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Science Forum Index » Energy Forum » Desert solar energy can supply all world energy needs
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| habshi |
 Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 6:15 pm |
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What about having just air in the troughs where the solar rays
are concentrated ? The expanding air would by pushed into a bigger
tube via a one way valve where it would be joined by others and so on
, until the final tube open at its distal end pushes a windmill?
So when the wind doesnt blow , the sun shines and creates
energy? Far better than having water or oil in the troughs which would
just corrode.
excerpt
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,550544-2,00.html
Every year, 630,000 terawatt hours in the form of solar energy
falls unused on the deserts of the so-called MENA states of the Middle
East and North Africa.
In contrast, Europe consumes just 4,000 terawatt hours of energy a
year -- a mere 0.6 percent of the unused solar energy falling in the
desert.
Powering Europe from the Desert
Europe needs a lot of electricity, but gets little sun. The MENA
countries, on the other hand, get a lot of sun, but consume little
electricity. So, the solution is simple: The south produces
electricity for the north. But how would the enormous energy transfer
work? And how do you turn desert sun into electricity?
It's actually relatively easy. Desertec is low-tech -- no expensive
nuclear fusion reactors, no CO2-emitting coal power plants, no
ultra-thin solar cells. The principle behind it is familiar to every
child who has ever burnt a hole in a sheet of paper with a magnifying
glass. Curved mirrors known as "parabolic trough collectors" collect
sunlight. The energy is used to heat water, generating steam which
then drives turbines and generates electricity. That, in a nutshell,
is how a solar thermal power plant works.
Energy can be harnessed even at night: Excess heat produced during the
day can be stored for several hours in tanks of molten salt. This way
the turbines can produce electricity even when the sun is not shining.
Should the Sahara, therefore, be completely covered with mirrors? No,
says Müller-Steinhagen, producing a picture by way of an answer. It
shows a huge desert in which are drawn three red squares. One square,
roughly the size of Austria, is labelled "world." "If this area was
covered in parabolic trough power plants, enough energy would be
produced to satisfy world demand," he says.
A second square, just a fourth of the size of the first one, is
labelled "EU 25," in a reference to the 25 member states the European
Union had before Bulgaria and Romania joined in 2007. This area could
produce enough solar energy to free Europe from dependence on oil, gas
and coal. The third area is labelled "D," for Germany. It is merely a
small dot.
A Win-Win Situation
Under the plan, the sun-rich states of North Africa and the Middle
East would build mirror power plants in the desert and generate
electricity. As a side benefit, they could use residual heat to power
seawater desalination plants, which would provide drinking water in
large quantities for the arid countries. At the same time they would
obtain a valuable export product: environmentally friendly
electricity.
"The MENA countries are in a three-way win situation," says
Müller-Steinhagen. But Europe also wins: it frees itself from its
dependence (more...) on Russian gas, rising oil prices, radioactive
waste and CO2-spewing coal power plants.
For countries such as Libya, Morocco, Algeria, Sudan and especially
Middle Eastern states, the solar power business could be the start of
a truly sunny future. It could create jobs and build up a sustainable
energy industry, which would bring money into these countries and
enable investment in infrastructure.
In fact, Desertec is no futuristic vision -- the technology already
exists and is tried and tested. Since the mid 1980s, solar thermal
power plants have been operating trouble-free in the US states of
California and Nevada. More plants are currently being built in
southern Spain. And building work has started on solar thermal power
plants in Algeria, Morocco and the United Arab Emirates.
Müller-Steinhagen has calculated what the energy switch would cost: To
generate 15 percent of Europe's electricity demand, around €400
billion ($623 billion) would be needed by 2050 to pay for the
construction of solar thermal power plants. The power plants would
cost €350 billion, while €50 billion would have to be spent on an
electricity grid network to transport electricity from North Africa to
Europe.
This would require a network of high-voltage direct current
transmission lines -- also a technology which exists and is tried and
tested. It is the only way to transport electricity for thousands of
kilometers with relatively little energy loss. |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:15 pm |
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In sci.physics habshi <habshi@anony.com> wrote:
Quote: What about having just air in the troughs where the solar rays
are concentrated ? The expanding air would by pushed into a bigger
tube via a one way valve where it would be joined by others and so on
, until the final tube open at its distal end pushes a windmill?
What about it?
It is a stupid, ignorant, unworkable idea.
This hasn't changed since the last time you proposed it.
It was idiotic then and it is idiotic now.
You are, and always will be, an idiot.
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
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| Eeyore |
| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:50 pm |
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jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
Quote: In sci.physics habshi <habshi@anony.com> wrote:
What about having just air in the troughs where the solar rays
are concentrated ? The expanding air would by pushed into a bigger
tube via a one way valve where it would be joined by others and so on
, until the final tube open at its distal end pushes a windmill?
What about it?
It is a stupid, ignorant, unworkable idea.
This hasn't changed since the last time you proposed it.
It was idiotic then and it is idiotic now.
You are, and always will be, an idiot.
No surprise there ! habshi talks the most astonishing nonsense around.
Graham |
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| habshi |
| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 6:52 pm |
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Dont mock Jim, the Stirling heat engine does use solar heated
air to generate electricity. So small pipes heated by concentrated
solar rays , the air moves into lower pressure larger pipes etcc. till
the final pipe forces wind on to the windmill blades. Of course you
could have it as a vertical cylinder under the windmill so that the
contraption generates energy even when there is no wind but lot of
sun,.
excerpt
Westborough -
A local man is taking green living to the roof.
Andrew Koenisberg recently installed at his 3 Smith St. home a 5
kilowatt-hour solar powered energy system, one of the largest of its
kind and a first among Westborough residents.
When Koenisberger’s father passed away 18 months ago, he left him with
an inheritance and an important decision about how to use that money.
“I thought it was kind of the patriotic thing to do,” Koenisberg said.
“Every kilowatt of electricity I’m using instead of importing coal or
burning oil, I think is going to help this country.”
Ever since he flipped the switch on his new system last month, his
electrical meter has been running backwards. Koenisberg’s home is
almost like a power utility itself now, generating about 8 kilowatts
per day back to National Grid’s power grid.
“Today it reads 806 kilowatt hours,” Koenisberg said. “That means that
we’ve sold about 50 kilowatt-hours of electricity back to the grid.”
Because of the amount of kilowatt-hours Koenisberg’s system has given
back, he’ll receive a credit on his next electrical bill.
On a sunny day, the system generates between 30-35 kilowatts of
electricity, of which Koenisberg said he only uses about 24 kilowatts
per day on average. Coupled with the credits he’ll receive, that
efficiency is already paying for the system’s initial cost, he said.
After originally thinking it would take between 15 to 20 years to pay
off system and installation costs, Koenisberg now figures he will have
made the $28,000 investment back by 2017. The cost of the system was
also offset substantially because of a rebate from the Mass.
Technology Council, which sent him $9,360 for the purchase.
Since the installation, Koenisberg’s past energy costs of $1,400 per
year have dropped to a mere $150.
The system is much more complex than a rooftop adornment. The solar
panels on Koenisberg’s roof generate a DC current, and through a
converter installed in the basement, the energy is then converted to
AC current, which goes into their household electrical system through
their breaker panel.
“Anything we do not use goes out from our house and into National
Grid’s power system which runs into the community,” Koenisberg said.
While the general public is feeling the weight of energy these days,
Koenisberg realizes that not everyone can afford to install such an
energy saving system to their own home. But he has a different way to
look at the investment.
“If I stuck that $28,000 in a CD earning 3 to 4 percent interest, I’ll
be getting a better return on my investment with this instead,”
Koenisberg said.
Thanks to the system that’s generating electricity 24 hours a day,
seven days a week, Koeninsberg expects to never be without energy,
even in the face of a power failure by the town’s power grid. |
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| habshi |
| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 6:58 pm |
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$5b a year is an amazing amount for a single company to invest
for five years. Its worth watchin the Bollywood movie 'Guru' to see
the rise of this family which will soon be the richest in the world
excerpt
Reliance Industries Ltd (RIL), India's biggest listed firm,
plans an investment of $25 billion over the next five years in solar
energy acquisitions and greenfield projects for photovoltaic cells.
Contrary to popular belief, Reliance's recent investment in
semiconductor fabrication plants is not for computer chips but mainly
for solar panels.
RIL has submitted the proposal for setting up two units with a total
investment of Rs 30,000 crore. ($7b)
One unit will be for manufacture of semiconductor wafer fab with
assembly, test, mark and packaging facility at an investment of Rs
18,000 crore. RIL is in talks with states of Maharastra, Andhra
Pradesh and Haryana to set up a unit.
Another solar project will be located in Jamnagar with an investment
of about Rs11,000 crore.
Reliance is already experimenting with a pilot project in Maharashtra
where it is electrifying 84 villages with solar power.
Sunlight may be free but producing solar energy is an expensive
business with a unit cost at Rs 12-15, which is why RIL has sought a
subsidy of Rs 3,394.5 crore for the semiconductor fab unit and Rs
2,326.2 crore for the solar project.
At the current pace of 20 per cent annual growth, experts expect
India’s solar sector to emerge as the fourth largest generator of
solar energy after Germany, Japan and China in the coming years. |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 7:55 pm |
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In sci.physics habshi <habshi@anony.com> wrote:
Quote: Dont mock Jim, the Stirling heat engine does use solar heated
air to generate electricity. So small pipes heated by concentrated
solar rays , the air moves into lower pressure larger pipes etcc. till
the final pipe forces wind on to the windmill blades. Of course you
could have it as a vertical cylinder under the windmill so that the
contraption generates energy even when there is no wind but lot of
sun,.
Childish, comic book, babble.
You are an idiot
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
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| Uncle Al |
| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 3:40 pm |
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| habshi... |
| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 8:28 pm |
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Guest
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The payback time may be less than 11 years if oil and gas
prices continue to escalate. Really the house value goes up by more
than the price of the panels anyway so its a win win situation.
Also the old panels should be easy to recycle and so the next
generation would be cheaper to make. |
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| ... |
| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 9:15 pm |
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Guest
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In sci.physics habshi <habshi at (no spam) anony.com> wrote:
Quote: The payback time may be less than 11 years if oil and gas
prices continue to escalate. Really the house value goes up by more
than the price of the panels anyway so its a win win situation.
Also the old panels should be easy to recycle and so the next
generation would be cheaper to make.
Oil and gas have little to nothing to do with electricity in North
America.
All home additions add less value than the cost of the addition.
The disposal cost of old solar panels has nothing to do with the
cost of making new ones.
You are, as always, a babbling idiot.
--
Jim Pennino
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