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Science Forum Index » Life Extension Forum » OTC anti-AGE question...
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| Thyro... |
 Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:58 am |
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Five years ago on this forum I asked:
"What's the best Anti-glycation agent available over-the-counter (if
any). "
Suggestions included:
Benfotiame
Carnosine
Chromium
Biotin
Magnesium
Aspirin (maybe)
And avoiding glycating foods and food preparation methods.
What's the thinking now? Any additions? New suggestions? |
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| christopher.a.dowling at (no spam) gmail.com... |
| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 1:11 pm |
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On May 8, 5:58 pm, Thyro <thyroacti... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Quote: Five years ago on this forum I asked:
Pyridoxamine?
Quote: "What's the best Anti-glycation agent available over-the-counter (if
any). "
Suggestions included:
Benfotiame
Carnosine
Chromium
Biotin
Magnesium
Aspirin (maybe)
And avoiding glycating foods and food preparation methods.
What's the thinking now? Any additions? New suggestions? |
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| christopher.a.dowling at (no spam) gmail.com... |
| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 1:16 pm |
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On May 8, 5:58 pm, Thyro <thyroacti... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Quote: Five years ago on this forum I asked:
"What's the best Anti-glycation agent available over-the-counter (if
any). "
Suggestions included:
Benfotiame
Carnosine
Chromium
Biotin
Magnesium
Aspirin (maybe)
And avoiding glycating foods and food preparation methods.
What's the thinking now? Any additions? New suggestions?
Lipoic acid? |
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| Olafur Pall Olafsson... |
| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:31 pm |
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On May 9, 5:33 pm, Bob Arnold <nos... at (no spam) aol.com> wrote:
Quote: You probably covered the best, but these are on my list:
Pyridoxamine
High-dose Thiamine
Carnosine
Benfotamine
DMAE
MSM
Arginine
Lysine
Lipoic Acid
Rutin
Quercetin
Inositol (http://pmid.us/12824944)
Aspirin
A few good ones not mentioned already are calcium pyruvate, histidine
and aminoguanidine. |
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| Bob Arnold... |
| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:33 pm |
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Guest
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You probably covered the best, but these are on my list:
Pyridoxamine
High-dose Thiamine
Carnosine
Benfotamine
DMAE
MSM
Arginine
Lysine
Lipoic Acid
Rutin
Quercetin
Inositol (http://pmid.us/12824944)
Aspirin
In article
<c59385fc-e030-49a6-8a6d-f03efa6530fb at (no spam) 24g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
"christopher.a.dowling at (no spam) gmail.com" <christopher.a.dowling at (no spam) gmail.com>
wrote:
Quote: On May 8, 5:58 pm, Thyro <thyroacti... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Five years ago on this forum I asked:
Pyridoxamine?
"What's the best Anti-glycation agent available over-the-counter (if
any). "
Suggestions included:
Benfotiame
Carnosine
Chromium
Biotin
Magnesium
Aspirin (maybe)
And avoiding glycating foods and food preparation methods.
What's the thinking now? Any additions? New suggestions? |
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| Back to top |
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| Olafur Pall Olafsson... |
| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 2:45 pm |
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On May 10, 12:21 am, Bob Arnold <nos... at (no spam) aol.com> wrote:
Quote: In article
6bfd7357-5cb5-4dba-88ac-f6d92f181... at (no spam) m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
Olafur Pall Olafsson <olafurp... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On May 9, 5:33 pm, Bob Arnold <nos... at (no spam) aol.com> wrote:
You probably covered the best, but these are on my list:
Pyridoxamine
High-dose Thiamine
Carnosine
Benfotamine
DMAE
MSM
Arginine
Lysine
Lipoic Acid
Rutin
Quercetin
Inositol (http://pmid.us/12824944)
Aspirin
A few good ones not mentioned already are calcium pyruvate, histidine
and aminoguanidine.
Is aminoguanidine otc?
No it's not. I was just mentioning good glycaton inhibitors that I
remembered off hand but forgot that the original poster was asking
specifically about glycation inhibitors that are available over the
counter.
Quote: Another one is beta-alanine, but it's less than carnosine or histidine.http://pmid.us/15234195- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text - |
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| Bob Arnold... |
| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 7:21 pm |
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Guest
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In article
<6bfd7357-5cb5-4dba-88ac-f6d92f181668 at (no spam) m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
Olafur Pall Olafsson <olafurpall at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote: On May 9, 5:33 pm, Bob Arnold <nos... at (no spam) aol.com> wrote:
You probably covered the best, but these are on my list:
Pyridoxamine
High-dose Thiamine
Carnosine
Benfotamine
DMAE
MSM
Arginine
Lysine
Lipoic Acid
Rutin
Quercetin
Inositol (http://pmid.us/12824944)
Aspirin
A few good ones not mentioned already are calcium pyruvate, histidine
and aminoguanidine.
Is aminoguanidine otc?
Another one is beta-alanine, but it's less than carnosine or histidine.
http://pmid.us/15234195 |
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| David... |
| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 5:34 am |
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I'd be hesitant to include many of the compounds listed so far as
"good anti-AGE agents" because most of them have (so far) only shown
anti-AGE effects in vitro, which is of questionable value at best, or
in high-dose animal studies (more valuable, but still not compared to
human studies).
A better question might be, "what are the best anti-AGE/anti-ALE
compounds available which have (in addition to in vitro/animal data)
some published *human* studies to back up their efficacy?"
Pyridoxamine, benfotiamine, and aminoguanidine would top my list.
Others? |
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| David... |
| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 11:29 am |
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Actually, come to think of it, aminoguanidine hasn't fared so well in
human clinical trials. (Am J Nephrol. 2004 Jan-Feb;24(1):32-40)
Scratch that one. |
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| christopher.a.dowling at (no spam) gmail.com... |
| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 11:52 am |
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Guest
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On May 10, 4:02 pm, Jefferson <Jeffer... at (no spam) comcast.net> wrote:
Quote: Olafur Pall Olafsson wrote:
On May 10, 12:21 am, Bob Arnold <nos... at (no spam) aol.com> wrote:
In article
6bfd7357-5cb5-4dba-88ac-f6d92f181... at (no spam) m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
Olafur Pall Olafsson <olafurp... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On May 9, 5:33 pm, Bob Arnold <nos... at (no spam) aol.com> wrote:
You probably covered the best, but these are on my list:
Pyridoxamine
High-dose Thiamine
Carnosine
Benfotamine
DMAE
MSM
Arginine
Lysine
Lipoic Acid
Rutin
Quercetin
Inositol (http://pmid.us/12824944)
Aspirin
A few good ones not mentioned already are calcium pyruvate, histidine
and aminoguanidine.
Is aminoguanidine otc?
No it's not. I was just mentioning good glycaton inhibitors that I
remembered off hand but forgot that the original poster was asking
specifically about glycation inhibitors that are available over the
counter.
Another one is beta-alanine, but it's less than carnosine or histidine.http://pmid.us/15234195-Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I was surprised that you did not list resveratrol. There have been
studies that relate resveratrol to AGE inhibition. It may be true that
the mega doses needed might be too expensive for many people.
Frank
The references to resveratrol and AGEs I've seen cite this study:
Resveratrol Inhibits AGEs-Induced Proliferation and Collagen Synthesis
Activity in Vascular Smooth Muscle Cells from Stroke-Prone
Spontaneously Hypertensive Rats
Kenichi Mizutania, Katsumi Ikedab and Yukio Yamoria
a Life Science, Environmental Conservation and Development, Graduate
School of Human and Environmental Studies, Kyoto University, Yosida,
Nihonmatu-cho, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto, 6068501, Japan
b Otsuka Department of International Preventive Nutritional Medicine,
Graduate School of Human and Environmental Studies, Kyoto University,
Yosida, Nihonmatu-cho, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto, 6068501, Japan
Received 15 June 2000.
Available online 27 March 2002.
But I've not found it claimed that resveratrol inhibits AGE formation.
References and further reading may be available for this article. To
view references and further reading you must purchase this article.
Abstract
Advanced glycation end-products (AGEs) of plasma proteins and/or
matrix proteins are candidate mediators for various vascular
complications such as atherosclerosis. We previously reported a
significantly larger accumulation of AGEs of the aorta in stroke-prone
spontaneously hypertensive rats (SHRSP) than in age-matched Wistar-
Kyoto rats (WKY). In this study, we examined the effects of AGEs on
vascular smooth muscle cells (VSMC) from SHRSP and WKY rats. We also
studied the in vitro effects of resveratrol (3,4$B!l(B,5-
trihydroxystilbene), a natural phytestrogen, on VSMC proliferation,
DNA synthesis, and collagen synthesis activity in SHRSP-VSMC. AGEs
accelerated the proliferation of SHRSP- or WKY-VSMC in a time- and
dose-dependent manner. VSMC from SHRSP were more sensitive to AGEs
than VSMC from normotensive WKY. AGEs also significantly increased DNA
synthesis and prolyl hydroxylase activity, a marker for collagen
synthesis, in SHRSP-VSMC. AGEs-induced increases in TGF-$B&B(B1 mRNA in
SHRSP-VSMC were significantly greater than in WKY-VSMC. Resveratrol
inhibited AGEs-stimulated proliferation, DNA synthesis, and prolyl
hydroxylase activity in SHRSP-VSMC in a dose-dependent manner. ICI
182780, a specific estrogen receptor antagonist, partly blocked the
inhibitory effects of resveratrol on AGEs-stimulated proliferation,
DNA synthesis, and prolyl hydroxylase activity. Resveratrol
significantly inhibited AGEs-induced TGF-$B&B(B1 mRNA increases in a dose-
dependent manner. Thus, resveratrol may confer protective effects on
the cardiovascular system by attenuating vascular remodeling and may
be clinically useful as a safer substitute for feminizing estrogens in
preventing cardiovascular disease.
Author Keywords: vascular smooth muscle cell; stroke-prone
spontaneously hypertensive rats; advanced glycosylation end-products,
phytestrogen
Biochemical and Biophysical Research Communications
Volume 274, Issue 1, 21 July 2000, Pages 61-67 |
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| Jefferson... |
| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 3:02 pm |
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Guest
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Olafur Pall Olafsson wrote:
Quote: On May 10, 12:21 am, Bob Arnold <nos... at (no spam) aol.com> wrote:
In article
6bfd7357-5cb5-4dba-88ac-f6d92f181... at (no spam) m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
Olafur Pall Olafsson <olafurp... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On May 9, 5:33 pm, Bob Arnold <nos... at (no spam) aol.com> wrote:
You probably covered the best, but these are on my list:
Pyridoxamine
High-dose Thiamine
Carnosine
Benfotamine
DMAE
MSM
Arginine
Lysine
Lipoic Acid
Rutin
Quercetin
Inositol (http://pmid.us/12824944)
Aspirin
A few good ones not mentioned already are calcium pyruvate, histidine
and aminoguanidine.
Is aminoguanidine otc?
No it's not. I was just mentioning good glycaton inhibitors that I
remembered off hand but forgot that the original poster was asking
specifically about glycation inhibitors that are available over the
counter.
Another one is beta-alanine, but it's less than carnosine or histidine.http://pmid.us/15234195- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I was surprised that you did not list resveratrol. There have been
studies that relate resveratrol to AGE inhibition. It may be true that
the mega doses needed might be too expensive for many people.
Frank |
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| Olafur Pall Olafsson... |
| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 2:50 pm |
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On May 10, 3:34 pm, David <david.spro... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Quote: I'd be hesitant to include many of the compounds listed so far as
"good anti-AGE agents" because most of them have (so far) only shown
anti-AGE effects in vitro, which is of questionable value at best, or
in high-dose animal studies (more valuable, but still not compared to
human studies).
I generally agree with you. Among those I mentioned aminoguanidine is
supported by human in vivo evidence. Pyruvate is not but it has been
shown to work well in vivo in rodents so it likely works to some
degree in humans. But this will depend largly on it's bioavailability
and there is evidence that it's bioavailability in humans isn't
particularly good. Histidine is not supported by human in vivo
evidence but it is a good antiglycative agent in vitro and being an
amino acid it is effectively absorbed in humans and some of it will be
taken up by tissues where it can work intracellularly, so despite lack
of direct in vivo evidence I think it is safe to say that histidine
works in humans, although how effective is hard to say without a human
in vivo study. I myself take 3g of histidine daily (1,5g twice daily).
3g a day of l-histidine has been shown to result in a modest increase
in plasma l-histidine concentration in healthy humans so it should
give me some antiglycative effects http://pmid.us/3925464 .
Quote: A better question might be, "what are the best anti-AGE/anti-ALE
compounds available which have (in addition to in vitro/animal data)
some published *human* studies to back up their efficacy?"
Pyridoxamine, benfotiamine, and aminoguanidine would top my list.
Others?
Pyridoxamine would top my list too and benfotiamine and aminoguanidine
would probably come second. As far as other compounds with published
human studies to back up their efficacy, any compound that has been
shown to reduce glucose concentrations could be on such a list
although the mechanism of glycation inhibition in such cases would be
indirect. Also there are compounds like metformin that can lower blood
glucose but also have glycation inhibiting properties that are
independent of their effect on blood glucose. But because metformin
also lowers blood glucose it is impossible to tell by current human in
vivo studies how much if any of it's benefits are derived from direct
inhibition of glycation as opposed to merely lowering of blood glucose. |
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| Olafur Pall Olafsson... |
| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 3:04 pm |
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On May 10, 9:29 pm, David <david.spro... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Quote: Actually, come to think of it, aminoguanidine hasn't fared so well in
human clinical trials. (Am J Nephrol. 2004 Jan-Feb;24(1):32-40)
Scratch that one.
Actually I think the results of this study are pretty impressive. Here
are some of the benefits reported in the abstract:
"Serum creatinine doubled in 26% (61/236) of the placebo-treated
patients and in 20% (91/454) of those who received pimagedine (p =
0.099). The estimated glomerular filtration rate decreased more slowly
in the pimagedine-treated patients with a 36-month decrease from
baseline of 6.26 ml/min/1.73 m(2) as compared with 9.80 ml/min/1.73
m(2) in the placebo-treated patients (p = 0.05), and pimagedine
reduced the 24-hour total urinary proteinuria. (The mean reduction
from baseline at month 36 was 732 mg/24 h at the low dose and 329 mg/
24 h at the high dose as compared with 35 mg/24 h in the placebo
group; p </= 0.001.) Fewer pimagedine-treated patients with baseline
and end point evaluations (31/324; 10%) as compared with those
receiving placebo (16%; 28/179) experienced a three-step or greater
progression of the retinopathy (Early Treatment of Diabetic
Retinopathy Study) score (p = 0.030)."
On the negative three patients receiving high-dose aminoguanidine but
none receiving low-dose treatment developed glomerulonephritis. But 3
patients out of 330 is not much, this could just be a coincidence and
if anything it suggests that the lower dose may be more safe and
beneficial. |
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| Olafur Pall Olafsson... |
| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 3:06 pm |
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Guest
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On May 10, 8:02 pm, Jefferson <Jeffer... at (no spam) comcast.net> wrote:
Quote: Olafur Pall Olafsson wrote:
On May 10, 12:21 am, Bob Arnold <nos... at (no spam) aol.com> wrote:
In article
6bfd7357-5cb5-4dba-88ac-f6d92f181... at (no spam) m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
Olafur Pall Olafsson <olafurp... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On May 9, 5:33 pm, Bob Arnold <nos... at (no spam) aol.com> wrote:
You probably covered the best, but these are on my list:
Pyridoxamine
High-dose Thiamine
Carnosine
Benfotamine
DMAE
MSM
Arginine
Lysine
Lipoic Acid
Rutin
Quercetin
Inositol (http://pmid.us/12824944)
Aspirin
A few good ones not mentioned already are calcium pyruvate, histidine
and aminoguanidine.
Is aminoguanidine otc?
No it's not. I was just mentioning good glycaton inhibitors that I
remembered off hand but forgot that the original poster was asking
specifically about glycation inhibitors that are available over the
counter.
Another one is beta-alanine, but it's less than carnosine or histidine.http://pmid.us/15234195-Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I was surprised that you did not list resveratrol. There have been
studies that relate resveratrol to AGE inhibition. It may be true that
the mega doses needed might be too expensive for many people.
Frank
While resveratrol may be able to prevent some of the harmful effect of
AGEs I have not seen any study that indicates it can inhibit their
formation. I doubt such a study exists, and if it does it is most
likely an in vitro study, in which case the results would not be
applicable to humans based on the low bioavailability of resveratrol. |
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| Olafur Pall Olafsson... |
| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 3:24 pm |
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Guest
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On May 10, 9:52 pm, "christopher.a.dowl... at (no spam) gmail.com"
<christopher.a.dowl... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Quote: On May 10, 4:02 pm, Jefferson <Jeffer... at (no spam) comcast.net> wrote:
<snip>
Quote: I was surprised that you did not list resveratrol. There have been
studies that relate resveratrol to AGE inhibition. It may be true that
the mega doses needed might be too expensive for many people.
Frank
The references to resveratrol and AGEs I've seen cite this study:
Resveratrol Inhibits AGEs-Induced Proliferation and Collagen Synthesis
Activity in Vascular Smooth Muscle Cells from Stroke-Prone
Spontaneously Hypertensive Rats
Kenichi Mizutania, Katsumi Ikedab and Yukio Yamoria
a Life Science, Environmental Conservation and Development, Graduate
School of Human and Environmental Studies, Kyoto University, Yosida,
Nihonmatu-cho, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto, 6068501, Japan
b Otsuka Department of International Preventive Nutritional Medicine,
Graduate School of Human and Environmental Studies, Kyoto University,
Yosida, Nihonmatu-cho, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto, 6068501, Japan
Received 15 June 2000.
Available online 27 March 2002.
But I've not found it claimed that resveratrol inhibits AGE formation.
Exactly, and neither have I. This study only shows that resveratrol
inhibits some of the harmful effects of AGEs in vitro. There is no
indication in the study that resveratrol may actually prevent the
formation of AGEs in the first place.
Olafur
Quote: References and further reading may be available for this article. To
view references and further reading you must purchase this article.
Abstract
Advanced glycation end-products (AGEs) of plasma proteins and/or
matrix proteins are candidate mediators for various vascular
complications such as atherosclerosis. We previously reported a
significantly larger accumulation of AGEs of the aorta in stroke-prone
spontaneously hypertensive rats (SHRSP) than in age-matched Wistar-
Kyoto rats (WKY). In this study, we examined the effects of AGEs on
vascular smooth muscle cells (VSMC) from SHRSP and WKY rats. We also
studied the in vitro effects of resveratrol (3,4$B!l(B,5-
trihydroxystilbene), a natural phytestrogen, on VSMC proliferation,
DNA synthesis, and collagen synthesis activity in SHRSP-VSMC. AGEs
accelerated the proliferation of SHRSP- or WKY-VSMC in a time- and
dose-dependent manner. VSMC from SHRSP were more sensitive to AGEs
than VSMC from normotensive WKY. AGEs also significantly increased DNA
synthesis and prolyl hydroxylase activity, a marker for collagen
synthesis, in SHRSP-VSMC. AGEs-induced increases in TGF-$B&B(B1 mRNA in
SHRSP-VSMC were significantly greater than in WKY-VSMC. Resveratrol
inhibited AGEs-stimulated proliferation, DNA synthesis, and prolyl
hydroxylase activity in SHRSP-VSMC in a dose-dependent manner. ICI
182780, a specific estrogen receptor antagonist, partly blocked the
inhibitory effects of resveratrol on AGEs-stimulated proliferation,
DNA synthesis, and prolyl hydroxylase activity. Resveratrol
significantly inhibited AGEs-induced TGF-$B&B(B1 mRNA increases in a dose-
dependent manner. Thus, resveratrol may confer protective effects on
the cardiovascular system by attenuating vascular remodeling and may
be clinically useful as a safer substitute for feminizing estrogens in
preventing cardiovascular disease.
Author Keywords: vascular smooth muscle cell; stroke-prone
spontaneously hypertensive rats; advanced glycosylation end-products,
phytestrogen
Biochemical and Biophysical Research Communications
Volume 274, Issue 1, 21 July 2000, Pages 61-67 |
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