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Science Forum Index » Engineering - Joining (Welding) Forum » Ground rod question
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| SteveB |
 Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 2:45 am |
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Today, a friend called me who was doing a project. They had a copper coated
steel rod about 5/8" dia. that was to be used as a ground rod for
electrical. They had no means of bending it, as it had to make a couple of
three doglegs to get around concrete. I told him that heating it would melt
the copper, and did not know if the inspector would pass it with the copper
gone. He said that was what the inspector told him to do. We'll see. If
it works, okay, if it doesn't, I'll set up a jig and bend it cold.
Now to the point. As I heated the copper, I noticed a beautiful color
change. Like peacock colors. Would it be possible to dissolve copper into
a solution, possibly using acid or electrolysis, then have the copper be
deposited on metal sheeting so that it could be heated again to get the
iridescent hues?
I've read a lot about electrolytic removal of rust, and it seems pretty
straightforward. This would be (?) a two step process. I'm going to Google
up on it. Anyone ever try it?
Steve
--
"...the man who really counts in the world is the doer, not the mere
critic-the man who actually does the work, even if roughly and imperfectly,
not the man who only talks or writes about how it ought to be done."
Theodore Roosevelt 1891 |
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| Vaughn Simon |
| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 5:20 am |
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"SteveB" <toquerville,utah@zionvistas> wrote in message
news:h02oe5-grb.ln1@news.infowest.com...
Quote: Today, a friend called me who was doing a project. They had a copper coated
steel rod about 5/8" dia. that was to be used as a ground rod for electrical.
They had no means of bending it, as it had to make a couple of three doglegs
to get around concrete.
Usually done right on the job with a 1/2" "hickey bender". That is a manual
bender for 1/2" rigid conduit. Most construction electricians will have one on
their truck somewhere.
Vaughn |
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| Jim |
| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:02 am |
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Quote: I've read a lot about electrolytic removal of rust, and it seems pretty
straightforward. This would be (?) a two step process. I'm going to
Google up on it. Anyone ever try it?
Steve
You would need a Solution 20-25% of Hydrofluoric acid (Nasty Stuff) 50%
Nitric acid, and 20-40 Volt, 1 Amp power supply.
Depending on time and current, you can get a nice copper coating on any
surface.
Google Hydrofluoric acid before you even try it. Not something you want to
get on any part of your body.
As Simon says, go with cold forming.
Jim |
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| Grant Erwin |
| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:46 am |
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SteveB wrote:
Quote: Today, a friend called me who was doing a project. They had a copper coated
steel rod about 5/8" dia. that was to be used as a ground rod for
electrical. They had no means of bending it, as it had to make a couple of
three doglegs to get around concrete. I told him that heating it would melt
the copper, and did not know if the inspector would pass it with the copper
gone. He said that was what the inspector told him to do. We'll see. If
it works, okay, if it doesn't, I'll set up a jig and bend it cold.
Now to the point. As I heated the copper, I noticed a beautiful color
change. Like peacock colors. Would it be possible to dissolve copper into
a solution, possibly using acid or electrolysis, then have the copper be
deposited on metal sheeting so that it could be heated again to get the
iridescent hues?
I've read a lot about electrolytic removal of rust, and it seems pretty
straightforward. This would be (?) a two step process. I'm going to Google
up on it. Anyone ever try it?
Steve
It is trivial to get a strike coating of copper on steel. Just put the steel
into some copper sulfate (sulphate if you're British).
Grant |
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| Jim Elbrecht |
| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:53 am |
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On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 23:45:54 -0800, "SteveB"
<toquerville,utah@zionvistas> wrote:
-snip-
Quote: Now to the point. As I heated the copper, I noticed a beautiful color
change. Like peacock colors. Would it be possible to dissolve copper into
a solution, possibly using acid or electrolysis, then have the copper be
deposited on metal sheeting so that it could be heated again to get the
iridescent hues?
-snip-
Problem is the colors aren't permanent. Here's a thread on heat
painting copper- [and attempts at preserving the colors]
http://www.metalartistforum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=124
And here's a Copper artist's site-
http://coppercolorist.com/
Beautiful stuff-
Jim |
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| Derek |
| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 12:42 pm |
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SteveB wrote:
Quote: Today, a friend called me who was doing a project. They had a copper coated
steel rod about 5/8" dia. that was to be used as a ground rod for
electrical. They had no means of bending it, as it had to make a couple of
three doglegs to get around concrete. I told him that heating it would melt
the copper, and did not know if the inspector would pass it with the copper
gone. He said that was what the inspector told him to do. We'll see. If
it works, okay, if it doesn't, I'll set up a jig and bend it cold.
Now to the point. As I heated the copper, I noticed a beautiful color
change. Like peacock colors. Would it be possible to dissolve copper into
a solution, possibly using acid or electrolysis, then have the copper be
deposited on metal sheeting so that it could be heated again to get the
iridescent hues?
I've read a lot about electrolytic removal of rust, and it seems pretty
straightforward. This would be (?) a two step process. I'm going to Google
up on it. Anyone ever try it?
Steve
Rather than attempting the improbable you can get the iridescence by
passivating the copper deposited on your material.This involves a short
dip in a dilute chromic solution Potassium Dichromate is a good
candidate and you can get a similar effect on bright zinc it is a
process used to reduce the reactivity of the surface layer of
electroplated materials. If my memory serves we used to
derust electrolitically using a sodium hydroxide solution with
a small quantity of surfactant to wet the job. That was a long
time ago approx 30 years so the details are not that fresh when
I was a lab technician at GKN Hilton and Tuck Electroplating
Division in the UK
Derek |
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| Leo Lichtman |
| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 12:46 pm |
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Why do you need copper plating? The electrical conduction through a steel
rod is plenty for a ground, and a thin layer of copper on the surface isn;t
going to make a significant difference.
Is it for preventing rust? Galvanizing would probably be better. I say
just bend it. If you need heat, then you will damage the copper in those
areas, but the thing will still make a usable ground which should last for
years. You could paint the damaged parts with some zinc primer, or smear on
some roofing cement. |
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| Martin H. Eastburn |
| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:31 pm |
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Copper in solution can be super saturated and dip deposited. That is normally
a thin layer at best. Plating is the best way - take a copper
pipe/sheet/wire.... and the sheet you want as the other electrode.
There are reasonable web sites that show electro-plating and offer chemicals
to aid and do the whole job.
Often large crow feet are used with the object suspended above the foot.
Martin
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/
SteveB wrote:
Quote: Today, a friend called me who was doing a project. They had a copper coated
steel rod about 5/8" dia. that was to be used as a ground rod for
electrical. They had no means of bending it, as it had to make a couple of
three doglegs to get around concrete. I told him that heating it would melt
the copper, and did not know if the inspector would pass it with the copper
gone. He said that was what the inspector told him to do. We'll see. If
it works, okay, if it doesn't, I'll set up a jig and bend it cold.
Now to the point. As I heated the copper, I noticed a beautiful color
change. Like peacock colors. Would it be possible to dissolve copper into
a solution, possibly using acid or electrolysis, then have the copper be
deposited on metal sheeting so that it could be heated again to get the
iridescent hues?
I've read a lot about electrolytic removal of rust, and it seems pretty
straightforward. This would be (?) a two step process. I'm going to Google
up on it. Anyone ever try it?
Steve
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| Martin H. Eastburn |
| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:42 pm |
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Guest
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The copper clad can carry hundreds of amps when asked upon. The steel can't.
Electrons flow on the skin. A clamp on the outside puts or gets electrons
to or from the ground.
The ground is the important point that the electric company uses at your house.
When you have a power line hit and you have a protective circuit dump the
garbage signal (noise) onto the ground line, you don't want it to float.
Floating puts it on all of the other ground lines in the house.
You save the PC on phase 1, but kill the Plasma TV on Phase 2 - both sharing
the common line in the box and common ground connected to the common line.
Martin
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/
Leo Lichtman wrote:
Quote: Why do you need copper plating? The electrical conduction through a steel
rod is plenty for a ground, and a thin layer of copper on the surface isn;t
going to make a significant difference.
Is it for preventing rust? Galvanizing would probably be better. I say
just bend it. If you need heat, then you will damage the copper in those
areas, but the thing will still make a usable ground which should last for
years. You could paint the damaged parts with some zinc primer, or smear on
some roofing cement.
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http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
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| SteveB |
| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 12:43 am |
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"Vaughn Simon" <vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.FAKE.net> wrote in message
news:SPgSj.145744$D_3.2713@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Quote:
"SteveB" <toquerville,utah@zionvistas> wrote in message
news:h02oe5-grb.ln1@news.infowest.com...
Today, a friend called me who was doing a project. They had a copper
coated steel rod about 5/8" dia. that was to be used as a ground rod for
electrical. They had no means of bending it, as it had to make a couple
of three doglegs to get around concrete.
Usually done right on the job with a 1/2" "hickey bender". That is a
manual bender for 1/2" rigid conduit. Most construction electricians will
have one on their truck somewhere.
Vaughn
Saw a used one today at the pawn shop for $10. Is that a good price?
Looked new.
Steve |
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