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Marcus Aurelius...

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 7:14 am

Guest

Please write to your Federal Senators and your Congressional
Representative to oppose and vote against H.R. 5924, The Emergency
Nursing Supply Relief Act.
I am a male R.N..
The cause of the nursing shortage is "monopoly capitalism"
concommitant with affirmative action programs and discrimination
against men in nursing. Our courts, our legislators, and our
regulatory bodies do not protect men from discrimination in nursing
nor do they encourage men to remain in nursing.
Men leave nursing at approximately twice the rate as women do.
Both men and women leave nursing at a very high rate due to poor
working conditions, the lack of job security, and the lack of job
benefits that other occupations have.
This act is a continuing attempt by the health care industry to
"monopolize" labor, through the immigration to the USA of massive
numbers of foreign nurses, in the health care industry such as to
maintain a labor force which is not subject to the normal "free
market" and "competitive" forces of true capitalism.
Laws which would address the causes of the nursing shortage (poor
working conditions, poor job security, the lack of appropriate
benefits) in the USA rather are opposed by the health care industry
as inimical to their monopoly of the nursing labor market and the
unjust profits which they accumulate as a result of the same.
Rather, legislation addressing the causes of the nursing shortage
would be the most appropriate long term strategy for alleviating the
nursing shortage and justly compensating those American citizens who
take the time and effort to become Registered Nurses and to remain in
nursing.

...

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 11:41 pm

Guest

On May 5, 1:14 pm, Marcus Aurelius <alexander... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:

Quote:

I am a male RN as well, and have seen a good number of hospitals,
Obviously you have no idea what you talking about. There are not
enough qualified citizens to fill the neccesery job spots. It is not
that people do not want to be nurses, is it that the job discription
requires a lot of skill and knoweledge that not just everyone can
easly accomplish. IT will realisticly take many many years to
replanish nursing shortage. But TODAY when you get nursing ratio 7
patients to 1 nurse, the American citizens are the ones who end up
getting garbige for care and short end of the stick and potential
endanger their lives due to lake of appropriate nursing staffing.
Regardless of possible the root of the problem is ,,,, the problem is
a big elefant infornt of everyones face. and Unless you work in ivory
tower high paid nursing jobs up north and south west areas of the US,
you have no idea how bad it is in some other states. As as nurse you
should be concerned about pt safety Right NOW and thats exactly what
we DO NOT Have. It makes me gisgusted when someone posts stuff like
you do becuase of their own personal negative expereince and has no
cosiderations for other health professionals needs of the country.
get real
thanks

Marcus Aurelius...

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:39 am

Guest

Here is a good reply,in the form of a URL, to your support for the
massive immigration to the USA of foreign nurses:
<http://groups.google.com/group/tiredofliberals/browse_thread/thread/
46f1540e0a52ec1f/f16cca4e0837e372?lnk=st&q=%22foreign+nurses
%22#f16cca4e0837e372>
On May 28, 4:41 am, AriYa... at (no spam) gmail.com wrote:

Quote:

On May 5, 1:14 pm, Marcus Aurelius <alexander... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:

Please write to your Federal Senators and your Congressional
Representative to oppose and vote against H.R. 5924, The Emergency
Nursing Supply Relief Act.
I am a male R.N..
The cause of the nursing shortage is "monopoly capitalism"
concommitant with affirmative action programs and discrimination
against men in nursing. Our courts, our legislators, and our
regulatory bodies do not protect men from discrimination in nursing
nor do they encourage men to remain in nursing.
Men leave nursing at approximately twice the rate as women do.
Both men and women leave nursing at a very high rate due to poor
working conditions, the lack of job security, and the lack of job
benefits that other occupations have.
This act is a continuing attempt by the health care industry to
"monopolize" labor, through the immigration to the USA of massive
numbers offoreignnurses, in the health care industry such as to
maintain a labor force which is not subject to the normal "free
market" and "competitive" forces of true capitalism.
Laws which would address the causes of the nursing shortage (poor
working conditions, poor job security, the lack of appropriate
benefits) in the USA rather are opposed by the health care industry
as inimical to their monopoly of the nursing labor market and the
unjust profits which they accumulate as a result of the same.
Rather, legislation addressing the causes of the nursing shortage
would be the most appropriate long term strategy for alleviating the
nursing shortage and justly compensating those American citizens who
take the time and effort to become Registered Nurses and to remain in
nursing.

I am a male RN as well, and have seen a good number of hospitals,
Obviously you have no idea what you talking about. There are not
enough qualified citizens to fill the neccesery job spots. It is not
that people do not want to be nurses, is it that the job discription
requires a lot of skill and knoweledge that not just everyone can
easly accomplish. IT will realisticly take many many years to
replanish nursing shortage. But TODAY when you get nursing ratio 7
patients to 1nurse, the American citizens are the ones who end up
getting garbige for care and short end of the stick and potential
endanger their lives due to lake of appropriate nursing staffing.
Regardless of possible the root of the problem is ,,,, the problem is
a big elefant infornt of everyones face. and Unless you work in ivory
tower high paid nursing jobs up north and south west areas of the US,
you have no idea how bad it is in some other states. As asnurseyou
should be concerned about pt safety Right NOW and thats exactly what
we DO NOT Have. It makes me gisgusted when someone posts stuff like
you do becuase of their own personal negative expereince and has no
cosiderations for other health professionals needs of the country.
get real
thanks- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Marcus Aurelius...

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:45 am

Guest

My original link, in the form of a reply to Ariya's reply to my post
didn't work.
As a result, I have to post the entire Google post from the link as a
reply to Ariya's post:
NEW YORK TIMES EDITORIAL FORUM 1 (7023)
RN's (233)
soc.men
Recently visited [clear]
alt.politics
alt.politics.usa
alt.war.vietnam
can.politics
misc.legal
sci.life-extension
sci.med
sci.med.nursing
seattle.politics
soc.culture.australian
soc.culture.usa
soc.veterans
tiredofliberals
uk.gov.social-security
us.legal

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NEW EMERGENCY -- Stop 90,000 new foreign nurses Options
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Rick Johnson View profile From: Roy Beck, President,
NumbersUSA Date: Friday 8DEC06 4:30 p.m. EST Backroom
negotiations underway to bring 90,000 MORE foreign NURSES next year --
Phone to stop *ANTI-AMERICAN WORKER EFFORTS NEVER STOP -- BUT WE
DON'T EITHER, DO WE?* We've just learned that the other Texas
Republican Senator (Kay Bailey Hutchison) is negotiating furiously to
pass a foreign nurses bill tonight. While Sen. Cornyn (R-TX) remains
stymied in passing his bill to increase overall skilled workers by
several hundred thousand next year, Hutchison is greasing the skids
for another slam against American nurses. *CALL YOUR TWO SENATORS --
NOW!!!! Capitol Switchboard 202-224-3121* Choose from the following in
what to say: 1. I just heard that Sen. Hutchison is nearing a deal to
import another 90,000 foreign nurses next year. 2. I oppose yet
another effort to undercut the wages and working conditions of
American nurses. 3. The country has tens of thousand s of trained
nurses who are waiting for working conditions to improve before
returning to their field. If you keep importing foreign nurses, the
improvement will never happen. 4. Unless you want to stop American
girls and boys from pursuing nursing careers in the future, you must
stop turning it into a foreign profession. 5. Sen. Hutchison's chronic
efforts to flood the country with foreign nurses are thwarting the
ability of the free-market system to entice and reward career choices
based on what skills are needed by our society. Sen. Hutchison is
ruining the nursing profession year by year. 6. Adjourn, end this
Congress and go home without adding ANY more foreign workers of any
kind. 7. Many politicians such as Sen. Hutchison seem to believe that
because nursing is a tough, demanding job that the pay and working
conditions should be constantly undermined and that only "foreign
serfs" should do the work. That is a terrible principle. In our
society, the tougher the job and the more difficulty in filling it,
the more pay should increase and the more employers should strive to
improve the working conditions. Efforts like Sen. Hutchison's
represent an unethical kind of classism that should be repugnant in a
21st century American Congress. *If you are reading this, please call
-- because most people won't see this email in time! EXTRA CREDIT
ACTIVITY After you have called your two Senators, we have a few very
special leaders who need extra calls, if you have time, and especially
if you live in their state or region: Senate Majority Leader Frist (R-
TN) Senate Majority Whip McConnell (R-KY) Senate Minority Leader Reid
(D-NV) Senate Minority Whip Durbin (D-IL) House Speaker Hastert (R-IL)
House Majority Leader Boehner (R-OH) House Majority Whip Blunt (R-MO)
House Minority Leader Pelosi (D-CA) House Minor ity Whip Hoyer (D-MD)
Senate Judiciary Chairman Specter (R-PA) Senate Judiciary Ranking
Member Leahy (D-VT) House Judiciary Chairman Sensenbrenner (R-WI)
House Judiciary Ranking Member Conyers (D-MI) I certainly hope you
Texans are doing everything you can to let your two Senators know how
disappointed you are them. MAKE SURE THEIR HOME STATE OFFICES ARE
GETTING A LOT OF CALLS, TOO. Let's not let all of our American nurses
(both native-born and foreign-born) down. They deserve the support of
all of us in this moment of great threat. Sen. Hutchison has succeeded
in sneaking through similar giant increases in foreign nurses in past
years. She has to be competing for the title of the Most Anti-Nurse
Person in America. THANKS FOR JUST A FEW MORE PHONE CALLS BEFORE
CONGRESS LEAVES TOWN, -- ROY P.S. You all have done a remarkable job
of keeping the phones busy all d ay today in the Senate on the Cornyn
H-1B bill. The word we had from many congressional staffers today is
that the tech industry lobbyists -- especially Microsoft lobbyists --
are fit to be tied. They cannot believe that so many Members whom they
thought they had purchased with campaign contributions are standing up
against them on this bill. You know the only reason they are standing
up is because of your pressure/support. We are told that the lobbyists
have begun calling some congressional offices in tirades hurling all
kinds of threats about the future. You've held them off this long.
Keep the pressure today until the switchboards close. Our goal is that
the House will leave town later this evening before the Senate has
passed Cornyn or Hutchison and we will have won. Although the Senate
likely will be in session tomorrow, it won't do any good for them to
pass something that the House has not already passed, since the House
won't be around to vote on an ything after it leaves town. AN EXAMPLE
OF MANY EMAILS FROM VICTIMIZED AMERICANS "In response to those who are
hestitant about opposing H-1B. "In the next five years my wife, a
nurse for 32 years and still working for another 10, and I will have
spent/borrowed over $250,000 to educate my son as an engineer and
daughter as a nurse. "My family has been here since the 1850's and my
wife's family since 1880's. Our kids have worked extremely hard and
our family has sacrificed much for them to achieve their goals. They
have suffered much from immigration. A fair number of our professional
friends and associates have lost their jobs and careers because of
technical foreign workers working for less pay. "I support education
anywhere in the world and welcome people who want to be educated here
but we are flooded by those who stay. "Remind politicans they work for
us and not for themselves." * __._,_.___
More options Dec 9 2006, 6:36 am

From: "Rick Johnson" <rebelf... at (no spam) gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 06:36:35 -0500
Local: Sat, Dec 9 2006 6:36 am
Subject: NEW EMERGENCY -- Stop 90,000 new foreign nurses
Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original
| Report this message | Find messages by this author
From: Roy Beck, President, NumbersUSA Date: Friday
8DEC06
4:30 p.m. EST Backroom negotiations underway to bring 90,000 MORE
foreign
NURSES next year -- Phone to stop *ANTI-AMERICAN WORKER EFFORTS
NEVER
STOP -- BUT WE DON'T EITHER, DO WE?*

We've just learned that the other Texas Republican Senator (Kay
Bailey
Hutchison) is negotiating furiously to pass a foreign nurses bill
tonight.

While Sen. Cornyn (R-TX) remains stymied in passing his bill to
increase
overall skilled workers by several hundred thousand next year,
Hutchison is
greasing the skids for another slam against American nurses.

*CALL YOUR TWO SENATORS -- NOW!!!!

Capitol Switchboard
202-224-3121*

Choose from the following in what to say:

1. I just heard that Sen. Hutchison is nearing a deal to import
another
90,000 foreign nurses next year.

2. I oppose yet another effort to undercut the wages and working
conditions
of American nurses.

3. The country has tens of thousand s of trained nurses who are
waiting for
working conditions to improve before returning to their field. If you
keep
importing foreign nurses, the improvement will never happen.

4. Unless you want to stop American girls and boys from pursuing
nursing
careers in the future, you must stop turning it into a foreign
profession.

5. Sen. Hutchison's chronic efforts to flood the country with foreign
nurses
are thwarting the ability of the free-market system to entice and
reward
career choices based on what skills are needed by our society. Sen.
Hutchison is ruining the nursing profession year by year.

6. Adjourn, end this Congress and go home without adding ANY more
foreign
workers of any kind.

7. Many politicians such as Sen. Hutchison seem to believe that
because
nursing is a tough, demanding job that the pay and working conditions
should
be constantly undermined and that only "foreign serfs" should do the
work.
That is a terrible principle. In our society, the tougher the job and
the
more difficulty in filling it, the more pay should increase and the
more
employers should strive to improve the working conditions. Efforts
like Sen.
Hutchison's represent an unethical kind of classism that should be
repugnant
in a 21st century American Congress.

*If you are reading this, please call -- because most people won't see
this
email in time!

EXTRA CREDIT ACTIVITY

After you have called your two Senators, we have a few very special
leaders
who need extra calls, if you have time, and especially if you live in
their
state or region:

Senate Majority Leader Frist (R-TN)
Senate Majority Whip McConnell (R-KY)
Senate Minority Leader Reid (D-NV)
Senate Minority Whip Durbin (D-IL)
House Speaker Hastert (R-IL)
House Majority Leader Boehner (R-OH)
House Majority Whip Blunt (R-MO)
House Minority Leader Pelosi (D-CA)
House Minor ity Whip Hoyer (D-MD)
Senate Judiciary Chairman Specter (R-PA)
Senate Judiciary Ranking Member Leahy (D-VT)
House Judiciary Chairman Sensenbrenner (R-WI)
House Judiciary Ranking Member Conyers (D-MI)

I certainly hope you Texans are doing everything you can to let your
two
Senators know how disappointed you are them. MAKE SURE THEIR HOME
STATE
OFFICES ARE GETTING A LOT OF CALLS, TOO.

Let's not let all of our American nurses (both native-born and foreign-
born)
down. They deserve the support of all of us in this moment of great
threat.

Sen. Hutchison has succeeded in sneaking through similar giant
increases in
foreign nurses in past years. She has to be competing for the title of
the
Most Anti-Nurse Person in America.

THANKS FOR JUST A FEW MORE PHONE CALLS BEFORE CONGRESS LEAVES TOWN,

-- ROY

P.S. You all have done a remarkable job of keeping the phones busy all
d ay
today in the Senate on the Cornyn H-1B bill.

The word we had from many congressional staffers today is that the
tech
industry lobbyists -- especially Microsoft lobbyists -- are fit to be
tied.
They cannot believe that so many Members whom they thought they had
purchased with campaign contributions are standing up against them on
this
bill. You know the only reason they are standing up is because of
your
pressure/support. We are told that the lobbyists have begun calling
some
congressional offices in tirades hurling all kinds of threats about
the
future.

You've held them off this long. Keep the pressure today until the
switchboards close. Our goal is that the House will leave town later
this
evening before the Senate has passed Cornyn or Hutchison and we will
have
won. Although the Senate likely will be in session tomorrow, it won't
do any
good for them to pass something that the House has not already passed,
since
the House won't be around to vote on an ything after it leaves town.

AN EXAMPLE OF MANY EMAILS FROM VICTIMIZED AMERICANS

"In response to those who are hestitant about opposing H-1B.

"In the next five years my wife, a nurse for 32 years and still
working for
another 10, and I will have spent/borrowed over $250,000 to educate my
son
as an engineer and daughter as a nurse.

"My family has been here since the 1850's and my wife's family since
1880's.
Our kids have worked extremely hard and our family has sacrificed much
for
them to achieve their goals. They have suffered much from immigration.
A
fair number of our professional friends and associates have lost their
jobs
and careers because of technical foreign workers working for less
pay.

"I support education anywhere in the world and welcome people who want
to be
educated here but we are flooded by those who stay.

"Remind politicans they work for us and not for themselves."
* __._,_.___

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...

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:45 am

Guest

Quote:

On Jun 3, 9:45 am, Marcus Aurelius <alexander... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:

i'm skeptical that you're a male RN, though i'll take you at your
word. look around. what's the average age of an RN? 45? they'll
retire, just as demand peaks. do you talk about the specifics of this
profession?

you also seem to ignore the specifics of HR 5924, which will provide
grants to address the education needs for American nurses.

should that actually work, i imagine no immigration would be required.
do you oppose the grants, too?

Finally, do you dispute the determination published by Heritage
Foundation, Wall Street Journal and elsewhere that the nursing
shortage will cost lives?

I was a software engineer during the dot com bubble. I know how it
feels to be in high demand. But tell your parents that the consequence
of a nursing shortage is death.

Marcus Aurelius...

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:42 am

Guest

The following is part of a transcript, during a recent Congressional
Hearing, in which an AFL-CIO representative stated that organization's
opposition to HR 5924:
"NEED FOR GREEN CARDS FOR SKILLED WORKERS

Statement of Steven Francy Executive Director, RNs Working Together
AFL-CIO

Committee on House Judiciary Subcommittee on Immigration,
Citizenship,
Refugees, Border Security, and International Law

June 12, 2008

My name is Steven Francy and I am the Executive Director of RNs
Working Together, AFL-CIO. I want to thank you for the opportunity to
present our views on the issue of whether the expansion of work visas
to foreign nurses is an appropriate solution to the nursing shortage
that our nation faces.

First a little about the organization RNs Working Together (RNWT). We
are a coalition of ten AFL-CIO unions who represent over 200,000
working registered nurses. Each affiliate union has 2 of its nurse
leaders who serve on the RNs Working Together Leadership Committee.
One of their responsibilities is to set policy for our organization.
We are a democratic organization and operate by building mutual
agreement among our members regarding issues that concern working
registered nurses.

First of all, the continuing shortage of Registered Nurses is a
problem that virtually everyone acknowledges. If you were to walk the
halls of America`s hospitals and asked a nurse what is the number one
problem that they face, they would probably say, ``we do not have
enough staff to deliver quality care.`` While we appreciate
everyone`s
efforts in trying to address this crisis, we do not believe that
relying upon thousands of additional foreign nurses to deliver health
care in the United States is an appropriate solution to the nursing
shortage.

There are many factors that contribute the current nursing shortage.
Two of the major factors that I would like to draw your attention to
today is our inability to train enough Americans to become registered
nurses and the difficult working conditions that working nurses face.
To resolve these, and other factors that contribute to the nursing
shortage, will require a focused, comprehensive strategy.

First, we do not have the capacity to train enough nurses. Last year
alone, approximately one hundred and fifty thousand (150,000)
qualified applicants for nursing schools were turned away because
there were not enough seats available. Our inability to train these
applicants is due to a shortage of RN faculty who are often paid less
than practicing nurses. Congress needs to pass legislation that will
increase the capacity of nursing schools to train nurses. This would
include incentives to attract nurse faculty as well as to actively
recruit and provide financial assistance to those Americans who would
like to become nurses.

In addition, it is estimated that there are 2.9 million licensed RNs
in the U.S., but only 2.4 million are providing care to patients.
Hundreds of thousands of licensed nurses have left the bed-side in
favor of the many other job options now available from outpatient
jobs, computer jobs, quality management, doctor`s offices,
pharmaceutical jobs or leaving nursing entirely. A key reason for
this
migration away from the bedside is that chronic understaffing and
unmanageable workloads are a day-to-day reality. While increasing the
number of visas may seem like an easy solution, in reality it does
nothing to retain nurses that are already trained, skilled
professionals. Stopping this leakage of nurses will require Congress
to direct their attention to this issue and pass legislation that
will
directly improve working conditions. Examples include prohibiting
mandatory overtime and requiring hospitals to meet safe minimum
staffing levels. We are confident that by taking these steps, those
nurses who have left the profession and those that are now thinking
about leaving the profession will come back and care for America`s
sick.

As you know, America is not the only country facing a nurse shortage.
Indeed there is a worldwide shortage of registered nurses. Thus the
use of immigration policies that allegedly benefit one country in the
short-run can be devastating to a developing country`s ability to
deliver health care to their citizens. Some countries have an even
greater shortage of nurses and any loss of the nurses they have
trained can undermine their government`s efforts to staff their own
hospitals and clinics. In one year alone, Ghana lost more than 500
nurses - more than double the number of its new nurse graduates. In
the Philippines, not only are they losing more nurses than graduate
from nursing schools, now even doctors are training to become nurses
in the hopes that they will find employment in the U.S. In Zimbabwe,
it has been estimated that the nurse to patient ratio is 1 nurse to
700 patients. Obviously, nurses in developing countries will find
coming to America for a job very attractive, as they will experience
a
great increase in their incomes. But expanding nurse visas simply out
sources nurse training to developing countries and robs them of many
of the nurses they have trained. In sum, taking nurses from poor
countries will have a small short-run impact on the U. S. while
increasing the short and long-term misery of poor, developing
countries.

Again, I understand that increasing the number of work visas seems
like an easy solution. However, we believe that developing a
comprehensive long-term strategy that directly addresses the factors
contributing to the nurse shortage in our country, such as increasing
our capacity to educate new nurses and improving working conditions,
is a more productive use of time and resources and is the only real
way in which America can solve this long-term issue.

Thank you again for the opportunity to provide testimony regarding
this important and difficult issue. I can answer any question you can
have. "

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