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D from BC
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 9:25 pm
Guest
It's patent number 6343021
Or see:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=wvQKAAAAEBAJ&dq=6343021
I found this patent a nice read. Not too 'patentese'.

I still consider myself a newbie at smps design but doesn't this look
like a 'neat' looking topology?

Claims:
Neat unity power factor.
Simpler circuitry
Substantially lower cost
Higher efficiency
Longer operation life
Truly integrated magnetics
Highest energy density
Isolated output
Steps or steps down
No RHP zero
No DC through magnetics (If I read right)
No large electrolytics on input or output
Minimizes EMI through use of sinusoidal waveforms
+ other features

Gee...it's like the dream supply.. :P

Driving the mosfet in the bridge looks like a pita.
I believe that's going to need a floating power supply.

I'm all dazzled by this design.
I want to pop this sucker into LTspice and take it for a test drive.

Comments on this design..??

Or any bad jokes...

Yup... I grew up with the Beatles..
..
..
..
..
..
..
.....and the cockroaches, ants and termites... It was a bug infested
house. :P


D from BC
British Columbia
Canada
Bob Eld
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 9:57 pm
Guest
"D from BC" <myrealaddress@comic.com> wrote in message
news:a1hn14l19knmjn0jmcgrtngff63bp59a69@4ax.com...
Quote:
It's patent number 6343021
Or see:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=wvQKAAAAEBAJ&dq=6343021
I found this patent a nice read. Not too 'patentese'.

I still consider myself a newbie at smps design but doesn't this look
like a 'neat' looking topology?

Claims:
Neat unity power factor.
Simpler circuitry
Substantially lower cost
Higher efficiency
Longer operation life
Truly integrated magnetics
Highest energy density
Isolated output
Steps or steps down
No RHP zero
No DC through magnetics (If I read right)
No large electrolytics on input or output
Minimizes EMI through use of sinusoidal waveforms
+ other features

Gee...it's like the dream supply.. :P

Driving the mosfet in the bridge looks like a pita.
I believe that's going to need a floating power supply.

I'm all dazzled by this design.
I want to pop this sucker into LTspice and take it for a test drive.

Comments on this design..??

Or any bad jokes...

Yup... I grew up with the Beatles..
.
.
.
.
.
.
....and the cockroaches, ants and termites... It was a bug infested
house. :P


D from BC
British Columbia
Canada

It's a resonant converter These have been around for some time but his
transformer configuration seems unique. I'm not sure if this design brings
much to the table or not. I'd have to see a specific design example, look
into the transformer specifics, circulating currents, capacitor specs,
regulation, etc. and compare it with a more traditional design in price and
performance.

By way of comparison he has included a Cuk converter in the prior art
section. If you read their patents and papers, the Cuk is the best thing
since sex, yet they were never popular. The peculiar, hard to make magnetics
and other engineering nastys make them production nightmares. The patent
circuits have some of the same look to them. So, who knows?
Terry Given
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:40 pm
Guest
Bob Eld wrote:
Quote:
"D from BC" <myrealaddress@comic.com> wrote in message
news:a1hn14l19knmjn0jmcgrtngff63bp59a69@4ax.com...

It's patent number 6343021
Or see:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=wvQKAAAAEBAJ&dq=6343021
I found this patent a nice read. Not too 'patentese'.

I still consider myself a newbie at smps design but doesn't this look
like a 'neat' looking topology?

Claims:
Neat unity power factor.
Simpler circuitry
Substantially lower cost
Higher efficiency
Longer operation life
Truly integrated magnetics
Highest energy density
Isolated output
Steps or steps down
No RHP zero
No DC through magnetics (If I read right)
No large electrolytics on input or output
Minimizes EMI through use of sinusoidal waveforms
+ other features

Gee...it's like the dream supply.. :P

Driving the mosfet in the bridge looks like a pita.
I believe that's going to need a floating power supply.

I'm all dazzled by this design.
I want to pop this sucker into LTspice and take it for a test drive.

Comments on this design..??

Or any bad jokes...

Yup... I grew up with the Beatles..
.
.
.
.
.
.
....and the cockroaches, ants and termites... It was a bug infested
house. :P


D from BC
British Columbia
Canada


It's a resonant converter These have been around for some time but his
transformer configuration seems unique. I'm not sure if this design brings
much to the table or not. I'd have to see a specific design example, look
into the transformer specifics, circulating currents, capacitor specs,
regulation, etc. and compare it with a more traditional design in price and
performance.

By way of comparison he has included a Cuk converter in the prior art
section. If you read their patents and papers, the Cuk is the best thing
since sex, yet they were never popular. The peculiar, hard to make magnetics
and other engineering nastys make them production nightmares. The patent
circuits have some of the same look to them. So, who knows?


It looks *exactly* like one of Ed Herberts symmetric converters, but
with an AC switch.

Cheers
Terry
D from BC
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:43 pm
Guest
On Fri, 2 May 2008 19:57:53 -0700, "Bob Eld" <nsmontassoc@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Quote:

"D from BC" <myrealaddress@comic.com> wrote in message
news:a1hn14l19knmjn0jmcgrtngff63bp59a69@4ax.com...
It's patent number 6343021
Or see:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=wvQKAAAAEBAJ&dq=6343021
I found this patent a nice read. Not too 'patentese'.

I still consider myself a newbie at smps design but doesn't this look
like a 'neat' looking topology?

Claims:
Neat unity power factor.
Simpler circuitry
Substantially lower cost
Higher efficiency
Longer operation life
Truly integrated magnetics
Highest energy density
Isolated output
Steps or steps down
No RHP zero
No DC through magnetics (If I read right)
No large electrolytics on input or output
Minimizes EMI through use of sinusoidal waveforms
+ other features

Gee...it's like the dream supply.. :P

Driving the mosfet in the bridge looks like a pita.
I believe that's going to need a floating power supply.

I'm all dazzled by this design.
I want to pop this sucker into LTspice and take it for a test drive.

Comments on this design..??

Or any bad jokes...

Yup... I grew up with the Beatles..
.
.
.
.
.
.
....and the cockroaches, ants and termites... It was a bug infested
house. :P


D from BC
British Columbia
Canada

It's a resonant converter These have been around for some time but his
transformer configuration seems unique. I'm not sure if this design brings
much to the table or not. I'd have to see a specific design example, look
into the transformer specifics, circulating currents, capacitor specs,
regulation, etc. and compare it with a more traditional design in price and
performance.

By way of comparison he has included a Cuk converter in the prior art
section. If you read their patents and papers, the Cuk is the best thing
since sex, yet they were never popular. The peculiar, hard to make magnetics
and other engineering nastys make them production nightmares. The patent
circuits have some of the same look to them. So, who knows?


Yup.. somehow the classic Cuk has taken the back seat. (Based on the
small amount of research I've done.)
Maybe everybody is just dodging the patents or the design is just too
bloody complicated. Dunno...
Over and over again I see the classic Cuk config...with no feedback
control.
It's like: 'This is a Cuk...good luck stabilizing it!'

I've made some working classic Cuk supplies and yup the magnetics are
a pita.
For example, the classic non-isolated non-resonant Cuk design may need
magnetics with a high core saturation due to unipolar operation (1st
quadrant of BH plot).

However, the above patent (6343021) claims no RHP zero and no
unipolar operation of the magnetics.
It's like a super Cuk design..


D from BC
British Columbia
Canada
MooseFET...
Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 4:22 pm
Guest
On May 5, 10:51 am, legg <l... at (no spam) nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
Quote:
On Mon, 5 May 2008 07:00:51 -0700 (PDT), MooseFET <kensm... at (no spam) rahul.net
wrote:

On May 2, 7:25 pm, D from BC <myrealaddr... at (no spam) comic.com> wrote:
It's patent number 6343021
Or see:http://www.google.com/patents?id=wvQKAAAAEBAJ&dq=6343021

It is a Cuk converter topology. The capacitors are going to be an
interesting issue in the real design.

Although the primary switch and coupling are arranged like a Cuk and
have the same phase relationship in isolation transformer and coupling
inductor (regardless of which serves what function), it can't perform
the same conversion cycles: C3 is not in series with the rectifier and
load; it can only be sized for a resonant or quasiresonant function
without actually inhibiting power transfer.

Yes, you are right. I have my doubts about the usefulness of the
circuit now that I look more closly.

C2 is nearly across the incoming mains voltage from an AC point of
view. and the same with C3.

The author describes it as a resonant converter which could be true is
1A and 1C had differing numbers of turns.
D from BC...
Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 10:09 pm
Guest
On Mon, 5 May 2008 07:00:51 -0700 (PDT), MooseFET <kensmith at (no spam) rahul.net>
wrote:

Quote:
On May 2, 7:25 pm, D from BC <myrealaddr... at (no spam) comic.com> wrote:
It's patent number 6343021
Or see:http://www.google.com/patents?id=wvQKAAAAEBAJ&dq=6343021

It is a Cuk converter topology. The capacitors are going to be an
interesting issue in the real design.

You can drive the MOSFETs through gate drive transformers. If it is a
narrow range supply just hooking the tranformer to the gate is good
enough.

For wide range:

D1
---->!---- Q2
A ! ! !!------
-----+-- -+---!!
!!( s! ! !d !!--+---
!!( ------- !
!!( Q1 ------- !
!!( B ! !
-----------+------------


Q2 is the big N MOSFET or IGBT

Q1 is a small N MOSFET. When B goes positive WRT to A, it turns on
and discharges the gate of Q2

D1 is a schottky. It prevents current in the substrate diode of Q1 so
you don't have recovery time issues with it.



Neato..
That's less parts than an isolated supply (linear or smps[1]) + a
digital isolator (opto or other) + a mosfet driver.

I'm not sure what you mean by narrow and wide range.
Do you mean small dV or large dV upon the gate Q2?

I suppose a mosfet driver can be used to drive the transformer
primary.

[1]Kinda goofy to make a smps to power an smps.

Reminds of a loop I once got into..
I wanted to make a good voltage source.
I figured I could make one with a good current source..
But, to make a good current source I needed a good voltage source.. :P


D from BC
British Columbia
Canada
D from BC...
Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 10:23 pm
Guest
On Mon, 05 May 2008 13:51:00 -0400, legg <legg at (no spam) nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

Quote:
On Mon, 5 May 2008 07:00:51 -0700 (PDT), MooseFET <kensmith at (no spam) rahul.net
wrote:

On May 2, 7:25 pm, D from BC <myrealaddr... at (no spam) comic.com> wrote:
It's patent number 6343021
Or see:http://www.google.com/patents?id=wvQKAAAAEBAJ&dq=6343021

It is a Cuk converter topology. The capacitors are going to be an
interesting issue in the real design.

Although the primary switch and coupling are arranged like a Cuk and
have the same phase relationship in isolation transformer and coupling
inductor (regardless of which serves what function), it can't perform
the same conversion cycles: C3 is not in series with the rectifier and
load; it can only be sized for a resonant or quasiresonant function
without actually inhibiting power transfer.

In the Cuk, the high-frequency voltage across the coupling capacitors
is not intended to reverse, while passing full load current. In fact
it maintains an average value equal to the sourc/output voltage
respectively (or their difference, in the non-isolated case).

Converters that impress the fw bridge rectification function on the
actual HF switch, in such a crude manner, surrender the basic
efficiency provided by low frequency rectifiers or SCRs (and in this
case the Cuk single rectifier output efficiency also), and impose low
frequency filtering requirements on the low voltage load filter.

You can do a lot of silly things at low power levels, but there's no
reason for them to pay, unless part REDUCTION results, or part stress
is signifigantly reduced.

RL

Ahh..If I understand..
The high frequency switching in the bridge
e (with the power mosfet) will make those diodes more toasty compared
to low f rectifying of the line as traditionally done with offline
converters..


D from BC
British Columbia
Canada
 
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