accents on capital letters. I was brought up that you simply
didn't do it. But a translator doing a job for me has accented the
initial letter of Etats-Unis. Her argument, which makes a lot of sense,
is that if you don't you have problems with the spellchecker, and I can
see that you would also run into issues with automatic change of case. I
googled Etats-Unis, and both accented and unaccented forms are to be
found.
What are any related issues? Is it possible to set MS Word (for example)
to display E'tats-Unis (E' representing E acute) as Etats-Unis while
recognising the accented character in spell-checks and automatic changes
of case?
Hello Rob.
All the years I worked in the Canadian federal government management
insisted on all accents being shown in both upper and lower case. In those
days such rules and regulations were established for federal government
departments through the Department of Public Works' Federal Identity
Program, however, all the provincial governments and the private sector
(Gazette de Montréal, Le Droit) followed its "guidelines" although some less
willingly than others. At External Affairs, for example, it was always
l'Équateur and les États-Unis, I never saw it otherwise. I also noticed
recently (this question comes up quite often here in Politically-Correct
Ottawa) that the French newspapers Le Parisien, Le Monde and Le Figaro all
use accented upper case.
È=alt+0200 - É=alt+0201 - À=alt+0192 - Ã=alt+0193. Hope this helps for a
start.
A+
--
Tony Vella
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
http://amedialuz.shorturl.com |
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| RobHK... |
Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 11:31 am |
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On Sat, 31 May 2008 11:23:16 -0400, Tony Vella wrote:
Quote: "RobHK" <invalid at (no spam) hjtredfn.com> wrote in message
news:00056b28$0$2964$c3e8da3 at (no spam) news.astraweb.com...
Excusez ma paresse si j'ecris en anglais. De toute facon je n'arrive
pas a faire les accents...
I'd be interested in the views of native French speakers (and others)
on the use of accents on capital letters. I was brought up that you
simply didn't do it. But a translator doing a job for me has accented
the initial letter of Etats-Unis. Her argument, which makes a lot of
sense, is that if you don't you have problems with the spellchecker,
and I can see that you would also run into issues with automatic change
of case. I googled Etats-Unis, and both accented and unaccented forms
are to be found.
What are any related issues? Is it possible to set MS Word (for
example) to display E'tats-Unis (E' representing E acute) as Etats-Unis
while recognising the accented character in spell-checks and automatic
changes of case?
Hello Rob.
All the years I worked in the Canadian federal government management
insisted on all accents being shown in both upper and lower case. In
those days such rules and regulations were established for federal
government departments through the Department of Public Works' Federal
Identity Program, however, all the provincial governments and the
private sector (Gazette de Montréal, Le Droit) followed its "guidelines"
although some less willingly than others. At External Affairs, for
example, it was always l'Équateur and les États-Unis, I never saw it
otherwise. I also noticed recently (this question comes up quite often
here in Politically-Correct Ottawa) that the French newspapers Le
Parisien, Le Monde and Le Figaro all use accented upper case.
È=alt+0200 - É=alt+0201 - À=alt+0192 - Ã=alt+0193. Hope this helps for
a start.
A+
Interesting. The translator in question is Canadian. |
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| Jean Munier... |
Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 2:36 pm |
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"RobHK" <invalid at (no spam) hjtredfn.com> wrote in message
news:00056b28$0$2964$c3e8da3 at (no spam) news.astraweb.com...
Quote: Excusez ma paresse si j'ecris en anglais. De toute facon
je n'arrive pas
a faire les accents...
I'd be interested in the views of native French speakers
(and others) on
the use of accents on capital letters. I was brought up
that you simply
didn't do it. But a translator doing a job for me has
accented the
initial letter of Etats-Unis. Her argument, which makes a
lot of sense,
is that if you don't you have problems with the
spellchecker, and I can
see that you would also run into issues with automatic
change of case. I
googled Etats-Unis, and both accented and unaccented forms
are to be
found.
Le site de l'Académie française répond à votre question:
http://www.academie-francaise.fr/langue/questions.html
(Cliquez sur « Accentuation des majuscules »)
Si quelqu'un vous affirme le contraire, ce sera lui (ou
elle) contre l'Académie française et devinez quoi ? Il ou
elle prétendra en savoir plus que cette docte Académie :-)
Quote: What are any related issues? Is it possible to set MS Word
(for example)
to display E'tats-Unis (E' representing E acute) as
Etats-Unis while
recognising the accented character in spell-checks and
automatic changes
of case?
Aucun problème si vous marquez le texte voulu et si vous
imposez Français (Canada) comme langue:
Tools
Language
Set Language
French (Canada)
Greetings,
Jean |
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| Jean Munier... |
Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 3:28 pm |
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"mb" <azythos2 at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4db4c33e-21c4-4d70-9983-c688c916dc20 at (no spam) p25g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
On May 31, 12:36 pm, "Jean Munier"
....
Quote: (Cliquez sur « Accentuation des majuscules »)
Si quelqu'un vous affirme le contraire, ce sera lui (ou
elle) contre l'Académie française et devinez quoi ? Il ou
elle prétendra en savoir plus que cette docte Académie
Refuser de changer des habitudes du temps de l'école
primaire et de la
machine à écrire n'est pas forcément à interpréter comme «en
savoir
plus».
================
Sans doute. Mais souvent ceux et celles qui "refusent de
changer des habitudes du temps de l'école primaire"
soutiennent mordicus que l'accentuation des majuscules est
fautive. C'est là l'erreur. Au Canada, le problème ne se
pose plus : on accentue systématiquement.
J. |
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| Neil Coffey... |
Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 11:05 pm |
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Jean Munier wrote:
Quote: Le site de l'Académie française répond à votre question:
http://www.academie-francaise.fr/langue/questions.html
(Cliquez sur « Accentuation des majuscules »)
Si quelqu'un vous affirme le contraire, ce sera lui (ou
elle) contre l'Académie française et devinez quoi ? Il ou
elle prétendra en savoir plus que cette docte Académie
LOL -- I can only wonder what sort of medieval printing press
our friends at the 'docte Académie' are using that makes their
"frais de composition" higher if they ask for accents on the
capitals -- now you know where your French taxes are going...
Neil |
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| Rob... |
Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:16 am |
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Guest
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On 31 May 2008 16:31:57 GMT, RobHK <invalid at (no spam) hjtredfn.com> wrote:
Quote: È=alt+0200 - É=alt+0201 - À=alt+0192 - Á=alt+0193. Hope this helps for
a start.
Thanks, but that wasn't the issue. It's that I was using a laptop with
no numerical pad. (There is, I now see, a way of using certain keys as
if numerical pad, but I haven't tried it yet and it might be awkward
to constantly click the Num Lock on and off.) |
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| Tony Vella... |
Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:26 am |
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Guest
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"Rob" <f8YRm9 at (no spam) spambobDELETETHIS.net> wrote in message
news:o41544tpfq4bs58vk0sjtjk8lcanm3j70d at (no spam) 4ax.com...
Quote: On 31 May 2008 16:31:57 GMT, RobHK <invalid at (no spam) hjtredfn.com> wrote:
È=alt+0200 - É=alt+0201 - À=alt+0192 - Á=alt+0193. Hope this helps for
a start.
Thanks, but that wasn't the issue. It's that I was using a laptop with
no numerical pad. (There is, I now see, a way of using certain keys as
if numerical pad, but I haven't tried it yet and it might be awkward
to constantly click the Num Lock on and off.)
Hi Rod. I was the one who gave you those examples. My desk tops are both
Canadian HPs and both come with a number pad so entering alt codes is easy.
My laptop is a Danish machine - a Compaq purchased in Copenhagen - and does
not have a number pad but, as you say, it has keys that can be used as
numbers. However, even with it I have no problem getting all the alt codes
I need: ç, Ç, ë, Ë, ñ, Ñ, etc. After 2 or 3 longish documents you don't
even realize you are alt-coding any more.
Some people find it easier though to go to "regional and language options"
in the control panel and add a French keyboard which can be toggled with any
others (maximum by a simple (left)alt-shift. Then run through the keys
and annotate where the accented letters are. Hope this helps.
--
Tony Vella
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
http://amedialuz.shorturl.com |
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| Owain... |
Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:50 am |
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Tony Vella wrote:
Quote: Hi Rod. I was the one who gave you those examples. My desk tops are
both Canadian HPs and both come with a number pad so entering alt codes
is easy. ...
Some people find it easier though to go to "regional and language
options" in the control panel and add a French keyboard which can be
toggled with any others (maximum  by a simple (left)alt-shift. Then
run through the keys and annotate where the accented letters are. Hope
this helps.
The problem with a French layout is that they don't use QWERTY which can
be frustrating.
If you (in Windows) set the keyboard to US-International, ' and " are
used as modifier keys to give the following combinations
á = ' + a
é = ' + e
í = ' + i
ó = ' + o
ú = ' + u
ñ = ~ + n
ü = " + u
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout#US-International
British users might find the UK Extended Keyboard helpful
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout#United_Kingdom_extended
In particular, the apostrophe key is not changed into a dead key
modifying the character generated by the next key pressed, as used by
the US International layout.
Owain |
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| Athel Cornish-Bowden... |
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:45 am |
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On 2008-06-01 17:50:13 +0200, Owain <owain47125 at (no spam) stirlingcity.coo.uk> said:
Quote: Tony Vella wrote:
Hi Rod. I was the one who gave you those examples. My desk tops are
both Canadian HPs and both come with a number pad so entering alt codes
is easy. ...
Some people find it easier though to go to "regional and language
options" in the control panel and add a French keyboard which can be
toggled with any others (maximum  by a simple (left)alt-shift. Then
run through the keys and annotate where the accented letters are. Hope
this helps.
The problem with a French layout is that they don't use QWERTY which
can be frustrating.
True, but it's surprising how quickly the brain can adapt. When I first
lived in France and started typing extensively on AZERTY keyboards
around 20 years ago I had q and a switched around all the time, but
then I got used to it. However, I still have to use QWERTY keyboards
occasionally, and at the beginning it was difficult to get used to them
again. Now, however, I find that when I need to use a QWERTY keyboard I
adapt to it within a few minutes (though still with occasional errors
-- q for a, z for w, comma for m, etc.). What I found more difficult to
adapt to at the beginning is that French AZERTY keyboards treat numbers
as upper-case, and the full stop (period) is also upper-case (I'm sure
whether these also apply to Canadian AZERTY). I should add that I don't
touch-type -- I still look at the keys after many years of typing.
--
athel |
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