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Science Forum Index » Energy Forum » Electrifying UP's Main Line In the SE Desert
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| Bret Cahill |
 Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:59 pm |
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Seventy 4 locomotive trains / day. That's several hundred megawatts,
lots of wasted $ because the grid is now much cheaper than diesel and
getting cheaper by the day.
Someone needs to tip off the hot shots in San Francisco that they can
save big bucks by electrifying their main line.
Don't even take the engines out of the locomotives. Just start
hanging some wire.
Bret Cahill |
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| Bret Cahill |
| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:33 pm |
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Seventy 4 locomotive trains / day. �That's hundreds of megawatts, half
a million dollars/day wasted on fuel because the grid is now much
cheaper than diesel and it is getting cheaper by the day.
Someone needs to tip off the hot shots in San Francisco that they can
save big bucks by electrifying their main line.
Don't even take the engines out of the locomotives. �Just start
hanging some wire.
Bret Cahill |
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| Damon Hill |
| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:47 am |
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Bret Cahill <BretCahill@aol.com> wrote in news:40083150-f813-48a3-9aee-
1c6fd711a74e@y22g2000prd.googlegroups.com:
Quote: Seventy 4 locomotive trains / day. That's several hundred megawatts,
lots of wasted $ because the grid is now much cheaper than diesel and
getting cheaper by the day.
Someone needs to tip off the hot shots in San Francisco that they can
save big bucks by electrifying their main line.
Don't even take the engines out of the locomotives. Just start
hanging some wire.
Not gonna be that simple, not remotely. Each locomotive is good for
about six megawatts, by the way. Figure on digging up additional
generating capacity in the multigigawatt range spread out over more
than a thousand miles to make that transcon corridor really hum.
It's been considered. The very high capital costs of electrification
have discouraged the idea in the past. The Milwaukee Road had nearly
700 miles of mainline electrification in Montana and Washington, all of
which came down in the 60s.
But the times they do change...
--Damon, cross-posting to misc.transport.rail.americas |
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| Eeyore |
| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:26 am |
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Bret Cahill wrote:
Quote: Seventy 4 locomotive trains / day. That's several hundred megawatts,
lots of wasted $ because the grid is now much cheaper than diesel and
getting cheaper by the day.
Someone needs to tip off the hot shots in San Francisco that they can
save big bucks by electrifying their main line.
Don't even take the engines out of the locomotives. Just start
hanging some wire.
There's a LOT more to it than that. Have you any idea how expensive it is
to electrify a line btw ? And where are the power substations every 30
miles or so to power it ?
Graham |
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| Bret Cahill |
| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:44 am |
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Quote: Seventy 4 locomotive trains / day. �That's several hundred megawatts,
lots of wasted $ because the grid is now much cheaper than diesel and
getting cheaper by the day.
Someone needs to tip off the hot shots in San Francisco that they can
save big bucks by electrifying their main line.
Don't even take the engines out of the locomotives. �Just start
hanging some wire.
Bret Cahill
It will be a lot more cost effective for large fuel users like railroads and
airlines to begin to grow their own fuel and thus become self sufficient and
free of OPEC, general energy markets and runaway energy prices.
Long Beach and LA don't want UP's high NOx engines smogging up the
air.
Quote: For example, a consortium of railroad companies could finance several large
algal biofuel farms and processing plants in the desert southwest. These
farms could produce millions of gallons of biodiesel on several thousand
acres of otherwise desert waste land. They would use recycled water and
modern growing techniques.
This kind of an investment would be more cost effective and self sustaining
than electrifying existing roadways and modifying their plant and equipment.
Furthermore, it would not depend on the grid or coal generated electricity..
I suspect we will begin to see this kind of venture in the near future.
Airlines are talking about similar ideas and trucking companies should also
be interested.
.
Supposedly UPS pays billions a year for fuel.
Bret Cahill |
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| Bret Cahill |
| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:11 am |
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On Apr 29, 11:02�am, "Bob Eld" <nsmontas...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote: "Bret Cahill" <BretCah...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:993fe5ca-d3d8-4a6d-8e6d-069430246024@u36g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Seventy 4 locomotive trains / day. ?That's several hundred megawatts,
lots of wasted $ because the grid is now much cheaper than diesel and
getting cheaper by the day.
Someone needs to tip off the hot shots in San Francisco that they can
save big bucks by electrifying their main line.
Don't even take the engines out of the locomotives. ?Just start
hanging some wire.
Bret Cahill
It will be a lot more cost effective for large fuel users like railroads
and
airlines to begin to grow their own fuel and thus become self sufficient
and
free of OPEC, general energy markets and runaway energy prices.
Long Beach and LA don't want UP's high NOx engines smogging up the
air.
For example, a consortium of railroad companies could finance several
large
algal biofuel farms and processing plants in the desert southwest. These
farms could produce millions of gallons of biodiesel on several thousand
acres of otherwise desert waste land. They would use recycled water and
modern growing techniques.
This kind of an investment would be more cost effective and self
sustaining
than electrifying existing roadways and modifying their plant and
equipment.
Furthermore, it would not depend on the grid or coal generated
electricity.
I suspect we will begin to see this kind of venture in the near future.
Airlines are talking about similar ideas and trucking companies should
also
be interested.
.
Supposedly UPS pays billions a year for fuel.
Bret Cahill
Yeah I know, Southern California doesn't believe in generating it's own
power but would rather run long extension cords across the desert to plug
into COAL fired electricity in the four corners region. Hypocrites if you
ask me. The "smog", CO2, SO2 and other pollutants are then someone else's
problem. So. Cal. then claims "CLEAN" electricity to power it's cities.
If NOx and other pollutants are a problem in Long Beach, they should be
scrubbed out or converted locally in Long Beach not transferred to New
Mexico and Colorado. The present system is the height of absurdity and
abdication of responsibility.
I guess one could add UPS to a home grown fuel consortium.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text - |
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| Bret Cahill |
| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:16 am |
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Quote: Seventy 4 locomotive trains / day. ?That's several hundred megawatts,
lots of wasted $ because the grid is now much cheaper than diesel and
getting cheaper by the day.
Someone needs to tip off the hot shots in San Francisco that they can
save big bucks by electrifying their main line.
Don't even take the engines out of the locomotives. ?Just start
hanging some wire.
Bret Cahill
It will be a lot more cost effective for large fuel users like railroads
and
airlines to begin to grow their own fuel and thus become self sufficient
and
free of OPEC, general energy markets and runaway energy prices.
Long Beach and LA don't want UP's high NOx engines smogging up the
air.
For example, a consortium of railroad companies could finance several
large
algal biofuel farms and processing plants in the desert southwest. These
farms could produce millions of gallons of biodiesel on several thousand
acres of otherwise desert waste land. They would use recycled water and
modern growing techniques.
This kind of an investment would be more cost effective and self
sustaining
than electrifying existing roadways and modifying their plant and
equipment.
Furthermore, it would not depend on the grid or coal generated
electricity.
I suspect we will begin to see this kind of venture in the near future.
Airlines are talking about similar ideas and trucking companies should
also
be interested.
.
Supposedly UPS pays billions a year for fuel.
Bret Cahill
Yeah I know, Southern California doesn't believe in generating it's own
power but would rather run long extension cords across the desert to plug
into COAL fired electricity in the four corners region. Hypocrites if you
ask me. The "smog", CO2, SO2 and other pollutants are then someone else's
problem. So. Cal. then claims "CLEAN" electricity to power it's cities.
S. California has been exemplary building solar thermal and geo
thermal.
Quote: If NOx and other pollutants are a problem in Long Beach, they should be
scrubbed out or converted locally in Long Beach not transferred to New
Mexico and Colorado.
You can't put scrubbers on diesel locomotives.
Quote: The present system is the height of absurdity and
abdication of responsibility.
I guess one could add UPS to a home grown fuel consortium.
Lots of opportunities. Apparently everyone was in some kind of state
of denial.
Bret Cahill |
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| Bob Eld |
| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:58 am |
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Guest
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"Bret Cahill" <BretCahill@aol.com> wrote in message
news:40083150-f813-48a3-9aee-1c6fd711a74e@y22g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
Quote: Seventy 4 locomotive trains / day. That's several hundred megawatts,
lots of wasted $ because the grid is now much cheaper than diesel and
getting cheaper by the day.
Someone needs to tip off the hot shots in San Francisco that they can
save big bucks by electrifying their main line.
Don't even take the engines out of the locomotives. Just start
hanging some wire.
Bret Cahill
It will be a lot more cost effective for large fuel users like railroads and
airlines to begin to grow their own fuel and thus become self sufficient and
free of OPEC, general energy markets and runaway energy prices.
For example, a consortium of railroad companies could finance several large
algal biofuel farms and processing plants in the desert southwest. These
farms could produce millions of gallons of biodiesel on several thousand
acres of otherwise desert waste land. They would use recycled water and
modern growing techniques.
This kind of an investment would be more cost effective and self sustaining
than electrifying existing roadways and modifying their plant and equipment.
Furthermore, it would not depend on the grid or coal generated electricity.
I suspect we will begin to see this kind of venture in the near future.
Airlines are talking about similar ideas and trucking companies should also
be interested.
.. |
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| Bret Cahill |
| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:50 pm |
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Quote: You can't put scrubbers on diesel locomotives.
cut....
Bret Cahill
Why not?
There isn't enough room.
Quote: It would certainly be a hell of a lot cheaper that trying to convert the
whole system to electric.
Not if it takes 15 years for the bio diesel to slow spiraling costs.
Bret Cahill |
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| Bob Eld |
| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:02 pm |
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Guest
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"Bret Cahill" <BretCahill@aol.com> wrote in message
news:993fe5ca-d3d8-4a6d-8e6d-069430246024@u36g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Quote: Seventy 4 locomotive trains / day. ?That's several hundred megawatts,
lots of wasted $ because the grid is now much cheaper than diesel and
getting cheaper by the day.
Someone needs to tip off the hot shots in San Francisco that they can
save big bucks by electrifying their main line.
Don't even take the engines out of the locomotives. ?Just start
hanging some wire.
Bret Cahill
It will be a lot more cost effective for large fuel users like railroads
and
airlines to begin to grow their own fuel and thus become self sufficient
and
free of OPEC, general energy markets and runaway energy prices.
Long Beach and LA don't want UP's high NOx engines smogging up the
air.
Quote: For example, a consortium of railroad companies could finance several
large
algal biofuel farms and processing plants in the desert southwest. These
farms could produce millions of gallons of biodiesel on several thousand
acres of otherwise desert waste land. They would use recycled water and
modern growing techniques.
This kind of an investment would be more cost effective and self
sustaining
than electrifying existing roadways and modifying their plant and
equipment.
Furthermore, it would not depend on the grid or coal generated
electricity.
I suspect we will begin to see this kind of venture in the near future.
Airlines are talking about similar ideas and trucking companies should
also
be interested.
.
Supposedly UPS pays billions a year for fuel.
Bret Cahill
Yeah I know, Southern California doesn't believe in generating it's own
power but would rather run long extension cords across the desert to plug
into COAL fired electricity in the four corners region. Hypocrites if you
ask me. The "smog", CO2, SO2 and other pollutants are then someone else's
problem. So. Cal. then claims "CLEAN" electricity to power it's cities.
If NOx and other pollutants are a problem in Long Beach, they should be
scrubbed out or converted locally in Long Beach not transferred to New
Mexico and Colorado. The present system is the height of absurdity and
abdication of responsibility.
I guess one could add UPS to a home grown fuel consortium. |
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| Bob Eld |
| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:53 pm |
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Guest
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"Bret Cahill" <BretCahill@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3f16768d-e216-41c5-a0ce-c914a863fefe@s33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
Snip.....
Quote: You can't put scrubbers on diesel locomotives.
cut....
Bret Cahill
Why not?
It would certainly be a hell of a lot cheaper that trying to convert the
whole system to electric.
What you really mean is that they don't want to incur the costs of scrubbers
and catalytic converters not that they can't do it.
In fact, one of the reasons for not using catalytic converters on diesel
engines is the high sulfur content of petroleum diesel which poisons the
catalysts.
Biodiesel has no sulfur, negating this whole line of reasoning. |
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