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Science Forum Index » Physics Forum » Desert solar energy can supply all world energy needs
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| habshi |
 Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:09 pm |
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Guest
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India too has huge areas - Rajasthan in ten times bigger than
Austria , so just 5% of it could satisfy Indian energy needs for ever.
What is needed is the govt to guarantee a profitable purchase price
and using just a fraction of its $300b reserves would be good enough.
excerpt
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,550544-2,00.html
Every year, 630,000 terawatt hours in the form of solar energy
falls unused on the deserts of the so-called MENA states of the Middle
East and North Africa.
In contrast, Europe consumes just 4,000 terawatt hours of energy a
year -- a mere 0.6 percent of the unused solar energy falling in the
desert.
Powering Europe from the Desert
Europe needs a lot of electricity, but gets little sun. The MENA
countries, on the other hand, get a lot of sun, but consume little
electricity. So, the solution is simple: The south produces
electricity for the north. But how would the enormous energy transfer
work? And how do you turn desert sun into electricity?
It's actually relatively easy. Desertec is low-tech -- no expensive
nuclear fusion reactors, no CO2-emitting coal power plants, no
ultra-thin solar cells. The principle behind it is familiar to every
child who has ever burnt a hole in a sheet of paper with a magnifying
glass. Curved mirrors known as "parabolic trough collectors" collect
sunlight. The energy is used to heat water, generating steam which
then drives turbines and generates electricity. That, in a nutshell,
is how a solar thermal power plant works.
Energy can be harnessed even at night: Excess heat produced during the
day can be stored for several hours in tanks of molten salt. This way
the turbines can produce electricity even when the sun is not shining.
Should the Sahara, therefore, be completely covered with mirrors? No,
says Müller-Steinhagen, producing a picture by way of an answer. It
shows a huge desert in which are drawn three red squares. One square,
roughly the size of Austria, is labelled "world." "If this area was
covered in parabolic trough power plants, enough energy would be
produced to satisfy world demand," he says.
A second square, just a fourth of the size of the first one, is
labelled "EU 25," in a reference to the 25 member states the European
Union had before Bulgaria and Romania joined in 2007. This area could
produce enough solar energy to free Europe from dependence on oil, gas
and coal. The third area is labelled "D," for Germany. It is merely a
small dot.
A Win-Win Situation
Under the plan, the sun-rich states of North Africa and the Middle
East would build mirror power plants in the desert and generate
electricity. As a side benefit, they could use residual heat to power
seawater desalination plants, which would provide drinking water in
large quantities for the arid countries. At the same time they would
obtain a valuable export product: environmentally friendly
electricity.
"The MENA countries are in a three-way win situation," says
Müller-Steinhagen. But Europe also wins: it frees itself from its
dependence (more...) on Russian gas, rising oil prices, radioactive
waste and CO2-spewing coal power plants.
For countries such as Libya, Morocco, Algeria, Sudan and especially
Middle Eastern states, the solar power business could be the start of
a truly sunny future. It could create jobs and build up a sustainable
energy industry, which would bring money into these countries and
enable investment in infrastructure.
In fact, Desertec is no futuristic vision -- the technology already
exists and is tried and tested. Since the mid 1980s, solar thermal
power plants have been operating trouble-free in the US states of
California and Nevada. More plants are currently being built in
southern Spain. And building work has started on solar thermal power
plants in Algeria, Morocco and the United Arab Emirates.
Müller-Steinhagen has calculated what the energy switch would cost: To
generate 15 percent of Europe's electricity demand, around €400
billion ($623 billion) would be needed by 2050 to pay for the
construction of solar thermal power plants. The power plants would
cost €350 billion, while €50 billion would have to be spent on an
electricity grid network to transport electricity from North Africa to
Europe.
This would require a network of high-voltage direct current
transmission lines -- also a technology which exists and is tried and
tested. It is the only way to transport electricity for thousands of
kilometers with relatively little energy loss. |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:09 pm |
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Quote: � � � � India too has huge areas - Rajasthan in ten times bigger than
Austria , so just 5% of it could satisfy Indian energy needs for ever.
What is needed is the govt to guarantee a profitable purchase price
and using just a fraction of its $300b reserves would be good enough.
Great idea as long as you don't need electricity at night (when
the normal peak demand occurs) and don't mind paying 3 to 5 times
what you are paying now.
"Solar" could mean algae fuel, biodiesel or bio ethanol. Gas turbine
power plants could run at night on either liquid.
Some of the claims are over 30,000 gallons/acre, higher than solar
thermal.
Bret Cahill |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:55 pm |
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Quote: ??? ??? ??? ??? India too has huge areas - Rajasthan in ten times bigger than
Austria , so just 5% of it could satisfy Indian energy needs for ever.
What is needed is the govt to guarantee a profitable purchase price
and using just a fraction of its $300b reserves would be good enough..
Great idea as long as you don't need electricity at night (when
the normal peak demand occurs) and don't mind paying 3 to 5 times
what you are paying now.
"Solar" could mean algae fuel, biodiesel or bio ethanol. �Gas turbine
power plants could run at night on either liquid.
Not if you were to actually read what was posted before reacting.
How would that change algae diesel from solar?
Bret Cahill |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:25 pm |
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In sci.physics habshi <habshi@anony.com> wrote:
Quote: India too has huge areas - Rajasthan in ten times bigger than
Austria , so just 5% of it could satisfy Indian energy needs for ever.
What is needed is the govt to guarantee a profitable purchase price
and using just a fraction of its $300b reserves would be good enough.
Great idea as long as you don't need electricity at night (when
the normal peak demand occurs) and don't mind paying 3 to 5 times
what you are paying now.
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:35 pm |
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In sci.physics BretCahill@peoplepc.com wrote:
Quote: ??? ??? ??? ??? India too has huge areas - Rajasthan in ten times bigger than
Austria , so just 5% of it could satisfy Indian energy needs for ever.
What is needed is the govt to guarantee a profitable purchase price
and using just a fraction of its $300b reserves would be good enough.
Great idea as long as you don't need electricity at night (when
the normal peak demand occurs) and don't mind paying 3 to 5 times
what you are paying now.
"Solar" could mean algae fuel, biodiesel or bio ethanol. Gas turbine
power plants could run at night on either liquid.
Not if you were to actually read what was posted before reacting.
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
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| Robert J. Kolker |
| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:23 am |
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BretCahill@peoplepc.com wrote:
Quote:
"Solar" could mean algae fuel, biodiesel or bio ethanol. Gas turbine
power plants could run at night on either liquid.
Some of the claims are over 30,000 gallons/acre, higher than solar
thermal.
Wind energy is also solar energy. Even hydroelectric energy is solar
energy. It takes evaporation of the seas to produce the vapor which
condenses into rain to feed the rivers.
Bob Kolker |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:25 am |
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In sci.physics BretCahill@peoplepc.com wrote:
Quote: ??? ??? ??? ??? India too has huge areas - Rajasthan in ten times bigger than
Austria , so just 5% of it could satisfy Indian energy needs for ever.
What is needed is the govt to guarantee a profitable purchase price
and using just a fraction of its $300b reserves would be good enough.
Great idea as long as you don't need electricity at night (when
the normal peak demand occurs) and don't mind paying 3 to 5 times
what you are paying now.
"Solar" could mean algae fuel, biodiesel or bio ethanol. ???Gas turbine
power plants could run at night on either liquid.
Not if you were to actually read what was posted before reacting.
How would that change algae diesel from solar?
You are babbling.
The original post was about solar steam boilers powering conventional
steam turbines.
"Algae diesel from solar" is about as relevant as plans for a solar
hot dog cooker.
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
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| Robert J. Kolker |
| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 11:59 am |
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Guest
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jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
Quote: In sci.physics BretCahill@peoplepc.com wrote:
??? ??? ??? ??? India too has huge areas - Rajasthan in ten times bigger than
Austria , so just 5% of it could satisfy Indian energy needs for ever.
What is needed is the govt to guarantee a profitable purchase price
and using just a fraction of its $300b reserves would be good enough.
Great idea as long as you don't need electricity at night (when
the normal peak demand occurs) and don't mind paying 3 to 5 times
what you are paying now.
"Solar" could mean algae fuel, biodiesel or bio ethanol. ???Gas turbine
power plants could run at night on either liquid.
Not if you were to actually read what was posted before reacting.
How would that change algae diesel from solar?
You are babbling.
The original post was about solar steam boilers powering conventional
steam turbines.
"Algae diesel from solar" is about as relevant as plans for a solar
hot dog cooker.
It is sunshine that makes algae grow. In a sense all energy derived from
the burning of plant matter is indirectly solar energy.
Bob Kolker
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| Guest |
| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 12:15 pm |
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In sci.physics Robert J. Kolker <bobkolker@comcast.net> wrote:
Quote: jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
In sci.physics BretCahill@peoplepc.com wrote:
??? ??? ??? ??? India too has huge areas - Rajasthan in ten times bigger than
Austria , so just 5% of it could satisfy Indian energy needs for ever.
What is needed is the govt to guarantee a profitable purchase price
and using just a fraction of its $300b reserves would be good enough.
Great idea as long as you don't need electricity at night (when
the normal peak demand occurs) and don't mind paying 3 to 5 times
what you are paying now.
"Solar" could mean algae fuel, biodiesel or bio ethanol. ???Gas turbine
power plants could run at night on either liquid.
Not if you were to actually read what was posted before reacting.
How would that change algae diesel from solar?
You are babbling.
The original post was about solar steam boilers powering conventional
steam turbines.
"Algae diesel from solar" is about as relevant as plans for a solar
hot dog cooker.
It is sunshine that makes algae grow. In a sense all energy derived from
the burning of plant matter is indirectly solar energy.
It is sunshine that makes the crab grass in my front lawn grow.
It is sunsine that makes the paint on my garage door fade.
It is sunshine that makes sundials work.
"Sunshine on my shoulders makes me happy
Sunshine in my eyes can make me cry
Sunshine on the water looks so lovely
Sunshine almost always makes me high"
All these things are just as relevant to the original post, i.e. not
at all.
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
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