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Dirk Bruere at NeoPax...
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:25 pm
Guest
Looking for an electrolysis machine so I can generate H2 for use in
cooking using excess electricity produced by a small scale wind turbine.
Max likely power is 2kW.
Also looking for anyone who produces a simple method of storing a couple
of cu m of the gas (gasometer over water old style?)

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
Remote Viewing classes in London
Bill Penrose...
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:25 pm
Guest
On May 13, 6:25 pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru... at (no spam) gmail.com>
wrote:
Quote:
Looking for an electrolysis machine so I can generate H2 for use in
cooking using excess electricity produced by a small scale wind turbine.
Max likely power is 2kW.

Stainless steel rod or mesh in 1N NaOH. Put in a spray trap for
airborne NaOH drops.

The gasometer's a good bet for storage if you pressurize the whole
system, so the pressure's generated by electrolysis. Avoid the
temptation to use an electric pump. You could make it out of 2 or 3
garbage cans.

Hydrogen might not be your best cooking fuel. You'd need special jets
to burn it. Air mixing, etc, would all be different.

DB
Bill Penrose...
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:25 pm
Guest
On May 13, 5:42 pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru... at (no spam) gmail.com>
wrote:
Quote:
Overall, the efficiency doesn't have to be particularly high since the
energy is mostly 'free'.

There'll be little enough that you should still shoot for efficiency
as much as possible.

Quote:
... I'm also a bit
worried about whether the flame would be visible, and related safety
aspects.

I"m pretty sure it won't be visible, unless you can hang a crystal of
salt or something in the flame. A flammable gas alarm wouldn't be a
bad idea either.

DB
Bill Penrose...
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:25 pm
Guest
On May 13, 7:14 pm, "Androcles" <Headmas... at (no spam) Hogwarts.physics> wrote:

Quote:
I'd still go for the Mars bar.
Thanks for the laughs!

You have a wind turbine that makes Mars bars???

DB
Ken $ Tucker...
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:25 pm
Guest
On May 13, 6:25 pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru... at (no spam) gmail.com>
wrote:
Quote:
Looking for an electrolysis machine so I can generate H2 for use in
cooking using excess electricity produced by a small scale wind turbine.
Max likely power is 2kW.
Also looking for anyone who produces a simple method of storing a couple
of cu m of the gas (gasometer over water old style?)

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/- Transcendence UK
Remote Viewing classes in London

Did I ever tell you about the atomic candle I built.
Using 6V or so I electrolysed H2O using a pair of
Al plates in a jar with a hole at the top, (metal lid).
So I put a match to the hole and nothing happened.
A minute or so later I passed my hand over the
hole and was burned. It worked but the flame was
totally invisible.
The Al plates went shiny and black, of course thats
the effect of the anode and cathode.
A hydrogen flame is odorless and invisible, so be
careful.
Ken
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax...
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:42 pm
Guest
Bill Penrose wrote:
Quote:
On May 13, 6:25 pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru... at (no spam) gmail.com
wrote:
Looking for an electrolysis machine so I can generate H2 for use in
cooking using excess electricity produced by a small scale wind turbine.
Max likely power is 2kW.

Stainless steel rod or mesh in 1N NaOH. Put in a spray trap for
airborne NaOH drops.

The gasometer's a good bet for storage if you pressurize the whole
system, so the pressure's generated by electrolysis. Avoid the
temptation to use an electric pump. You could make it out of 2 or 3
garbage cans.

Hydrogen might not be your best cooking fuel. You'd need special jets
to burn it. Air mixing, etc, would all be different.

Thanks - more information in your post than I got out of a couple of
days wasted with the morons in sci.energy.hydrogen

I was thinking of pressurising it with a slab of concrete on top of the
garbage cans :-)

Overall, the efficiency doesn't have to be particularly high since the
energy is mostly 'free'. As for burning it, I'm old enough to recall
when we had to change jets from coal gas (50% H2) to methane. Ideally
I'd like to find some company that could supply them. I'm also a bit
worried about whether the flame would be visible, and related safety
aspects.

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
Remote Viewing classes in London
Mark Thorson...
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:52 pm
Guest
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
Quote:

Looking for an electrolysis machine so I can generate H2 for use in
cooking using excess electricity produced by a small scale wind turbine.

How about using the excess energy to pump water into
an elevated tank or raising a weight? Then recover
the energy as electricity, and convert it to heat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_accumulator

This is a commercial item. These people make them:

http://www.tobul.com/
hanson...
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:08 pm
Guest
"Dirk Bruere at NeoPax" <dirk.bruere at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:68utcvF2v425pU4 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
Quote:
Looking for an electrolysis machine so I can generate H2 for use in
cooking using excess electricity produced by a small scale wind turbine.
Max likely power is 2kW.
Also looking for anyone who produces a simple method of storing a couple
of cu m of the gas (gasometer over water old style?)

hanson wrote:

If you have 2 KW available why go thru these wasteful
of steps of electrolysis and cooking with H2?
Why not store your Wind electricity in a bunch of Auto
batteries (transform the V-output as needed) and cook
your food with conventional electrical heating utensils.
It's cheaper & safer and all the items are commercially
available off the shelf.
hanson
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax...
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:10 pm
Guest
Mark Thorson wrote:
Quote:
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
Looking for an electrolysis machine so I can generate H2 for use in
cooking using excess electricity produced by a small scale wind turbine.

How about using the excess energy to pump water into
an elevated tank or raising a weight? Then recover
the energy as electricity, and convert it to heat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_accumulator

This is a commercial item. These people make them:

http://www.tobul.com/

Hadn't thought of that, but it seems more complex than just collecting a
bag of H2. I'll look into it...

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
Remote Viewing classes in London
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax...
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:31 pm
Guest
hanson wrote:
Quote:
"Dirk Bruere at NeoPax" <dirk.bruere at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:68utcvF2v425pU4 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
Looking for an electrolysis machine so I can generate H2 for use in
cooking using excess electricity produced by a small scale wind turbine.
Max likely power is 2kW.
Also looking for anyone who produces a simple method of storing a couple
of cu m of the gas (gasometer over water old style?)

hanson wrote:
If you have 2 KW available why go thru these wasteful
of steps of electrolysis and cooking with H2?
Why not store your Wind electricity in a bunch of Auto
batteries (transform the V-output as needed) and cook
your food with conventional electrical heating utensils.
It's cheaper & safer and all the items are commercially
available off the shelf.
hanson


Well, auto batteries are not designed for deep discharge.
Also I was hoping to keep the battery pack size down for a number of
reasons, not least cost. The perfect battery is a long way off, and lead
acid seems to be the only real choice until A123 start selling the stuff
I need a lot cheaper.

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
Remote Viewing classes in London
Sam Wormley...
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:03 pm
Guest
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
Quote:
hanson wrote:
"Dirk Bruere at NeoPax" <dirk.bruere at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:68utcvF2v425pU4 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
Looking for an electrolysis machine so I can generate H2 for use in
cooking using excess electricity produced by a small scale wind
turbine. > Max likely power is 2kW.
Also looking for anyone who produces a simple method of storing a
couple of cu m of the gas (gasometer over water old style?)

hanson wrote:
If you have 2 KW available why go thru these wasteful
of steps of electrolysis and cooking with H2?
Why not store your Wind electricity in a bunch of Auto
batteries (transform the V-output as needed) and cook
your food with conventional electrical heating utensils.
It's cheaper & safer and all the items are commercially
available off the shelf.
hanson


Well, auto batteries are not designed for deep discharge.
Also I was hoping to keep the battery pack size down for a number of
reasons, not least cost. The perfect battery is a long way off, and lead
acid seems to be the only real choice until A123 start selling the stuff
I need a lot cheaper.


Do your cooking when the wind blows, your gardening when it's not
raining and your reading when the sun is up.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax...
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:11 pm
Guest
Mark Thorson wrote:
Quote:
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
Looking for an electrolysis machine so I can generate H2 for use in
cooking using excess electricity produced by a small scale wind turbine.

How about using the excess energy to pump water into
an elevated tank or raising a weight? Then recover
the energy as electricity, and convert it to heat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_accumulator

This is a commercial item. These people make them:

http://www.tobul.com/

Just doing some calcs on that
1kWh = 3.6MJ
So I need to lift approx 36 tonnes through 10m to get that.
Seems like hard work given that 1 cu m of H2 is 90g which corresponds to
about 12MJ (assuming I've got my sums right)

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
Remote Viewing classes in London
Androcles...
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:14 pm
Guest
"hanson" <hanson at (no spam) quick.net> wrote in message
news:lQrWj.112$vE.111 at (no spam) trnddc03...
|
| "Dirk Bruere at NeoPax" <dirk.bruere at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
| news:68utcvF2v425pU4 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
| > Looking for an electrolysis machine so I can generate H2 for use in
| > cooking using excess electricity produced by a small scale wind turbine.
Quote:

| > Max likely power is 2kW.

| > Also looking for anyone who produces a simple method of storing a couple
| > of cu m of the gas (gasometer over water old style?)
| >
| hanson wrote:
| If you have 2 KW available why go thru these wasteful
| of steps of electrolysis and cooking with H2?

To store it for later when you are miles from home
and don't have it available. It may seem silly to carry
a bar of chocolate up Mt. Everest when you can eat
it before you start climbing, but people do.

| Why not store your Wind electricity in a bunch of Auto
| batteries (transform the V-output as needed) and cook
| your food with conventional electrical heating utensils.

Have you ever tried carrying 20 lbs of lead and acid up
Mt. Everest when a Mars bar will give you the same energy
at the top?

| It's cheaper & safer and all the items are commercially
| available off the shelf.

I'd still go for the Mars bar.
Thanks for the laughs!
...
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:25 pm
Guest
In sci.physics Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
hanson wrote:
"Dirk Bruere at NeoPax" <dirk.bruere at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:68utcvF2v425pU4 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
Looking for an electrolysis machine so I can generate H2 for use in
cooking using excess electricity produced by a small scale wind turbine.
Max likely power is 2kW.
Also looking for anyone who produces a simple method of storing a couple
of cu m of the gas (gasometer over water old style?)

hanson wrote:
If you have 2 KW available why go thru these wasteful
of steps of electrolysis and cooking with H2?
Why not store your Wind electricity in a bunch of Auto
batteries (transform the V-output as needed) and cook
your food with conventional electrical heating utensils.
It's cheaper & safer and all the items are commercially
available off the shelf.
hanson


Well, auto batteries are not designed for deep discharge.
Also I was hoping to keep the battery pack size down for a number of
reasons, not least cost. The perfect battery is a long way off, and lead
acid seems to be the only real choice until A123 start selling the stuff
I need a lot cheaper.

RV batteries handle deep discharge better than auto batteries.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax...
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 2:26 pm
Guest
Daddy Tadpole wrote:
Quote:

"Dirk Bruere at NeoPax" <dirk.bruere at (no spam) gmail.com> a écrit dans le message
de news:68v17gF2tolkfU1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
hanson wrote:
"Dirk Bruere at NeoPax" <dirk.bruere at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:68utcvF2v425pU4 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
Looking for an electrolysis machine so I can generate H2 for use in
cooking using excess electricity produced by a small scale wind
turbine. > Max likely power is 2kW.
Also looking for anyone who produces a simple method of storing a
couple of cu m of the gas (gasometer over water old style?)

hanson wrote:
If you have 2 KW available why go thru these wasteful
of steps of electrolysis and cooking with H2?
Why not store your Wind electricity in a bunch of Auto
batteries (transform the V-output as needed) and cook
your food with conventional electrical heating utensils.
It's cheaper & safer and all the items are commercially
available off the shelf.
hanson


Well, auto batteries are not designed for deep discharge.
Also I was hoping to keep the battery pack size down for a number of
reasons, not least cost. The perfect battery is a long way off, and
lead acid seems to be the only real choice until A123 start selling
the stuff I need a lot cheaper.

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
Remote Viewing classes in London

I would use the current to heat water, specially if you already have
water-type central heating and can add another tank.

Yet again, this may not be cost-effective - you'll have to buy heavy
cable and a special heating element for low voltage, or an up-convertor.

In France, they're trying to create a market (and bring prices down), by
buying at a good price the excess electricity from systems that have an
up convertor to feed the current into your mains supply. Currently, the
payback time is about 15 years for professionally-installed systems that
qualify for tax relief.

Don't let this stop you having some fun.

Regards

Thanks.
I won't be able to connect to any mains supply for anything.
And heating the water as a byproduct probably won't be so bad since I
can use the heat, at least in winter.

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
Remote Viewing classes in London
 
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