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| Guest |
 Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:46 am |
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can anyone PRECISELY translate the following sentence into English:
Quote: δεî τον Ήρακλέα κρατεîν τόν τ' εν Νεμέᾳ λέοντα τούς τε γίγαντας τά καθ' Έλλάδα τέρατα.
and the follwoing into Ancient Greek:
Quote: As a result of doing wrong, but seeming virtuous, the unjust man wins for himself wealth and honour.
Thanks |
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| Duan Vukoti |
| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:19 am |
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On Apr 27, 2:46 pm, stefan_ste...@hotmail.com wrote:
Quote: can anyone PRECISELY translate the following sentence into English:
δεî τον Ήρακλέα κρατεîν τόν τ' εν Νεμέᾳ λέοντα τούς τε γίγαντας τά καθ' Έλλάδα τέρατα.
Ovo bi se moglo prevesti kao: ...nužno je da Herkul savlada nemejskog
lava kao i gigante i Grčke zveri.
Roughly: ...It is crucial for Heracles to defeat the Nemean Lion as
well as the giants and monsters of Greece.
Cf. Serbian krotiti (tame); krotitelj lavova (a lion tamer); also
τέρας/teras (monster; probably related to Serb. zverka, tur, stvor;
Eng. deer; Ger. Tier; Greek δορκας, θηρ wild beast; ζορκάς).
Quote: and the follwoing into Ancient Greek:
As a result of doing wrong, but seeming virtuous, the unjust man wins for himself wealth and honour.
Can't help you here...
DV |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:09 pm |
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On Apr 28, 1:19 am, Dušan Vukotić <dusan.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
Quote: On Apr 27, 2:46 pm, stefan_ste...@hotmail.com wrote:
can anyone PRECISELY translate the following sentence into English:
δεî τον Ήρακλέα κρατεîν τόν τ' εν Νεμέᾳ λέοντα τούς τε γίγαντας τά καθ' Έλλάδα τέρατα.
Ovo bi se moglo prevesti kao: ...nužno je da Herkul savlada nemejskog
lava kao i gigante i Grčke zveri.
Roughly: ...It is crucial for Heracles to defeat the Nemean Lion as
well as the giants and monsters of Greece.
Cf. Serbian krotiti (tame); krotitelj lavova (a lion tamer); also
τέρας/teras (monster; probably related to Serb. zverka, tur, stvor;
Eng. deer; Ger. Tier; Greek δορκας, θηρ wild beast; ζορκάς).
and the follwoing into Ancient Greek:
As a result of doing wrong, but seeming virtuous, the unjust man wins for himself wealth and honour.
Can't help you here...
DV
thanks...i thought it was something like that but i wanted to be sure |
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| ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com |
| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:14 pm |
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Guest
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On Apr 27, 5:46 am, stefan_ste...@hotmail.com wrote:
Quote: can anyone PRECISELY translate the following sentence into English:
δεî τον Ήρακλέα κρατεîν τόν τ' εν Νεμέᾳ λέοντα τούς τε γίγαντας τά καθ' Έλλάδα τέρατα.
Was a double lambda a geminate/ long consonant?
Quote: and the follwoing into Ancient Greek:
As a result of doing wrong, but seeming virtuous, the unjust man wins for himself wealth and honour.
Thanks
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| mb |
| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:11 pm |
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On Apr 27, 4:14 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
<ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote: On Apr 27, 5:46 am, stefan_ste...@hotmail.com wrote:
can anyone PRECISELY translate the following sentence into English:
δεî τον Ήρακλέα κρατεîν τόν τ' εν Νεμέᾳ λέοντα τούς τε γίγαντας τά καθ' Έλλάδα τέρατα.
Was a double lambda a geminate/ long consonant?
Long. No more, though.
Dushan surpised me.
As for the precision, it is not *precise to translate deî by "it is
crucial". Just expresses "should-or-must". |
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| Peter T. Daniels |
| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:28 pm |
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On Apr 27, 8:11 pm, mb <azyth...@gmail.com> wrote:
Quote: On Apr 27, 4:14 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Apr 27, 5:46 am, stefan_ste...@hotmail.com wrote:
can anyone PRECISELY translate the following sentence into English:
δεî τον Ήρακλέα κρατεîν τόν τ' εν Νεμέᾳ λέοντα τούς τε γίγαντας τά καθ' Έλλάδα τέρατα.
Was a double lambda a geminate/ long consonant?
Long. No more, though.
Dushan surpised me.
By translating into Serbian (presumably) rather than the requested
English?
Quote: As for the precision, it is not *precise to translate deî by "it is
crucial". Just expresses "should-or-must".
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| ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com |
| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:49 pm |
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Guest
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On Apr 27, 5:11 pm, mb <azyth...@gmail.com> wrote:
Quote: On Apr 27, 4:14 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Apr 27, 5:46 am, stefan_ste...@hotmail.com wrote:
can anyone PRECISELY translate the following sentence into English:
δεî τον Ήρακλέα κρατεîν τόν τ' εν Νεμέᾳ λέοντα τούς τε γίγαντας τά καθ' Έλλάδα τέρατα.
As for the precision, it is not *precise to translate deî by "it is
crucial". Just expresses "should-or-must".
According to this, ton goes with an accusative masculine.
http://www.monachos.net/greek/8_definite_articles.shtml
It seems that with the sentence having "ton Heralkia", it would
translate to "It is necessary/ crucial for Heraklia" whereas if it had
"ho Heraklia", it would translate to "Herakles must".
Can you point out something wrong with this analysis? |
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| ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com |
| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:50 pm |
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Guest
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On Apr 27, 8:28 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
Quote: On Apr 27, 8:11 pm, mb <azyth...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dushan surpised me.
By translating into Serbian (presumably) rather than the requested
English?
He used Serbian as an intermediate language and did give the requested
English translation. |
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| mb |
| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:32 pm |
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Guest
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On Apr 27, 8:28pm, "Peter T. Daniels"
Quote: mb:
Dushan surpised me.
By translating into Serbian (presumably) rather than the requested
English?
No no, of course he'd do it into Serbocroatobosnomontenegrin first. By
actually understanding what he read!
Also, it looks as if Serbian (like Turkish and some other area
languages that have long been in direct contact with Greek) goes with
Herkul for Heracles, ie it imported its main mythologic terminology
very late (19 C) from the West, replacing an earlier layer of borrowed
terms by what now are inkhorn words.
Question to Dushan: Are you aware of an earlier, popular pre-19th C
layer of mythologic borrowings in Serbian (like for example Irakli for
Heracles, Adi for hell or death, etc?) Please avoid Bel-Gon references. |
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| mb |
| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:44 pm |
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On Apr 27, 8:49 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
Quote:
δεî τον Ήρακλέα κρατεîν τόν τ' εν Νεμέᾳ λέοντα τούς τε γίγαντας τά καθ' Έλλάδα τέρατα.
As for the precision, it is not *precise to translate deî by "it is
crucial". Just expresses "should-or-must".
According to this, ton goes with an accusative masculine.http://www.monachos.net/greek/8_definite_articles.shtml
It seems that with the sentence having "ton Heralkia", it would
translate to "It is necessary/ crucial for Heraklia" whereas if it had
"ho Heraklia", it would translate to "Herakles must".
Can you point out something wrong with this analysis?
I suppose I must.
Not "for Heraklia" but "for Heraklès": "Herakléa" is the accusative of
Heraklès.
No "crucial" here, really. Deî would best translate, in this sentence
setting, as "H. should". So, it is a must for, or it is proper for, or
it is expected from H. that he should etc.
"*ho *Heraklía / Herakléa" is impossible; the definite article always
take the nominative.
"Ton Herakléa deî" already translates "H. must" because the verb is a
different verb than the one that you use in English, with a different
pronominal structure. Some verbs are middle-reflexive or passive in
Greek that are transitive and active in English, some impersonal in
English are not so in Greek, etc. Just as "ton Hrakléa" translates "to
Heraklès" or "for Heraklès", not -éa. So translation has nothing to do
with your question. I suppose the question involves something further
to do with structure, but translationwise that's all. |
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| mb |
| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:03 pm |
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Guest
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On Apr 27, 10:43pm, "Paul J Kriha"
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Quote: It's a well worn phrase, how sure are you Dus^an did get
the translation from a Serbian Greek textbook?
How can I be sure without even knowing Serbian? I don't suppose that
Bulgarian nursery rhymes learnt before age 3 would qualify. |
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| Duan Vukoti |
| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:36 pm |
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Guest
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On Apr 28, 6:32 am, mb <azyth...@gmail.com> wrote:
Quote: On Apr 27, 8:28 pm, "Peter T. Daniels"
mb:
Dushan surpised me.
By translating into Serbian (presumably) rather than the requested
English?
No no, of course he'd do it into Serbocroatobosnomontenegrin first. By
actually understanding what he read!
Also, it looks as if Serbian (like Turkish and some other area
languages that have long been in direct contact with Greek) goes with
Herkul for Heracles, ie it imported its main mythologic terminology
very late (19 C) from the West, replacing an earlier layer of borrowed
terms by what now are inkhorn words.
Question to Dushan: Are you aware of an earlier, popular pre-19th C
layer of mythologic borrowings in Serbian (like for example Irakli for
Heracles, Adi for hell or death, etc?) Please avoid Bel-Gon references.
Ad in Serbian (underworld, hell). P.P. Njegoš (Serbian 19th century
poet: "U ad mi se svijet pretvorio" ("My world turned to hell"; ad
Hades)
Herkul, Herkules, Heraklo, Iraklije, Herkules - you can use any of
these names in Serbian.
There are "modern" Serbian names - Gorčilo, Relja - that correspond
well with the Greek name Ηρακλής/Herakles (also there are the Serbian
"herculean" surnames like Herak, Herić, Erić, Gerić, Grkljanović,
Rakelić, Rogulić etc.).
DV |
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| Paul J Kriha |
| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:43 am |
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Guest
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"mb" <azythos2@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0e6611f8-fee7-4410-809b-9d7b690f9f9f@k1g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
Quote: On Apr 27, 4:14 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Apr 27, 5:46 am, stefan_ste...@hotmail.com wrote:
can anyone PRECISELY translate the following sentence into English:
δεî τον Ήρακλέα κρατεîν τόν τ' εν Νεμέᾳ λέοντα τούς τε γίγαντας τά καθ' Έλλάδα τέρατα.
Was a double lambda a geminate/ long consonant?
Long. No more, though.
Dushan surpised me.
As for the precision, it is not *precise to translate deî by "it is
crucial". Just expresses "should-or-must".
As far as I understand Serbian, it was still (more) correctly
translated into Serbian with "..nužno je..".
It's a well worn phrase, how sure are you Dus^an did get
the translation from a Serbian Greek textbook?
pjk |
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| Paul J Kriha |
| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:46 am |
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Guest
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"Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:51b6b65d-1d61-4be0-a773-9f536320ff57@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Quote: On Apr 27, 8:11 pm, mb <azyth...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 27, 4:14 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Apr 27, 5:46 am, stefan_ste...@hotmail.com wrote:
can anyone PRECISELY translate the following sentence into English:
δεî τον Ήρακλέα κρατεîν τόν τ' εν Νεμέᾳ λέοντα τούς τε γίγαντας τά καθ' Έλλάδα τέρατα.
Was a double lambda a geminate/ long consonant?
Long. No more, though.
Dushan surpised me.
By translating into Serbian (presumably) rather than the requested
English?
Tsk, tsk, Peter.
Two lines below the Serbian he rendered the English version.
pjk
Quote: As for the precision, it is not *precise to translate deî by "it is
crucial". Just expresses "should-or-must".
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| Duan Vukoti |
| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:15 am |
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Guest
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On Apr 28, 5:28am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
Quote: Dushan surpised me.
By translating into Serbian (presumably) rather than the requested
English?
It seems you are allergic to the word "Serbian"... don't be, it is the
same word as German, or Roman (all are coming from the same Xur-Bel-
Gon basis).
Don't be stupid - be smart!
DV |
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