On Mar 25, 9:17�am, Quadibloc <jsav...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
Back in an earlier thread on this subject, I've noted, as another
reply here already does, that his policy is not as bad as others which
could be proposed. There does not seem to be any broad support for
sending astronauts even to the Moon, never mind Mars, unfortunately.

What can you expect, really? Many liberals took one look at G. W.
Bush's space initiative, and ran off screaming...

Aieee! Aieee! Shrub-Ziggurat! The White Elephant that squandered a
thousand billions!


Actually, it was the fact that during the Bush administration a change
to the NASA charter removed any reference to Earth observation; that
had liberals screaming. Further, when you look at the fact that Bush's
VSE is similar to Bush Sr.'s SEI and the latter was never implemented.
As I have stated before, why should we believe Bush Jr. WRT space
exploration if his father was not to be believed?

Both sure as hell got their wars though. So, it is a matter of
commitment. Both were committed to war, based upon results, and both
are NOT committed to space, based upon results.

Eric

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:50:09 -0700 (PDT), Eric Chomko

pne.cho...@comcast.net> wrote:
On Apr 21, 12:29 pm, Michael Gallagher <mikejo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:09:47 -0700 (PDT), Eric Chomko

...... any
more that we have made progress with W's VSE ....

????  And what did you expect after four years?  Orion isn't supposed
to have a manned flight until 2015.  So what was supposed to have
happened by '08?  If anything?  

You tell me! Should we have NOTHING after four years? Shouldn't we
have some sort of real metric of success?

And what would you consider a "real metric of success"?  

Did you exepct a manned Moon landing by now?  

Why, when no one said it would happen by now?

 What do you think should have happened by now to be
considered successful?  If nothing that has happened to date --
planning to retire the shuttle and the work done on Ares and Orion --
doesn't count, what would?  YOU tell ME, because YOU are the one who
is making these statements and YOU are the one who is so certain
nothing will come of it!  

..... It will take a non-Texas
politician to get them to show results as the Bushes didn't care.
Which was my very point.

Prove it.  I want hard evidence that the Bushes just see SEI/VSE as a
way to scam money for Texas, and by that I mean, THEY ACTUCALLY TOLD
SOMEONE THAT AND THE QUOTE CAN BE VERIFIED.  You're very good at
pulling together a conspiracy theory, but I want the smoking gun.

And it's on you to provide it, because you are making the accusations.

On Apr 27, 12:40 pm, Michael Gallagher <mikejo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
And what would you consider a "real metric of success"?  

Some sort of demo of something related to Orion or Ares.

On Apr 27, 12:40 pm, Michael Gallagher <mikejo...@yahoo.com> wrote:



On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:50:09 -0700 (PDT), Eric Chomko

pne.cho...@comcast.net> wrote:
On Apr 21, 12:29 pm, Michael Gallagher <mikejo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:09:47 -0700 (PDT), Eric Chomko

...... any
more that we have made progress with W's VSE ....

???? And what did you expect after four years? Orion isn't supposed
to have a manned flight until 2015. So what was supposed to have
happened by '08? If anything?

You tell me! Should we have NOTHING after four years? Shouldn't we
have some sort of real metric of success?

And what would you consider a "real metric of success"?

Some sort of demo of something related to Orion or Ares.

Did you exepct a manned Moon landing by now?

No.

Why, when no one said it would happen by now?

What should have happned by now?

What do you think should have happened by now to be
considered successful? If nothing that has happened to date --
planning to retire the shuttle and the work done on Ares and Orion --
doesn't count, what would? YOU tell ME, because YOU are the one who
is making these statements and YOU are the one who is so certain
nothing will come of it!

I never said nothing would come of it. I said that President Bush
lacks true commitment to space as compared to his true commitment to
war.

..... It will take a non-Texas
politician to get them to show results as the Bushes didn't care.
Which was my very point.

Prove it. I want hard evidence that the Bushes just see SEI/VSE as a
way to scam money for Texas, and by that I mean, THEY ACTUCALLY TOLD
SOMEONE THAT AND THE QUOTE CAN BE VERIFIED. You're very good at
pulling together a conspiracy theory, but I want the smoking gun.

No damn results! Yet everyone still is getting paid. I recall when JPL
had those Mars failures in the 90s everyone went nuts over at NASA
from DC to CA, yet when TX screws up HQ is mum. It surely appears that
HQ is scared of JSC. No conspiracy just an observation.

And it's on you to provide it, because you are making the accusations.

It is back to the results. There are none. And yet there is no plans
for a re-org or anything, just business as usual, yet what are we
seeing out of TX? I think they are too busy creating material for
Bush's war to take space seriously. Heck during Vietnam at least we
still had a manned space program working at a nice steady clip and
much of that out of TX. Look at us now. And you claim to be a Democrat
yet here you are apologizing for Republicans and the Bush
administration yet again.

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 09:58:33 -0700 (PDT), Eric Chomko

pne.cho...@comcast.net> wrote:
On Apr 27, 12:40 pm, Michael Gallagher <mikejo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
And what would you consider a "real metric of success"?

Some sort of demo of something related to Orion or Ares.

Let's see now ...

The latest news is they recently did a test of the Launch Abort System
Jettison Motor. As of this posting it was on the main page at ...

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/constellation/main/index.html

If it's off the home page, it will be down in recent news.

A mockup of Orion has arrived at the Dryden Research Center:

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/constellation/orion/orion-dryden.html

I THINK this will be the flgith test article used on the launch abort
system tests in New Mexico -- probably at White Sands -- later this
year.

The Ares roll control system is being tested:

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/constellation/ares/aresrocstest.html

If the bottom two links give you problems, just go to NASA's home page
and find your way to Constellation thorugh the "Moon Mars" button.

Aviation Week has also reported developments on the vibration issue.
Launch abort tests are supposed to happen in New Mexico this year.
And the Ares 1-X (or whatever it is) is supposed to launch in 2009.

Not on the evening news, I know, but there if you know where to look
and take the time to do it.

If none of the above count as "Some sort of demo of something related
to Orion or Ares," what would?

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