On May 15, 12:43 pm, George <gbl... at (no spam) hnpl.net> wrote:

On May 15, 9:49 am, Jack Linthicum <jacklinthi... at (no spam) earthlink.net
Nope.

People only move when there is pressure.
Either lack of food or population pressure pushing the smaller tribes
away from the good food sources.
Hunters follow prey.
If they prefer marine mammals as a food source they will follow those
prey animals along the coast and achieve the same result as your
quoted umiak.
Far more probable than using a boat type that has little history
beyond 4000 years

And further.
Umiak is an Inuit word.
The Inuit settled in the High North and not further south...
The coastal route of settlement theory needs more work

Jack Linthicum wrote: on, 15/05/2008 23:44:
On May 15, 4:46 pm, George <gbl... at (no spam) hnpl.net> wrote:
On May 15, 12:43 pm, George <gbl... at (no spam) hnpl.net> wrote:

On May 15, 9:49 am, Jack Linthicum <jacklinthi... at (no spam) earthlink.net
Nope.
People only move when there is pressure.
Either lack of food or population pressure pushing the smaller tribes
away from the good food sources.
Hunters follow prey.
If they prefer marine mammals as a food source they will follow those
prey animals along the coast and achieve the same result as your
quoted umiak.
Far more probable than using a boat type that has little history
beyond 4000 years
And further.
Umiak is an Inuit word.
The Inuit settled in the High North and not further south...
The coastal route of settlement theory needs more work

How did all those people get across the United States in the 19th
century? Pressure or desire to see what lay over the next horizon?
Hamilton and Buchanan seem to feel the Clovis hunters had a taste for
the horizon and kept moving quicker than any pressure seems to have
required.

Dispersal does not requires (population) pressure
They simply used the land that came available when
the ice retrated.



Please demonstrate what other type of water craft could have made the
trip. Just saying it can't be X is not an answer, since we know from
On Your Knees and Arlington Springs that fairly lengthy water trips
were taken. No large wood in Beringa, precluding rafts and dugouts.

Very likely a lot of driftwood.

That leaves skinboats, if you don't like the term umiak. try the Aleut
word Nidiliq.

http://www.cma.soton.ac.uk/HistShip/shlect50.htm

How did all those people get across the United States in the 19th
century? Pressure or desire to see what lay over the next horizon?

On May 15, 4:46 pm, George <gbl... at (no spam) hnpl.net> wrote:
On May 15, 12:43 pm, George <gbl... at (no spam) hnpl.net> wrote:

On May 15, 9:49 am, Jack Linthicum <jacklinthi... at (no spam) earthlink.net
Nope.
People only move when there is pressure.
Either lack of food or population pressure pushing the smaller tribes
away from the good food sources.
Hunters follow prey.
If they prefer marine mammals as a food source they will follow those
prey animals along the coast and achieve the same result as your
quoted umiak.
Far more probable than using a boat type that has little history
beyond 4000 years
And further.
Umiak is an Inuit word.
The Inuit settled in the High North and not further south...
The coastal route of settlement theory needs more work

How did all those people get across the United States in the 19th
century? Pressure or desire to see what lay over the next horizon?
Hamilton and Buchanan seem to feel the Clovis hunters had a taste for
the horizon and kept moving quicker than any pressure seems to have
required.

Please demonstrate what other type of water craft could have made the
trip. Just saying it can't be X is not an answer, since we know from
On Your Knees and Arlington Springs that fairly lengthy water trips
were taken. No large wood in Beringa, precluding rafts and dugouts.

That leaves skinboats, if you don't like the term umiak. try the Aleut
word Nidiliq.

http://www.cma.soton.ac.uk/HistShip/shlect50.htm

I think W (or, as the incomers I quoted above would have said,
'V' -- and no, not *that* V) melted her down. Copper sells for a
lot these days, and a big ranch in a country without extradition
to the U.S. costs mucho dinero.

On May 16, 9:44 am, Jack Linthicum <jacklinthi... at (no spam) earthlink.net
wrote:

How did all those people get across the United States in the 19th
century? Pressure or desire to see what lay over the next horizon?

They were pushed out of their native countries by pressures like
The potato famine.
Impossible land rents
Lack of inheritance
Religious bigotry
and so on

Isn't there a statue somewhere in America that wants "The huddled
masses"?

Jack Linthicum wrote: on, 15/05/2008 23:44:
On May 15, 4:46 pm, George <gbl... at (no spam) hnpl.net> wrote:
On May 15, 12:43 pm, George <gbl... at (no spam) hnpl.net> wrote:

On May 15, 9:49 am, Jack Linthicum <jacklinthi... at (no spam) earthlink.net
Nope.
People only move when there is pressure.
Either lack of food or population pressure pushing the smaller tribes
away from the good food sources.
Hunters follow prey.
If they prefer marine mammals as a food source they will follow those
prey animals along the coast and achieve the same result as your
quoted umiak.
Far more probable than using a boat type that has little history
beyond 4000 years
And further.
Umiak is an Inuit word.
The Inuit settled in the High North and not further south...
The coastal route of settlement theory needs more work

How did all those people get across the United States in the 19th
century? Pressure or desire to see what lay over the next horizon?
Hamilton and Buchanan seem to feel the Clovis hunters had a taste for
the horizon and kept moving quicker than any pressure seems to have
required.

Dispersal does not requires (population) pressure
They simply used the land that came available when
the ice retrated.



Please demonstrate what other type of water craft could have made the
trip. Just saying it can't be X is not an answer, since we know from
On Your Knees and Arlington Springs that fairly lengthy water trips
were taken. No large wood in Beringa, precluding rafts and dugouts.

Very likely a lot of driftwood.

That leaves skinboats, if you don't like the term umiak. try the Aleut
word Nidiliq.

http://www.cma.soton.ac.uk/HistShip/shlect50.htm

Jack Linthicum wrote: on, 18/05/2008 19:36:
On May 15, 5:53 pm, Peter Alaca <p.al... at (no spam) purple.invalid> wrote:
Jack Linthicum wrote: on, 15/05/2008 23:44:
On May 15, 4:46 pm, George <gbl... at (no spam) hnpl.net> wrote:
On May 15, 12:43 pm, George <gbl... at (no spam) hnpl.net> wrote:
On May 15, 9:49 am, Jack Linthicum <jacklinthi... at (no spam) earthlink.net
Nope.
People only move when there is pressure.
Either lack of food or population pressure pushing the smaller tribes
away from the good food sources.
Hunters follow prey.
If they prefer marine mammals as a food source they will follow those
prey animals along the coast and achieve the same result as your
quoted umiak.
Far more probable than using a boat type that has little history
beyond 4000 years
And further.
Umiak is an Inuit word.
The Inuit settled in the High North and not further south...
The coastal route of settlement theory needs more work
How did all those people get across the United States in the 19th
century? Pressure or desire to see what lay over the next horizon?
Hamilton and Buchanan seem to feel the Clovis hunters had a taste for
the horizon and kept moving quicker than any pressure seems to have
required.
Dispersal does not requires (population) pressure
They simply used the land that came available when
the ice retrated.

Please demonstrate what other type of water craft could have made the
trip. Just saying it can't be X is not an answer, since we know from
On Your Knees and Arlington Springs that fairly lengthy water trips
were taken. No large wood in Beringa, precluding rafts and dugouts.
Very likely a lot of driftwood.

That leaves skinboats, if you don't like the term umiak. try the Aleut
word Nidiliq.
http://www.cma.soton.ac.uk/HistShip/shlect50.htm

Has anyone read:

European Journal of Archaeology, Vol. 7, No. 3, 273-290 (2004)
DOI: 10.1177/1461957104056504
© 2004 European Association of Archaeologists, SAGE Publications
Deep-Sea Fishing in the European Mesolithic: Fact or Fantasy?
Catriona Pickard

University of Edinburgh, UK, Catriona.Pick... at (no spam) ed.ac.uk

Clive Bonsall

University of Edinburgh, UK, C.Bons... at (no spam) ed.ac.uk

In know title and abstract, that's all.
Earlier I was unable to find the article for free
And the abstract is too limited. That's why I never
posted about it.



"Some previous authors have argued for the practice of offshore, deep-
water fishing in the European Mesolithic. In this article, various
lines of evidence are brought to bear on this question: the kinds of
fishing gear employed, the evidence relating to the use of boats and
navigation, site location, ethnographic data, and fish biology and
behaviour. It is concluded that the existence of deep-sea fisheries
cannot be demonstrated on the basis of the available data. However,
around much of Europe Mesolithic shorelines now lie below sea level
and the study highlights the need for underwater archaeological
investigation of submerged landscapes."

I am curious if its negative findings rely upon the existence or
nonexistence of watercraft in the time under examination.

On May 15, 5:53 pm, Peter Alaca <p.al... at (no spam) purple.invalid> wrote:
Jack Linthicum wrote: on, 15/05/2008 23:44:
On May 15, 4:46 pm, George <gbl... at (no spam) hnpl.net> wrote:
On May 15, 12:43 pm, George <gbl... at (no spam) hnpl.net> wrote:
On May 15, 9:49 am, Jack Linthicum <jacklinthi... at (no spam) earthlink.net
Nope.
People only move when there is pressure.
Either lack of food or population pressure pushing the smaller tribes
away from the good food sources.
Hunters follow prey.
If they prefer marine mammals as a food source they will follow those
prey animals along the coast and achieve the same result as your
quoted umiak.
Far more probable than using a boat type that has little history
beyond 4000 years
And further.
Umiak is an Inuit word.
The Inuit settled in the High North and not further south...
The coastal route of settlement theory needs more work
How did all those people get across the United States in the 19th
century? Pressure or desire to see what lay over the next horizon?
Hamilton and Buchanan seem to feel the Clovis hunters had a taste for
the horizon and kept moving quicker than any pressure seems to have
required.
Dispersal does not requires (population) pressure
They simply used the land that came available when
the ice retrated.



Please demonstrate what other type of water craft could have made the
trip. Just saying it can't be X is not an answer, since we know from
On Your Knees and Arlington Springs that fairly lengthy water trips
were taken. No large wood in Beringa, precluding rafts and dugouts.
Very likely a lot of driftwood.

That leaves skinboats, if you don't like the term umiak. try the Aleut
word Nidiliq.
http://www.cma.soton.ac.uk/HistShip/shlect50.htm

Has anyone read:

European Journal of Archaeology, Vol. 7, No. 3, 273-290 (2004)
DOI: 10.1177/1461957104056504
© 2004 European Association of Archaeologists, SAGE Publications
Deep-Sea Fishing in the European Mesolithic: Fact or Fantasy?
Catriona Pickard

University of Edinburgh, UK, Catriona.Pickard at (no spam) ed.ac.uk

Clive Bonsall

University of Edinburgh, UK, C.Bonsall at (no spam) ed.ac.uk

"Some previous authors have argued for the practice of offshore, deep-
water fishing in the European Mesolithic. In this article, various
lines of evidence are brought to bear on this question: the kinds of
fishing gear employed, the evidence relating to the use of boats and
navigation, site location, ethnographic data, and fish biology and
behaviour. It is concluded that the existence of deep-sea fisheries
cannot be demonstrated on the basis of the available data. However,
around much of Europe Mesolithic shorelines now lie below sea level
and the study highlights the need for underwater archaeological
investigation of submerged landscapes."

I am curious if its negative findings rely upon the existence or
nonexistence of watercraft in the time under examination.